Springfield vs. Hawken

[Panzerschwein]

Hello everyone!

I am in the market for a black powder rifle, I have the list narrowed down, but am currently torn between two different ones. These are:

Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in .54 caliber w/ maple stock:



http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Rocky-Mountain-Hawken-Rifle/706019.uts

Pedersoli Springfield 1861 Rifled Musket:



http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Springfield-Caliber-Musket/1389473.uts

Concerning the Hawken, I LOVE the looks of this rifle. I handled one of these with maple stock at a local Cabelas and the fit and finish was simply jaw dropping. I may well have bought it right there if it weren't .50 caliber and was instead a .54. I intend to get the .54 caliber version as I will be shooting patched round ball through this gun and it'll be for target shooting, plinking, and maybe just maybe whitetail hunting. I like the fact that it takes #11 percussion caps as these are much more available in my area vs. the musket caps the Springfield 1861 uses. The .54 round balls are also cheaper than the .58 Minie balls the Springfield uses. I know you can shoot roundball through the Springfield, but I'd want to shoot proper Minies in the 1861 and would have to take up casting to make it affordable. Seems like the .54 round balls wouldn't require that, I can find Hornady swaged .54 balls for relatively cheap online.

So, the Hawken seems like the practical answer. The components to fire it are both more available in my area and are significantly cheaper. It's a notably shorter rifle, more handy, and just more versatile all around. I greatly appreciate the Hawken rifle history and heritage and thing this iteration is outstandingly beautiful at least in the specimen I handled. Movies like Jeremiah Johnson sure can make a man pine for a Hawken!!

But...

Then there's the Springfield 1861 rifled musket!

Talk about history! I'm a very big Civil War enthusiast. I don't do reenactments or anything like that, but feel a deep connection to the war and have read numerous books on the subject, including several autobiographies of soldiers on both sides. It's a truly fascinating subject, and I have always wanted a Civil War rifled musket since I was young. If I got this gun, I'd want to shoot it just like the real soldiers did: with paper cartridges out of a cartridge box with accompanying cap pouch. I can easily imagine how fun it would be to do rapid reloading of the gun with cartridges, maybe tramping around with it in the creek back home. Seems like it'd be incredibly fun! I'd also just love to stretch it out on the 300 yard range I occasionally go to here in Kansas.

As fun as all of this would be, the necessity to find musket caps and Minie balls (at least for the true experience) would be a logistical challenge. The musket caps I suppose I could get online, but pre-cast Minie balls are very expensive. If I got the Springfield, I'd also be buying a casting pot and some pure lead ingots to go with it!

So, basically, I want both of these guns very badly to say the least, but my funds could hardly allow getting both of them. I need to choose between these two rifles, but the choice is hard.

What would you pick between these two for the purposes of recreational target shooting/plinking, and why? I'm very interested to hear your comments and to learn more about the great sport of black powder shooting, which is a microcosm unto itself among the shooting sports.

Thanks so much for your time, and your help is greatly appreciated!

 

[damoc]

Ive got a hawken so the springfield appeals more to me i also prefer NOT to have double set triggers but to others the extra accuracy im sure would be a good thing Im sure you can fire a minnie ball or round ball out of each of them equally well so thats a non issue

 

[rodwha]

It would seem, for the many various reasons that you mentioned, that the Hawken makes the most practical sense, and throwing deer hunting in there solidifies the Hawken for me as .54 cal is more than plenty, but also because that rifle would be more weekend huntin friendly unless you were to use a stationary hunting position. It was for this reason I chose for my first rifle a Lyman Deerstalker as its compact and lightweight enough for an all weekend hunt stalking the woods and still ought to do just fine from a fixed position where 100 yds is possible (on paper at least).

Having jumped right into these BP arms has ignited an interest in both the Civil War and Revolutionary War weapons. Despite that those interests sit below the practical ones on my needs/wants list.

On another note I highly recommend you get in to casting your projectiles! I wanted conicals to hunt with that had a more modern Keith type profile in case I were to need to track a wounded hog. They were far too expensive to buy. Though my custom mold was a bit pricey the Lee equipment was fairly cheap. With lead having cost me a mere $1/lb that made my various projectiles dirt cheap and didn't leave me at the mercy of the commercial guys where they to get back ordered by smokeless needs.

 

[Crawdad1]

Same problem with the 16 gauge shotgun that people are running into. Most, not all, but most of the old American built shotguns in 16 gauge were built on a 20 gauge frame and a real joy to hunt with. However a lot of guys pass on them because the ammo is so expensive and virtually unavailable except online. Both of your choices are great but if you can't get the ammo for it what good is it?

I voted for the Hawken.

 

[CraigC]

For me, the Springfield is cool but it doesn't call to me like the Rocky Mountain Hawken did. So I bought one. It's a gorgeous rifle, though heavier than my Lyman GPR. It is an absolute tackdriver.

 

[Curator]

Get the Hawken. It is way more versatile, easier to get shooting supplies, more accurate, and easier on the shooter too. The 1861 Springfield is difficult to shoot accurately with lousy sights. Getting Minie balls to shoot well in it is often problematic. While it does make a pretty good club, and was accurate enough for volley-fire, it leaves a lot to be desired as a hunting gun and is in no way a good target rifle. I own a custom .52 Hawken, similar to the Pedersoli, as well as a 1861 Pedersoli replica so I am speaking from personal experience. Each of these is designed for a different purpose. The Hawken was meant to be an all around hunting rifle capable of taking big or small game at ranges rarely encountered "back east," The 1861 Springfield was designed for massed infantry shooting in volleys and as a pole/club onto which one would mount a bayonet.

 

[Doak]

Sorry to be the one to rain on the parade.
Before it's too late, get a flinter.

Kindest Regards,
Doak

 

[Sunray]

Apples and oranges. Totally different time periods. Hawkens pre-date the rifled musket by several decades. Flinters used by trappers long before there was such a thing as a rifled musket.
The Hawken was meant to be an all around hunting rifle capable of killing a griz, a buffler or 'Injun' equally well.

 

[BHP FAN]

Why not get a Gemmer? That way, you'd have both...

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Another thing to possibly think about...
On the used market you see basic Hawkens up for sale by folks who have moved on to inline rifles for hunting quite often. Granted most are 50 cal but 54's are in the mix and they often sell pretty cheap. So, you could buy the Springfield NEW and add a used Hawken on the side for less than $100 more if you keep your eyes open.

 

[daboyleroy]

Springfield vs Hawken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejxByA-siSs

details near the end of vid.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I own both. For everyday shooting I prefer the Hawken, it is easier to clean and shooting is less costly. The Springfield I have is an original, not a copy, so I don't shoot it nearly as often but since I usually use minie balls in it instead of round balls it is more expensive per shot. Either way, it is fun!

 

[4v50 Gary]

I have both - sorta. Mine is a Lyman Great Plains and some sort of copy of the Colt rifle (a near copy of the 1861). As to which to have, I'll take the Mountain Rifle first. It's shorter, uses less lead. Now, if I were a Civil War soldier, I'll take a Springfield. Minie-balls outrange round balls.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks guys! This is such a hard choice.

Both rifles are on the pricy side... otherwise I'd get them both and be done with it LOL! I've got to make my pick between these fellers....

 

[DoubleDeuce 1]

For me, Hawken and then the Springfield. Just to put your mind at ease, get the Hawken and send it to me. I will perform some extensive testing and let you know if it should be disposed of. I also offer a free disposal service.

Once the disposition of the Hawken is determined, I will also offer the same extensive testing and disposal service for the Springfield.

 

[PRM]

I bought a Lyman GPR off of Gun Broker last year and saved about $600 off of the list price of a new Pedersoli. Unlike a lot of the GPRs that have a dark finish, mine had a really nice grain. I've been well pleased with both the rifle and the money saved on the auction site. I'd be patient, great deals are out there.

 

[PRM]

There is a nice .54 cal with a "Buy It Now" price of $550 listed now.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=482512159

 

[Hellgate]

I have both types (rifled muskets and Hawken type). The minies are very difficult to cast well and the few commercial ones I've seen would have ended up in my cull/remelt pile. Saying that, the two deer and one elk were all killed with a musket (Zouave or musketoon). All 3 were complete pass through and one shot kills. My favorite rifle is the musketoon with a slip-on recoil pad. The 54 cal rifles are more consistent in bore size than the 58s. You can buy or cast conical bullets for the Hawken if you want more thump. The 54s are plenty big for whitetail. I'd say go with the Hawken in 54 and if you get hooked, get a musketoon, a Mississippi rifle (both 54 & 58 cal), Buffalo Hunter or some other short barreled 58 because they are so much more handy than the long Tom full sized rifled muskets (24" vs 42"?).

 

[Iggy]

Get the Hawken.. They are great old rifles. I have taken Antelope, Deer, and Elk with this one.



I also agree that the Lyman GPR is as close to a custom rifle as you can come without paying the price of one.

 

[rodwha]

So it seems most replies are for the Hawken and the vote, though fairly close, also is for the Hawken. I also noted a while back that it seemed similar on TFL. I'm curious if you are leaning towards one and whether the responses helped you to decide.

 

[CraigC]

I must say, as an owner of both with great affection for the GPR, there's a big difference between the two. The GPR is a nice rifle and a great place to start in blackpowder but the Pedersoli is a considerably better built rifle. Better lock, better trigger, better wood, better fit & finish and mine is an absolute tackdriver.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Pedersoli has had some quality issues lately...have to say they may only be slightly better than the Lyman product these days when it comes to their plains rifle...if even that. Their SRP is not justified (imho)

I would opt for the .54 in either percussion or flinter....no need to beat your shoulder up with the rifled musket. The deer won't know the difference, but the plains style rifle will be easier to handle in wooded areas, and unless you're going to let the rifled musket "patina", it won't shine like the rifled musket.

LD

 

[PRM]

I have the Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine and the 20X20 Pedersoli Howdah. I've no complaints with quality, and they are dependable. I did have the opportunity to hand pick both. On the Howdahs some of the fitting varied - I wouldn't want to order one unseen. I looked at about a dozen before settling on the one I bought.

My Lyman GPR was an auction gun that was picture heavy and I got what I bid on. It's as close to a custom gun as I could have wanted for a fraction of the price.

Both are great brands with a history, and most folks are happy with either. Generally, my position on buying any gun is to either see it in person, or at a minimum, quality pictures of the actual gun I'm buying with a return policy. Buying a boxed production gun randomly pulled from a shelf, sight unseen, is a gamble on what you will get as far as grain of the wood, fit, finish, and function.

 

[Milkmaster]

Love my Hawken, and the most desirable for me is the TC Hawken. Quality all the way. Can be found used now for less than a fortune.

 

[ImperatorGray]

I have to say I'd go with the Hawken. It is simply gorgeous, and the one I handled seemed to float swiftly on target much quicker and easier for me. (Could just be a psychological thing based on how pretty it was, though.)

I was obsessed with both eras as a kid, and even drew up a detailed pattern for the Springfield and worked at carving it from a two-by-four because my parents wouldn't allow me to buy a real one. Then they caught me making it and decided I wasn't old enough to use the tools... The almost-completed replica ended up as a chicken roost.