HD option for daughter in off campus apartment

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I don't know about now, but 10 years ago we used to see two types of robbery at off campus apartments.

Forced entry / home invasion - The door bar linked above should take care of this if they use it when they are home as long as the door is strong enough. When they aren't home renters insurance will take care of it.

Push in -Coming home late at night the attacker grabs from behind as the door unlocks and pushes the person in. Don't come home late alone, have people wait when she is dropped off, have good situational awareness and get back in the car if something feels off. Apartments are also a target for abductions for a trip to the ATM, people these days don't have much in the way of cash on them so this probably happening more.

You will know if she is responsible enough for a firearm, but the door bar should be the first priority.
 
Why not just get an MP3 recording of an 870 getting pumped - "click-clack". After all, we know that a BG only has to hear that terrifying sound from behind the door and they will immediately leave.












Just kidding, obviously.
 
Not sure if a handgun is allowed in the dorm in question, but given the large number of people in proximity, thin walls, etc., firearms might not be a good choice for defense here. As teCh0010 points out above, many attacks can occur at the dorm, but not in the room - rather, just outside it during entry, in the halls, stairwells, etc.

Pepper spray is an option, but do not discount the power of forceful resistance. We see in reports that over and over the woman who just starts hitting back usually wins the day. For in-room defense, a baseball bat is hard to beat. And in a crowded dorm, physical resistance combined with yelling should draw the attention of other students. I'd go with some basic self-defense here, like krav maga classes.
 
Things to consider:

1. Size, configuration and contents of the apartment. In my apartment, a long gun is pretty much worthless. Walk through the place and see if you can get to the front door without hitting or snagging on something. See if you could effectively engage a threat.

2. Skill of the potential user. How MUCH has she shot and with what? Is she more COMFORTABLE with one type of firearm than another? Does she shoot better with one type than another?

3. Security. When she's not present, how will the firearm be secured? If it's a long gun, she probably won't be taking it with her. If so, how will it be secured? Gun locker? Gun safe? Bicycle cable lock, and secured to what? A handgun is MUCH easier to secure, either in a single gun safe or even a locked drawer or cupboard.

4. Regardless of what she ends up with as a tool, make sure she has a clear understanding of relevant gun and self-defense law. Make sure that she knows what to do if she has to defend herself, whether she shoots or not. Make sure she knows to say the minimum necessary to police after a shooting. Keep it simple and memorable by somebody who's just shot somebody and is upset. Sign her up for the NRA "Personal Protection in the Home" class.
 
I have a S&W model 317 .22 LR, D/A, 8-shot, 3-inch bbl revolver that I keep in the designated "retreat room" for my wife and daughter to use in the event they need a gun to protect themselves. I load it with CCI Velocitor ammunition. It's stowed in a GunVault (http://www.gunvault.com).

My rationale for a .22 LR D/A revolver is it's KISS-simple. My wife and daughter enjoy shooting but they don't have a driving enthusiasm to develop and maintain the manipulation skills necessary to quickly clear a jammed action or to ensure they don't short-stroke a pump-action. There is also very little recoil to contend with, so they're less likely to jerk the trigger in anticipation of recoil. In essence all they have to do is "point" the gun and press the trigger. If a misfire is encountered all they have to do is drive on and press the trigger again.

One reason I purchased the S&W 317 is because it's lightweight aluminum construction also facilitates concealed carry, in the event I wanted to utilize it for CCW. If I were purchasing a .22 LR revolver strictly for HD I'd go with a Taurus 9-shot steel/stainless steel with a 3 or 4-inch bbl.

If you're willing to wait until Nov/Dec the Rossi .410 Circuit Judge, which is a .410 revolver shotgun, is probably the perfect choice for a HD firearm for those who don't have the enthusiasm to develop and maintain combative manipulation skills. See: http://www.rossiusa.com/news-detail.cfm?newsID=25

Good luck!
 
I live off campus and always keep a gun around. Granted, I'm in my late twenties and a veteran, been carrying since I was 21, and have shot since I was four.
The one I absolutely won't be without is my SP-101. It's small enough to take with me easily, which is something no long gun can really do.
The female friends I've introduced to shooting have taken to it with .38 Special ammo more readily than to semi-auto's. Since your daughter is a shooter already she might be OK with a semi-auto - you'd have to help decide that one.
I agree with the pepper spray option too - I know many girls who have OC that their fathers have given them. It's not as good as a gun, but I admit that they often have their OC on campus when I have to leave my gun at home. Likewise with a knife - even on campus it's not uncommon to see the tell-tale pocket clip from a folder. The campus police have to notice them too if I do, but no one ever gets harassed about it. A thin folder with a clip can be concealed a lot of places - and girls wear a lot of strange outfits.

And I agree - teach them to fight tooth-and-nail. I've worked with delinquent kids and mentally challenged adults for over five years combined and it is very hard to restrain a person who flat out won't be restrained.
 
I definitely disagree with the bear spray idea. We're probably talking about a very small, closed space here, so both your daughter and her friend will feel plenty of the effects as well. That stuff can cause permanent damage to human sight.

The shotgun has my vote, as long as they definitely understand what having a firearm means.
 
I agree with the bear spray. Get it in various sizes for concealing in easy to access places in the apartment. No complications with apartment neighbors should a shot go through a wall, and easier to get to when really needed. Have them keep one near the door, and one in their bedroom accessible from their beds.

Also personal defense classes would be great.

I admire your desire to help keep your daughter and her roommate as safe as possible. As others have mentioned though, if a gun is around and there is partying/various people through their apartment, you might not want a gun there.
 
Weapons would be a bad idea in that environment. Their girls so their cells are always handy, they can call the police.

I'd also recomend bear spray or a taser.
 
.410 shells are limited in selection and almost all designed for small game. I would think twice about trying to rely on it for home defense. OTOHI've seen many small women shooting 12 ga shotguns without difficulty, so I think this business of limiting them to a micro shotgun is unnecessary. What are they used to shooting? I see nothing wrong with the same shotgun they've been using already.
 
There is a time and a place for guns, this is not one of them. Give the girl a dog. A dog is a better option on a number of levels.

Even if your daughter is a seasoned shooter, I'd rule out a gun just based on the roommate, and the fact that we're talking about college. Guys will come over, and guys like guns....and guys in college can be idiots.

I don't think its been mentioned, but are they living in a school zone? ie close to campus? Might be illegal anyways.

Get a dog. This imparts responsibility; and a protective dog is much better than a gun in a late-night-grope-turned-rape situation.
 
Their girls so their cells are always handy, they can call the police.
Click to expand...
Pretty lame advice. I know a family who mourns a daughter who was murdered in her college apartment while the police were outside the building wondering why no one answered the door.

I'll repeat what I said before, worrying about which gun is less important than developing a mindset of security.

If there will be partying and lots of folks wandering through at all hours, your daughter's security is largely illusory anyway. That is a hard fact to swallow, but college kids are abominably easy prey. They're out on their own at last, the world is a happy and exciting place, living is easy, and all kinds of free-wheeling habits come naturally. As much as you'd certainly hate to rob them of their joi de vivre and youthful trust in their fellow man, if you don't get a safety mindset and good practices established there is nothing but random chance keeping them from harm.
 
Again... off campus housing, three blocks from campus, and I have friends of various levels of skill and competence around all the time.
I keep my revolver locked up in a pistol safe (which is a plus of a handgun - it is easier to secure and conceal from prying eyes).
If your daughter isn't an idiot she should be fine with a handgun around for defense.

A loyal dog is a good thing to have, but from my experience, it's harder to have pets than it is to have guns or alcohol.
 
Ok, there are two types of bear spray, those that release a FOG
and those that release a stream

The ones that FOG release a cone to about 25-50 feet
the stream can go between 75 to 80 feet
I wouldn't like either in a confined space, but I doubt an attacker would stay in a gas chamber so it would work for cleaning an apartment.

Tazer and OC would be convenient because they can be carried on campus, and that means that your daughter can carry it everywhere. Once again, training is key to any of these, she has to recognize that she is in a bad place and be able to act, not just react.
 
A long gun still requires two hands and at the moment of truth, she may need the other hand for fighting, holding the door, calling the cops, etc.

Unless she is very proficient, I wouldn't get an auto pistol. Magazines, malfunctions, safeties, etc. All potential problems unless she has fired a lot of autos.

I suggest a hammerless revolver (.38 or .22) and a can of OC/pepper spray along with a Surefire flashlight. That combo gives her a range of options.
 
20 guage all the way. My wife loves hers. Shoots like a dream and with he right load no worries about over penetration.

I would get an 18" wingmaster or 870 express.
 
I'm suprised at the number of posts against the firearm option. My daughter is in the same boat but will start college at only 17. Once she turns 18, she will have her glock in a small bedside safe. There are millions of guns owned by law abiding citizens for protection. How many of the actual protection related shootings are done by a firearm "expert" that trains weekly? I bet a very very small percentage. I enjoy reading the stories in Rifleman magazine about the old folks or young person that used the family weopon to defend themselves - happens all the time. Come on folks. It takes minimal familiarization to pull a revolver and protect oneself from someone standing 5 feet or less away.

If she had to pull out the shotgun, it would be a life or death situation. Do you really think they would notice the difference between a .410, .20 or 12 guage when the adrenalin is pumping at full speed. I would want her to have the deadliest weopon she can have - .12 guage.

Here in Georgia, the Govenor is the last step in signing a bill to allow guns on college campuses. I sure hope he signs it. I'm tired of the only people having guns in gun free zones are the criminals!
 
I live with 6 roommates in an off campus apartment, and between me and one other roommate, we have 11 firearms in the house. I've never had any problems whatsoever. There have been occasional parties and alcohol, but this doesn't mean it's unwise to own a firearm in this situation. Leaving them locked up and out of sight is more than enough. It isn't hard to conceal weapons from visitors. Hell, it isn't hard to conceal weapons from other roommates either if you don't mention anything. Being in college doesn't mean we must be deprived of our means of self-defense.

As long as she is responsible and willing to keep her mouth shut about owning a firearm, she won't have any issues.

I think Bear spray is also a good idea though, the more tools the better.
 
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that this persons daughter must be an expert in firearms. I think some folks, including myself, are expressing valid concerns that pertain to 1. Training 2. Mindset 3. Environment. Introducing a firearm into a typical 'dorm' environment is a recipe for disaster. Why? Many (not all) college students either drink regularly or have people in their lives who do (friends, boyfriends, etc.). My belief is that guns and alcohol don't mix. I won't get into drug use, but that is an unfortunate reality too. Now, most parents will say "my son/daughter" doesn't do any of that. Maybe. Maybe not. The truth is that most parents have no idea what their kids are really into or who they associate with. I'm just saying that when people are going through the phase in their life when they think it's fun to get so drunk they can't dial a telephone it's maybe not the right time to introduce firearms.

If you are like the above poster and can keep your mouth shut, care enough about firearms to be posting regularly here, and have like minded roommates, maybe my opinion changes.
 
He's the end of the story. I took the girls and the friends mother to the local gun store, explained to the clerk what we were looking for and let the 3 women handle any firearm they wanted. Borrowing the items, we went next door to the range and each had a chance to fire their their respective "choice".

Net: 410 shotgun loaded with the newer HD rounds mounted inside the front closet door on hooks above the door jam, ( you really have to look to see it there). An SW Model 60 with 38SP for my daughters room - which I added an additional door lock to, a Kimber personal pepper spray device in the hall closet. Her friend wanted a Taser and that the next quest.

Thanks for all the input. Ill be taking the girls to the range weekly until they get more confident.
 
Ill be taking the girls to the range weekly until they get more confident.
Click to expand...

That's the right idea. It's nice to see how committed you are to their safety. What city are they living in, is it a particularly rough area?

Oh, and you can't go wrong with 60. Simple, effective, and lasts a lifetime.

One more thing - try to get a good flashlight or two for them at some point.
 
Way back when when I lived in an apartment (before frangible bullets were available) I kept my revolver loaded with snake shot in the first two cylinders followed by 38 special wad cutters. And a speed loader with .357 JHPs.

Mindset is the most important part. Women sometimes have a hard time intentionally hurting someone but they need to understand that the BG does not share that handicap.
 
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