Have you ever used your sidearm in self defense?

[bruss01]

Sarge83 said:
Once, cleared leather and dropped the safety while at an ATM. The threat saw me do it and decided he didn't want to finish what he started, he stopped and didn't move a muscle. I concluded my transaction and left quickly.

The obvious question this raises is, what did that person do that made him appear a threat?

One of the things that gets me is, if someone's walking up and looks like they may be going to use the ATM next to the one you're using, how would you know they were a threat until you reached around and felt the knife in your back? Why would they announce if their only purpose is to get your money and your car keys?

Now certainly, if a guy comes up and says "gimmie all your money!" while brandishing a knife, he's a threat. But some guy not all that well dressed who simply avoids making eye contact, who plausibly might be there on legitimate business of his own? Do you trust a "vibe" and be willing to pay for it with your freedom if it happens to simply be a case of nerves or mild paranoia?

Like I said, would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator.

 

[NWdude83]

Not going to go into detail, but I've come close to "flashing my piece" once or twice to drivers suffering from extreme SUV road rage. I ended up calling the fuzz though. Decided it wasn't worth it.

 

[NWdude83]

I know it sounds cheezy, but I am thinking about putting one of those stickers on the back of my car that reads, "Warning: driver only carries $20 worth of ammo".

 

[rainbowbob]

I...would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator.

I think that is an important question. I too would like to hear more about that from those who have been in that position. Not to second guess or criticize, but to better calibrate my own creep-o-meter.

 

[JWarren]

I...would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator.

I'd love to be able to tell what set mine off-- but doing so probably paints me as rather dull-witted for my lack of such.

In the cases I listed, there really wasn't anything per se. In one, a couple guys are tearing my sister's clothes off and she is crying-- good indications that something may be wrong. Another, a guy is hitting my sister-- same thing. Etc.... etc...etc...

The only one where I showed any potentiall situational awareness was the last-- and that one wasn't rocket science. There's no way I would confront a trespasser deep in the woods on an deserted road in the middle of the night without means of protection handy.

While I do consider myself to be much more situationally-aware now, it primarily stems from my diminished faith in many of our society to have any moral compass.

-- John

 

[Treo]

QUOTE "Do you trust a "vibe" and be willing to pay for it with your freedom if it happens to simply be a case of nerves or mild paranoia?"

QUOTE: "Like I said, would love to hear in many of these cases what sets of your "threat" indicator".

For me there would have to be an overt threat before I actually drew. But I'd be at defcon 2 as soon as they, in any way, invaded my space.

I'm getting to the point in life that all I really want is to be left alone, when some random stranger goes out of his way to interact W/ me I start to wonder why and my guard tends to go up.

 

[cowssurf]

Excellent posts. Keep them coming. Just to clarify something: It is not brandishing if your life or limb is threatened. But if you pull out your gun and then the threat disappears, you have no legal argument to fire your weapon. It is illogical for any court, judge, or jury to assume that a deadly threat that appears cannot disappear. And while there are definitely bizarre travesties of justice resulting from self defense trials involving guns, if you pulled your gun and the threat ceased and then you fired, you have committed a crime. All of these posters who've described scenarios where they pulled their gun in self defense but didn't have to pull the trigger, were fortunate (as were the perpetrators) and acted honorably and wisely from a legal standpoint. I hope I would do the same if a similar situation arises.

 

[NWdude83]

Last night I was at party, and I wasn't carrying. Big mistake. This guy who was somking some bad pot got in my face all of a sudden for no reason and starts threating me. So I tell him I'm not looking to fight cause it's my friends party and I don't wanna piss him off. So he keeps getting up in my face like he is about to start throwing punches. So trying to scare him away, I say "Hey dude, I would really hate for you to get shot". He flips! He is all "What! What! You don't know what you are starting man" He reaches his hand back around him like he is about to pull a gun or knife on me and says "Man you don't wanna start anything, saying something about getting shot". And because I didn't have my gun on me (idiot) I tell him "Hey just calm down man, no one said anything about getting shoot". "We were all just standing here talking a minute ago and you snapped and got in my face for no reason". So he still has his hand behind him, so I'm staring to think he is bluffing cause he hasn't pulled out anything to try and scare me. But I'm not gonna egg him on. So I keep trying to difuse the situation. Then finally his friend/the owner of the house comes in and I tell him whats going on and he tells his friend to leave. And I tell him "You know I don't have my gun on me tonight. But if I had brought it, I might have had a good reason to use it." And he tells me that his friend tweaks out like that sometimes and he doesn't have a gun, that he was just bluffing. I tell him "Thats a good way to possibly spend the last night of your life, trying to start fights randomly and acting like you are gonna pull something on someone who usually carries a gun".

 

[JWarren]

This guy who was somking some bad pot got in my face all of a sudden for no reason and starts threating me.

I say "Hey dude, I would really hate for you to get shot". He flips! He is all "What! What! You don't know what you are starting man"

Far be it from me to arm-chair quarterback-- and I'm not trying to be critical. However, I have to say this...

From my experience dealing with idiot frat boys when I was in college (I was one of those idiot frat boys.), the first mistake is trying to have a real conversation with an intoxicated person. Its like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Second, I'm not at all certain I would have made the comment that you made. It invites the response that you got. My view is to not telegraph anything until you have to do so. Considering that you were not in a position to carry through, it was dangerous to you.

At any rate, thank you for sharing that.


-- John

 

[Sans Authoritas]

NWDude,

You need to find a new crowd to run with. A sidearm is not an ego-booster, bargaining chip, or a situational pacifier. It's a sidearm, and unless you open carry, you shouldn't make its existence known for an imprudent reason, which, in this case, is precisely what it sounded like you did.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[Greell]

It's called CONCEALED carry for a reason. It stays concealed, and nobody should know you have it, unless you absolutely have no choice.

I have had to brandish once. I was driving my car down a small side road going to a grocery store. I wasn't speeding or driving recklessly. some guy in a small car I couldn't identify (just know it was a honda ) pulled up and started tailing me (obviously wanting me to speed to get out of his way). I put on my blinker to go left into the parking lot of the store, and he slams his breaks and I heard him yell something out his window. At first I didn't think anything of it, it hadn't crossed my mind he was swearing at me. I went about my business and went to park, as I did that I saw him speed up behind me and stop right behind where I was parked, blocking me in.

He got out of his car, and made some remark about "killing" me. He then threw a full (top closed) can of Coke at me, and it hit the top of my door and burst, luckily my window was down or it may have broken that portion of the window, also lucky that he had bad aim or that may have brained me.

I stepped out of my car and pointed my sig p229 right at him as he made a verbal and physical threat to my life, and directed him to stay back, and asked him what the problem was. He screamed out some obscenities as he ran for his car and sped off.


I don't know if the person who made this thread meant "how many people have fired their gun in self defense?" but all I can say is, you don't have to shoot, to defend yourself.

 

[Mandirigma]

....

 

[Dynasty]

Some great posts have been made and I am learning a lot about how to properly handle a threatening situation. This thread has got me thinking. I'm 18 and living in Ohio. I am legally allowed to purchase a rifle/shotgun and ammo, but not a handgun and ammo (21 is the legal age). I believe you must be 21 to legally carry in Ohio, also. My question is would it be a wise choice to carry at the age of 18 in Ohio? I know right off the bat I would be violating owning a handgun, ammo, and carrying under age, so to many it is obvious that it is NOT a wise choice to do so, but...in today's crazy world where anything can happen, I feel I want to defend myself as well as my family. My family is against firearms and when I mentioned I could legally purchase a rifle and/or shotgun they were against it. I plan on purchasing both soon, not only because I love shooting and firearms in general, but because I want to help protect and defend my family from any threats. I do not live in a bad part of town and rarely put myself in bad situations, but like I said before (and many could agree) anything can happen at any time and I want to be prepared to defend myself, family, and friends. Being an athlete and physically in shape, I feel I can hold my own but if something like a group of punks coming at me to act tough or a clearly larger (im 5'9 170lbs) and angry man comes at me, there is no doubt in my mind I will be helpless. What do you suggest I do in order to protect my life and the lives of others I love?

 

[Greell]

i'd suggest until you're 21----stay out of trouble

then once you're 21, get a nice carry handgun, and your CCW....then continue to stay out of trouble ;P

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

NWDude, I hate to say it, but the whole situation traces back to your first mistake of going to that party in the first place. People who carry weapons have a higher responsibility to not take part in the same types of lawlessness and behavior such as at that party. You should either give up carrying, or give up the pot smoking parties. I suggest the latter, but it's up to you.

 

[jaholder1971]

Doc2rn wrote:

The other time I was working grave yard shift and went to the Larry's choak n puke to get some grindage. While sitting in my car I see a group of 6 guys that look like football players emerge from the hotel next door. I slid my weapon out and put it between the seats and locked the door. The biggest guy comes running over and pounds on the glass saying that aint gonna stop him. I produce my right hand with Glock and he jumps back. One guy busts a headlight, and the store manager has already called local LEO. LEO calls for back-up and doesnt get out of his car. So I exited my vehicle, shouted FREEZE, and they all stopped their mad dash to the hotel and surrendered to the LEO. LEO tried to write me a ticket for brandishing, when I said I wanted to prosecute the youth for damaging my property. Good thing I had just gotten my CCW 3 weeks earlier.

Sheesh, Doc, simply eating at Larry's was placing your own life at risk! I don't even believe we have a brandishing law he could cite you for anyway.

That sounds like Topeka PD. Ever hear about the fight in the Gage Bowl parking lot where 12 guys were putting a beatdown on one guy? The cops stood there watching the guy get killed when Fire (1st responder) show up?
4 Guys jump off the truck in bunker gear and fire axes,end the fight and pull the guy to an awaiting ambulance, the whole time TPD watches.

It ain't the same PD my father worked at, that's for certain.

 

[cowssurf]

Dynasty,

I would definitely say, don't buy a handgun until you're 21. If you buy the gun, that's one broken law. And who is the criminal who is illegally selling it to you. Already, you're placing yourself at risk just to buy it. Then carrying it is of course illegal. To top it all off, you're now an adult, so you do adult time for your crimes. Keep staying out of trouble for three more years. As far as home defense goes, get the shotgun and shoot it a bunch. Remington 870, 18.5" barrel, and a six shot mag filled with 00 buckshot--that's just about as good as anything else you could think of for home defense, even when you get your pistol in 3 years. What we don't want is you giving more business to illegal gun sellers and giving gunophobes more reason to be scared and want to take everyone's gun.

 

[NWdude83]

First of all: everyone there was fine except for that chubby idiot.

Second: HE THREATENED ME FIRST. Read my post again!

Third: I tried difussing the situation and calming him down. Only when it looked like I had no other option but to scare him from a fight, did I say the first thing that came to my mind.

Fourth: looking back on what happened, I certainly would have done a couple things differently.

Fifth: If anyone one of us "gestured" like we were gonna pull a gun on a cop for example, we would not be alive to talk about it.

 

[JWarren]

NWDude83 wrote:

First of all: everyone there was fine except for that chubby idiot.

Second: HE THREATENED ME FIRST. Read my post again!

Third: I tried difussing the situation and calming him down. Only when it looked like I had no other option but to scare him from a fight, did I say the first thing that came to my mind.

Fourth: looking back on what happened, I certainly would have done a couple things differently.

Fifth: If anyone one of us "gestured" like we were gonna pull a gun on a cop for example, we would not be alive to talk about it.

My friend. I would suggest you heed the words of those who have posted comments-- especially marinepilot81.


I'll see if I can elaborate on what seems to be the general consensus.

First of all: everyone there was fine except for that chubby idiot.

OK. What would have prevented you from walking away from said idiot? I mean... as soon as you realized he was beligerent, why not just get away from him without needing to exchange words?

Second: HE THREATENED ME FIRST. Read my post again!

We did read it. It seems that the general consensus is that the threat was not great enough to bring up the possibility of him getting shot. If anything, the consensus is that you escalated the situation SIGNIFICANTLY by your choice of response. Again, I ask... why did you not just remove yourself from said idiot?

Third: I tried difussing the situation and calming him down. Only when it looked like I had no other option but to scare him from a fight, did I say the first thing that came to my mind.

You tried to calm him down AFTER suggesting the possibility that he would get shot. To me, it seems that you have a -10 and a +1. Still negative. Often the first thing to come to mind is the wrong choice.

Fourth: looking back on what happened, I certainly would have done a couple things differently.

Of that, I have no doubt.

Fifth: If anyone one of us "gestured" like we were gonna pull a gun on a cop for example, we would not be alive to talk about it.

I have no idea what this is about... so I leave it without a comment.


My friend... please don't get defensive about this. I am with the consensus where I see how this could have been handled better. So what? There are MANY things in my life that I wished I could have handled better. There will be more in the future.

Hopefully, this has been a learning experience for you. But we only learn from our mistakes when we are mature enough to acknowledge that the mistake was indeed a mistake. That thar's some personal growth.

Hang in there, and understand that those commenting are trying to look out for your best interest.


-- John

 

[lee n. field]

the only time i ever had to defend myself was against two pitbulls who charged me in my front yard. not sure if it counts, but very scary.

Of course it counts.

 

[moharrow]

about a month ago at an ATM. I was approched by a young man, very thin who demanded that I give him my money. I said no. at that time he produced a knife. I drew my 45. he ran.I called 911

per the local sheriffs office this is becoming more common

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I've had to draw twice to save my life, and I was involved in one shooting during Hurricane Katrina(which I wont talk about). The other 2, I'll share.

The first time I drew my weapon involved a man whom I'd had previous trouble with. He caught up with me at my shop and, pulled in behind me with his truck, blocking me in. He stepped out of his truck and grabbed a length (approximately 6') of galvanized pipe from the bed of his truck. He proceded to walk towards me with the pipe, I was standing on the side of my truck with the drivers door opened. I reached in across the drivers seat and retrieved my Sig 220. I aimed it at him and informed him that if he took one more step towards me "I was going to make his birth certificate a worthless document". He stopped. The police were called and he was arrested.

The second time was one of the strangest things that has ever happened to me. I was working on a boat in my shop, and a naked man runs right into my shop. Now when I say naked, I mean this guy was in his birthday suit and nothing else !! Stark nude - top to bottom. Imagine this scene - 2 outboard motor mechanics elbow's deep in a Mercury Optimax, and a nude man runs right by them !!. I yell at him to "Get the H*** out of my shop" and he ignores me !! He's just huddled up under a work table. My helper is about dying with laughter; you've got to know my helper.... . Heck, I didnt know wether to laugh, get a camcorder, or call the police. My mind was made up for me when Mr. Franknbeans grabs a pipe wrench off of the work table he was hiding under. I drew my G19, and held him on the ground for the police. Turns out this brainchild tried shoplifting a local grocery store, and when store security got onto him, he took off. He stripped his clothes off after swimming a drainage canal.

 

[phonesysphonesys]

Yes, on several occasions. You just know when things are going bad. If presenting a weapon makes the aggressor change his mind you don't have to kill or harm them. But don't pull a weapon unless you can and will use it.
Semper Fi

 

[Rokyudai]

Mr. Franknbeans grabs a pipe wrench off of the work table he was hiding under

Did you get your wrench back?

 

[Flopsy]

In the dreams that wake me up, I can't seem to find my gun.

Slightly off topic, but relevant to this line. In my youth, I had an often recurring dream that I am trying to defend my life with a gun, and it malfunctions and won't fire. Now that I'm a shooter and maintain my weapons, the dreams have stopped.