Dmitri Popov
Member
As someone else mentioned, have you considered a flintlock?
Hawken rifle?
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
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frontiergander
Member
with a new shooter I would NOT recommend a flintlock. You can tell me about how easy they are, that they fire faster than a percussion, that they offer better accuracy, all those tall tales, but when a new shooter comes in and doesnt have any or just a little experience with a muzzle loader, a flintlock is not a good starter.
WestKentucky
Member
Agreed to avoid flinters unless you have a good coach to get you up to speed.
280shooter
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2008
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- 707
I have the great plains in 54.left hand flint.I killed my share of Deer with it, and I only use round ball.and about 90 gr.of 3 f powder.I like the balance ,not a big fan oh that butt plate,I shot it once in a tee shirt, and I thought it broke my collar bone..
BCRider
Member
My first black powder rifle was and is the Lyman GPR flinter. I've shot enough smokeless cartridge rifles that I wanted a REAL CONTRAST. And BOY! Did I get it! ! ! ! 
But yeah, I do agree that flint isn't for everyone. It really stretches one's ability to avoid flinching when that fireball goes off right in front of your nose! But MAN! Is it FUN!
So as long as this is all explained to a newbie looking for their first BP rifle if they chose to go flint I would not go so far as to say it's the wrong choice. If they leap despite the information then at least they know what they're jumping into.
280shooter, you hurt your shoulder because you're trying to shoulder the old style design to the new modern style stance. Instead try turning more weak side to the target and wing out the trigger hand arm so you look like a half a chicken dance stance. Then hook the well rounded butt plate around your arm right by the shoulder so the lower hook fits into your armpit. THAT is the right and painless way to shoulder this style of rifle.
It also automatically puts your support arm out and under the balance point of the rifle. Suddenly it all fits and balances like it's supposed to balance and fit.
But yeah, I do agree that flint isn't for everyone. It really stretches one's ability to avoid flinching when that fireball goes off right in front of your nose! But MAN! Is it FUN!
So as long as this is all explained to a newbie looking for their first BP rifle if they chose to go flint I would not go so far as to say it's the wrong choice. If they leap despite the information then at least they know what they're jumping into.
280shooter, you hurt your shoulder because you're trying to shoulder the old style design to the new modern style stance. Instead try turning more weak side to the target and wing out the trigger hand arm so you look like a half a chicken dance stance. Then hook the well rounded butt plate around your arm right by the shoulder so the lower hook fits into your armpit. THAT is the right and painless way to shoulder this style of rifle.
It also automatically puts your support arm out and under the balance point of the rifle. Suddenly it all fits and balances like it's supposed to balance and fit.
THe GPR is the poor man's custom muzzle loader.
I agree with BCRider as to ML guns being arm rifles.
The Hawken rifle was just one of a whole genre of "plains rifles" They were short/ heavy barreled guns compared to the "long rifles" back east. The mountain men needed a gun they could carry on horse back and with sufficient power to take an Elk, Moose, Buffalo, and even a grizzly in comparison to a white tail deer or a squirrel etc.
The Hawken brothers made a rifle that filled the bill but it was not the only "plains rifle" It had a well justified reputation as one of the very best, but there were many others of similar configuration.
A Lyman GPR would fit in very nicely in that style of rifle.
This is not a very good picture, but this is an exact copy of a unique Hawken built by Jake Hawken in 1833. You can see the GPR has the same features and configuration.
I have taken a couple of elk with this rifle and a patched round ball. You hit'em in the lights and you'll make meat!! Waugh!!!
I agree with BCRider as to ML guns being arm rifles.
The Hawken rifle was just one of a whole genre of "plains rifles" They were short/ heavy barreled guns compared to the "long rifles" back east. The mountain men needed a gun they could carry on horse back and with sufficient power to take an Elk, Moose, Buffalo, and even a grizzly in comparison to a white tail deer or a squirrel etc.
The Hawken brothers made a rifle that filled the bill but it was not the only "plains rifle" It had a well justified reputation as one of the very best, but there were many others of similar configuration.
A Lyman GPR would fit in very nicely in that style of rifle.
This is not a very good picture, but this is an exact copy of a unique Hawken built by Jake Hawken in 1833. You can see the GPR has the same features and configuration.
I have taken a couple of elk with this rifle and a patched round ball. You hit'em in the lights and you'll make meat!! Waugh!!!
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Panzerschwein
member
Sweet, yeah I'm not too interested in a flintlock at this time. Thanks for the suggestions though!
So were these great plains style rifles used as "general purpose" guns for both hunting and self defense against Indians etc., or were they purely hunting rifles?
So were these great plains style rifles used as "general purpose" guns for both hunting and self defense against Indians etc., or were they purely hunting rifles?
Crawdad1
Member
They were used to kill everything of the 4 legged and 2 legged variety.
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Panzerschwein
member
Hey gang, I'm wondering how the finish on the Lyman GPR looks? I'm talking about the complete rifle, not the kit. Anybody have a pic of a stock Lyman GPR that was not made with a kit?
Also, if I get the rifle and it's too light, how can I go about staining it a darker color? I would like the finish to look like this:
Kind of a dark reddish brown color. Does the stock Lyman GPR look like this? Thanks!
Also, if I get the rifle and it's too light, how can I go about staining it a darker color? I would like the finish to look like this:
Kind of a dark reddish brown color. Does the stock Lyman GPR look like this? Thanks!
This is my stock factory-made .54 percussion GPR. No red tone, all walnut flavor.
I built this .54 flintlock GPR from a kit; it has decidedly more red in it's coloring. Finish is Herter's French Red stock filler with many coats of hand rubbed Tru-Oil and one of BC's Stock Sheen.
I built this .54 flintlock GPR from a kit; it has decidedly more red in it's coloring. Finish is Herter's French Red stock filler with many coats of hand rubbed Tru-Oil and one of BC's Stock Sheen.
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Panzerschwein
member
Lookin' good! I guess if I get my GPR and it's too light I'll refinish it.
So I understand that it's good to have a "possibles bag" is that right, to carry your shooting stuff in? Where can I find a good one for under $100? Also, what should I put in it? I know I need:
.54 round balls
Patches
Powder
Caps
Short starter
What else should my possibles bag have in it? Thank you everyone for helping me!
So I understand that it's good to have a "possibles bag" is that right, to carry your shooting stuff in? Where can I find a good one for under $100? Also, what should I put in it? I know I need:
.54 round balls
Patches
Powder
Caps
Short starter
What else should my possibles bag have in it? Thank you everyone for helping me!
Choctaw
Member
If I am hunting I try to go as light as possible. I will carry five pre-measured charges with lubed conicals, capper, bullet puller (oh yes indeed, it can happen to you :banghead, a jag with a few patches, small screwdriver, knife and a length of rope. That is really about it. All of this fits easily in my coat pocket. I no longer carry a possibles or shooting bag when afield. The older I get the lighter I want to be.
, a jag with a few patches, small screwdriver, knife and a length of rope. That is really about it. All of this fits easily in my coat pocket. I no longer carry a possibles or shooting bag when afield. The older I get the lighter I want to be.
AJumbo
Member
'Dill, have you considered getting a kit so you can finish the rifle to your own specs? The European walnut Lyman uses is somewhat light and streaky, not near as dark as American walnut (Mykeal's bottom photo in post #35 shows what you get out of the box), but staining it shouldn't pose much of a problem. Browning the steel is pretty easy, too. When you're finished, you have a rifle that's uniquely yours. Think about it; I'll be happy to offer "tech support," since I've assembled probably 20 ML firearms from kits, including a half-dozen GPRs.
BCRider
Member
That's a tough one. You need to strip away ALL of the original finish and start over from scratch. I capitalized the "ALL" because it's tougher than you think to get all the finish out of the wood grain pores. And if there's any finish left in spots and patches it'll make your staining job look piebald and you'll serious regret waking up that morning and starting the whole fiasco. So if you do strip away the original finish be prepared to keep on using the product for two more applications after you THINK it's all gone.
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Panzerschwein
member
Oh... well... nevermind!
Maybe I should get the kit??
But, I haven't any tools... I just recently moved from overseas... and I took shop class in high school but that was 6 years ago... I don't even know where to begine.
But I would certainly love to have a darker stock and browned metal... that would be lovely! But alas, if not I would just get the assembled GPR. It looks pretty good.
Maybe I should get the kit??
But, I haven't any tools... I just recently moved from overseas... and I took shop class in high school but that was 6 years ago... I don't even know where to begine.
But I would certainly love to have a darker stock and browned metal... that would be lovely! But alas, if not I would just get the assembled GPR. It looks pretty good.
Choctaw
Member
No, TC doesn't make the Hawken anymore. However, there are a ton of them on Armslist.
frontiergander
Member
personally after owning 3 tc hawkens, i'd skip over it and go with the lyman. The tc rifles use very shallow rifling in the .004" area and thats not good for patched round ball accuracy, especially when you hit the heavier loads.
Crawdad1
Member
Cooldill, something like this dark or lighter?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=430415603
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=430415603
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Panzerschwein
member
I really like that color of the stock!
I like the darker colored stocks better for some reason.
AJumbo
Member
Cooldill- the kit is pretty easy to assemble; I think most of the screw holes are already drilled, there is almost no wood shaping to be done, YouTube has videos outlining the process, and you have in this very forum a wealth of info and support. I think you could buy your supplies (sandpaper, stain, wood finish and barrel browning supplies) for under $60. The kits don't save you much money, but the rifle you produce is YOUR rifle.
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Panzerschwein
member
Well honestly, I guess I'd be fine with whatever finish was historically accurate.
Does the assembled GPR come with a historically accurate finish?
Does the assembled GPR come with a historically accurate finish?
frontiergander
Member
almost no wood shaping no rear end! You have to remove a great deal of wood off the butt end as well as around the lock panels. Most guys ive seen doing the kits leave the lock panels all square and blocky, not realizing they are supposed to remove the wood LOL.
$500 for a used GPR flintlock is a lot, especially when the picture shows the barrel along that side is all pitted from rust. Imagine what the inside looks like.
$500 for a used GPR flintlock is a lot, especially when the picture shows the barrel along that side is all pitted from rust. Imagine what the inside looks like.
Crawdad1
Member
Cooldill, if you want a dead on accurate J&S Hawken rifle you're going to have to buy a custom.
Here is a good place to start. But they ain't cheap.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/
Here is a good place to start. But they ain't cheap.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/
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Panzerschwein
member
I understand. I think I'm going to just get the normal already built GPR. I do not have the money for anything more expensive at this time.
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