Hdy 240 grs XTP in 444 Marlin ?

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LRDGCO

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I like the 444 Marlin for hogs. Tested Hornady 240 grs XTP over 48grs H4891 today and it was accurate and quite snappy
at 2460 FPS. Thought it would be great for hogs but I would imagine that’s too fast for the XTP? Terminal velocities over 2000 FPS...

Yes, I can check with Hornady, but there are so many very smart people here.
 
There is an XTP-Mag for higher velocities. I am unsure of its velocity ceiling though. There is a 240 gr .452 XTP-Mag bullet that is apparently used in the .460 S&W mag and that would go around 1800 fps at the muzzle at least.

Probably still too fast in your .444. Could try shooting it into some wet newsprint and check the bullet out.
 
Pity. That’s properly fast. And surprisingly accurate.
 
If your shooting deer or smaller critters they probably won't notice. With bigger thicker skin game you might not get the penetration you expected.

Definitely not worth risking on hogs. Thanks for the advice and counsel.
 
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Made a you know what out of myself by assuming that because there was a .45 cal XTP-Mag than there would be a .44. Sorry OP.

Still strange though.
 
My 444 load is 300gr Sierra’s over 42gr of H-4198. I’ve posted the picture before but it truly shoots touching cloverleafs at 100 yards. Cannot load with full length brass as OAL will be too long. But when I was experimenting with those bullets I figured it out. Trim your brass to the leverevolution length and seat at the cannelure. Has taken several hogs over 350 lbs and done so with authority.

I don’t personally feel the 240 XTP’s are constructed well enough for deep penetration at 2000+ FPS. Others may feel differently and that’s perfectly fine. I just know what works exceptionally well for me.
 
Not a big fan of Hornady bullets and have witnessed way too many failures at much lower velocities (both mag and standard XTP). A-frames or XPBs would be my first expanding bullet choices.
 
Most of my hunting is with a .50 caliber inline muzzleloader. For many years i used the excellent .430 240 grain XTP bullet. i've killed about 30 deer and scores of wild hogs using 100-150 grains of Pyrodex. 150 grains of Pyrodex drives the saboted 240 grain bullet at 2,100-2,200 fps. The vast majority of my animals were one shot kills, many were bang flops.

After using a more expensive bullet for several years i recently returned to using the .430 240 grain XTP bullet. 250-300 pound hogs hit in the heart lung usually don't far.
 
^^^^See? Two okies even disagree. Perfectly fine.

As a side note: My 444 Marlin IS the micro groove. Some may claim the microgrooves don’t shoot the heavy bullets well. But my personal gun would beg to differ. But we all know every gun is different.
 
Would be a good varmint bullet but that's about it. Hornady's 265gr is their .444 bullet but I don't care for any of their offerings. Too prone to failure and there are too many better choices available. The 270gr Gold Dot is infinitely better but my first choice is going to be a cast bullet. For deer/hogs in the .444, it would be something in the 300gr range.
 
Would be a good varmint bullet but that's about it. Hornady's 265gr is their .444 bullet but I don't care for any of their offerings. Too prone to failure and there are too many better choices available. The 270gr Gold Dot is infinitely better but my first choice is going to be a cast bullet. For deer/hogs in the .444, it would be something in the 300gr range.

Yes, I have a Matt's bullets 325 grs has check flat nose that's quite accurate and about 1870fps as I recall. And Hell on hogs. But wanted more reach. The 160 grs FTX in 30-30 has been fantastic on piggies, but I've never used the 44 cal FTX on game. You've had bad experiences?
 
^^^^See? Two okies even disagree. Perfectly fine.

As a side note: My 444 Marlin IS the micro groove. Some may claim the microgrooves don’t shoot the heavy bullets well. But my personal gun would beg to differ. But we all know every gun is different.

I believe current production Marlin 444 Marlin rifles have traditional Ballard rifling not micro-groove.
 
Mine is an H&R, so more flexible on OAL. I have a Marlin 336 30-30 microgroove that shoots cast well provided they are .310-.311 and kept under 1800fps.
 
I believe current production Marlin 444 Marlin rifles have traditional Ballard rifling not micro-groove.
They are Ballard rifling and faster twist. But some say the slower twist micro-groove barrels won’t stabilize 300gr bullets. Mine does.
 
Yes, I have a Matt's bullets 325 grs has check flat nose that's quite accurate and about 1870fps as I recall. And Hell on hogs. But wanted more reach. The 160 grs FTX in 30-30 has been fantastic on piggies, but I've never used the 44 cal FTX on game. You've had bad experiences?
I've seen and heard of more XTP failures (and Hornady's in general) than anything else. A good bonded bullet is cheap insurance.
 
Any time the XTP’s - or FTX’s, really - come up, there’s always that gut check of bullet failures. Which, by most common standards, sure, the weight loss they suffer would be considered a failure.

But if you consider “failure” of a bullet in terms of failing to quickly and effectively kill the target animal when placed appropriately, then a guy has to consider - how did those folks get those bullets back to measure their fragmentation loss and weight retention?

Some other guys might consider failing to pass through as a “failure.” Well - how did those folks know the bullet didn’t pass through?

For either case: Dead is dead.

I would never consider taking an XTP or FTX on anything bigger than deer, and by saying that, I mean NEVER, and also mean nothing bigger than deer. I’ve recovered these bullets myself, and contemplated the poor weight retention and failure to pass through many times while I supped on venison killed by them.

Maybe I’m biased. I’m a coyote hunter at the core, because I can do that 365 1/4 days per year and my family has a few million dollars wrapped up in cattle - I’ve sold thousands of furs over the years, and really don’t mind NOT having an exit wound. I like to dump my energy in the pumphouse and not waste anything else. If game were running a mile afterwards, maybe I’d worry more about having a hole in each side. But when they fall on a spectrum somewhere between tipping over and staggering 30yrds, I don’t worry much.

I have had the same relationship with polymer tipped, non-bonded bullets like NBT’s, SST’s, CT BST’s. I won’t even pretend these bullets retain weight to any acceptable standard, and quite often, the core separates from the jacket. Exit wounds are often odd shaped and small, and not in line with the preliminary wound tract. That is, if any exit wound presents at all, and there are jacket fragments throughout the chest cavity and ribs (to the point of being easy to cut yourself as you scoop out the lung & blood jello salad they leave). Absolute and complete bullet destruction, a failure by any measure. But I’ve eaten nearly a hundred deer taken with these bullets.

My worst consequence for using the XTP’s on deer so far has really been a few shards of jacket in my buck-sgetti or deer-ox. If I lose one next season, I’d expect I’m due to make a bad shot as the shooter, or have a statistical “WTH just happened?” event which all hunters have eventually.

I’m not saying they’re great bullets, but rather the common standards/definitions of “bullet failures” might not be the best measure of terminal performance.
 
This 300 grain Mag XTP stopped on the onside shoulder of a 350 lb red stag from a .45 Colt at right around 1,200 fps.

View attachment 834579

But Max, it’s missing the whole nose...

Seems 20-something years ago I often read how great the XTP was. Don’t recall ever having read (until now) how they are/were prone to shedding so much lead.
 
This 300 grain Mag XTP stopped on the onside shoulder of a 350 lb red stag from a .45 Colt at right around 1,200 fps.

View attachment 834579

So would you consider that a bullet failure? You were right on the bottom edge, if not slightly off it depend on range to target, with that impact velocity for the 45 cal 300gr XTP/MAG. The 45 cal 300gr HP/XTP might have worked better.

I have taken four deer with XTP bullets, two with 45 Cal 300 gr XTP/MAG from a muzzle loader and two 10mm 200gr HP/XTP and have never recovered a bullet as they have always exited leaving a pile of venison behind.
 
So would you consider that a bullet failure? You were right on the bottom edge, if not slightly off it depend on range to target, with that impact velocity for the 45 cal 300gr XTP/MAG. The 45 cal 300gr HP/XTP might have worked better.

I have taken four deer with XTP bullets, two with 45 Cal 300 gr XTP/MAG from a muzzle loader and two 10mm 200gr HP/XTP and have never recovered a bullet as they have always exited leaving a pile of venison behind.

The second one disintegrated. I'll dig up the fragment photos. Not acceptable to me.
 
I'm one that doesn't base failure/success on the presence or absence of a dead critter. I want to know what the bullet did. Did it behave as expected, as designed? Did it come unglued and lose too much mass? Did it stay together? How well did it penetrate? Did it penetrate straight? All questions I want the answer to before I come to any sort of conclusion. Because the failed bullet that yields a dead critter today may not be so forgiving the next time. There is no perfect, magic bullet but there are better bullets. Bullets that go much further in minimizing your chances of losing a critter. I guess I'm spoiled from years of hunting with cast bullets but even the best hard cast, heat treated bullets have their limitations.

I honestly don't know why people are so stuck on the XTP when there are so much better options available. For a jacketed bullet, the Gold Dot/Deep Curl is so much better, yet they're barely ever mentioned.

This is what the regular 300gr .45 XTP does at 1200fps. It expands rapidly and loses its wad. Also unacceptable for anything larger than deer.

IMG_0409.jpg

Sometimes they don't expand at all, despite being well within Hornady's velocity range.

IMG_0362_2.jpg

I can't even show you my worst Hornady experience because there wasn't enough of the bullet recovered for a picture. I hit a large doe with one of their 300gr .405 loads and it acted like a varmint bullet. Blew up at the entrance and a small pellet sized fragment of the core made it through the vitals. I had to brain it to keep it from getting up and running off.
 
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