Preacherman
Member
At 9 p.m. Eastern time, the History Channel series "Shootout!" is looking at the North Hollywood bank robbery, where two felons with full-auto weapons pinned down dozens of L.A. police for an hour or two. Might be worth watching.
Heads up - History Channel tonight, 9/13/05
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Steam dragon
Member
Saw it about 6 months ago.
At least I think it is the same show.
A DEFINATE must see, if you haven't yet.
First rule in a gunfight, Bring a gun. Second rule, Bring ENOUGH gun!
At least I think it is the same show.
A DEFINATE must see, if you haven't yet.
First rule in a gunfight, Bring a gun. Second rule, Bring ENOUGH gun!
HighVelocity
Member
Got it on now. Thanks
KONY
Member
Just tuned in myself. Thanks!
RoyG
Member
You beat me to it.
I guess History Channel can't afford to pay for fact checkers.
RRTX
Member
I'm watching it now, there is some pretty bad info being tossed around :banghead:
Thrash1982
Member
I'm watching it now also. Normally the History channel is much better about gun facts. I'm rather disappointed.
HighVelocity
Member
I swear I heard the narrator say SWAT had M15's
What I heard was that the cops were using civilian AR-15's from a local gunstore after they discovered their 9mm's were bouncing off the robbers' armor.
A curious thing that the narrarator said M-15. I have heard at least two or three text refrences from different sources designating Armalite built AR-15s as M-15s. Whats up with that?
And an FBI agent that wrote a book about bank robberies said that the robbers in the NH incident used AK-74's with drum mags, but he did not state the caliber.
A curious thing that the narrarator said M-15. I have heard at least two or three text refrences from different sources designating Armalite built AR-15s as M-15s. Whats up with that?
And an FBI agent that wrote a book about bank robberies said that the robbers in the NH incident used AK-74's with drum mags, but he did not state the caliber.
LaEscopeta
Member
I understand this incident has been discussed to death, but I missed all that. I just have two quick questions:
1. Does anyone think the robbers could have gotten away if did something differently, instead of just standing their and spraying bullets? (i.e. gotten to their car and driven off.) Or was the police helicopter already there when they left the bank?
2. I’m not sure how much of the show was film from the actual event, and how much was reenactment, but any idea why the robbers were standing so upright and moving so slowly? Was the home-made body armor too heavy/constricting? Were they psycho/stupid/hopped up on pills?
The main thing I got from the show was the difference between knowing firearms and knowing how to use them. The robbers knew how to select powerful weapons, some of which they modified to make more effective, and matched them with the most destructive ammo available. For all practical purposes they were armed as well as they could be. But apparently they were just spraying bullets in the general direction of where they though a threat was. When they chanced to hit someone, they were not well placed shots; 17 people hit, no fatalities. When they succeeded in driving the cops back, they didn’t move to take advantage of it. Having a first class firearm you don’t know how to use doesn’t help you much; it is much better to have a second rate gun you know how to use.
1. Does anyone think the robbers could have gotten away if did something differently, instead of just standing their and spraying bullets? (i.e. gotten to their car and driven off.) Or was the police helicopter already there when they left the bank?
2. I’m not sure how much of the show was film from the actual event, and how much was reenactment, but any idea why the robbers were standing so upright and moving so slowly? Was the home-made body armor too heavy/constricting? Were they psycho/stupid/hopped up on pills?
The main thing I got from the show was the difference between knowing firearms and knowing how to use them. The robbers knew how to select powerful weapons, some of which they modified to make more effective, and matched them with the most destructive ammo available. For all practical purposes they were armed as well as they could be. But apparently they were just spraying bullets in the general direction of where they though a threat was. When they chanced to hit someone, they were not well placed shots; 17 people hit, no fatalities. When they succeeded in driving the cops back, they didn’t move to take advantage of it. Having a first class firearm you don’t know how to use doesn’t help you much; it is much better to have a second rate gun you know how to use.
ny32182
Member
I missed the "Shootout" production I've liked all of them so far, so it will be a shame if this one isn't up to par with the others.
I remember the "44 minutes" made for TV antigunfest on FX a while back, and the guys they interviewed for that, who supposedly were actually there, made a point of "you know the sound of a full auto 7.62x39 AK if you've ever been to Vietnam... 7.62x39 AK this, and 7.62x39 AK that." They made a point that they were x39s.
However. I've also read numerous accounts that state in addition to their primary use of AK's, they also made sparing use of a Bushmaster 5.56mm, and an HK-91 type .308. I'm beginning to think that no one really knows what they used at all.
They were covered in vests, and cut up vests on their legs, sides, etc. Certainly this did restrict their movement, and they did just stand fully out in the open. No effort was made e by them to take cover, and they didn't hit much of anything that they were shooting at. Could they have gotten away? Who knows. They didn't even try to get away until they had half the LE resources in Kali surrounding them. One thing they had working slightly against them was that a normal beat patrol cop saw them on the sidewalk outside the bank, and had an armed robbery response in progress right as they walked through the door.
I've liked all of them so far, so it will be a shame if this one isn't up to par with the others.I remember the "44 minutes" made for TV antigunfest on FX a while back, and the guys they interviewed for that, who supposedly were actually there, made a point of "you know the sound of a full auto 7.62x39 AK if you've ever been to Vietnam... 7.62x39 AK this, and 7.62x39 AK that." They made a point that they were x39s.
However. I've also read numerous accounts that state in addition to their primary use of AK's, they also made sparing use of a Bushmaster 5.56mm, and an HK-91 type .308. I'm beginning to think that no one really knows what they used at all.
They were covered in vests, and cut up vests on their legs, sides, etc. Certainly this did restrict their movement, and they did just stand fully out in the open. No effort was made e by them to take cover, and they didn't hit much of anything that they were shooting at. Could they have gotten away? Who knows. They didn't even try to get away until they had half the LE resources in Kali surrounding them. One thing they had working slightly against them was that a normal beat patrol cop saw them on the sidewalk outside the bank, and had an armed robbery response in progress right as they walked through the door.
LaEscopeta
Member
I remember the show last night saying they had 4 rifles:
- 2 AK-47s with full auto, with stick magazines and home made or home modified drum magazines, at least one of which they carried into the bank.
- A Bushmaster? “M-16” .223 caliber, illegally modified for full auto (carried into bank? in the car?)
- Some sort of .308 caliber rifle, not full auto, in the trunk of the car.
It also said they each had a 9 mm Berretta handgun.
They showed footage from a helicopter of one of the robbers very deliberately taking the .308 from the trunk, cocking it and firing it. Don’t know if was actual or reenactment, but he looked liked he was just calmly taking shots at the range.
- 2 AK-47s with full auto, with stick magazines and home made or home modified drum magazines, at least one of which they carried into the bank.
- A Bushmaster? “M-16” .223 caliber, illegally modified for full auto (carried into bank? in the car?)
- Some sort of .308 caliber rifle, not full auto, in the trunk of the car.
It also said they each had a 9 mm Berretta handgun.
They showed footage from a helicopter of one of the robbers very deliberately taking the .308 from the trunk, cocking it and firing it. Don’t know if was actual or reenactment, but he looked liked he was just calmly taking shots at the range.
ny32182
Member
I've also heard that they were indeed on some form of nerve calming drugs during the entire event.
armoredman
Member
If they had had the slightest idea of what to do with the weapons and armor they had, a great number of people, LE and civilian, would have been dead. We can only thank the Good Lord above that these idiots were completely incompetant.
TonyB
Member
The whole thing is an example of why we NEED to practice head shots.....
Stickjockey
Member
You mean the History Channel aired a show that had nothing to do with Nazis?
Amazing.
Amazing.
atblis
Member
308 rifle
G3 stolen from the Mexican Army (so I've heard).
G3 stolen from the Mexican Army (so I've heard).
El Tejon
Member
History Channel=Hitler Channel.
Bad info for the HC. Let's write in and see if we can get THR to do their fact checking.
Bad info for the HC. Let's write in and see if we can get THR to do their fact checking.
Does anybody know the truth? Since all the weapons were left on scene it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
The did say M-15 assualt rifles. And repeatedly mentioned them having AK-47 in .223. Also said they had a HK91.
Whats the story on the AKs? Were they 47s in 7.62 or 74s in 5.XX?
The did say M-15 assualt rifles. And repeatedly mentioned them having AK-47 in .223. Also said they had a HK91.
Whats the story on the AKs? Were they 47s in 7.62 or 74s in 5.XX?
I followed this pretty closely when it happen and as I recall the reports were the AK types they were using were semiauto AK(M?)'s that had illegally been converted to fully auto with caliber being 7.62x39mm.
Probably the Chinese clones.
Some reports said they were using amor piercing ammo.
The things that stands out to me is that with all the ammo spent by both sides that the only two killed were the bad guys and one by his own hand and that one good guy with my scoped Contender Carbine in 223 Remington could have ended this soon after it started.
It gets back to it is not how much lead you put down range but where you put it.
Probably the Chinese clones.
Some reports said they were using amor piercing ammo.
The things that stands out to me is that with all the ammo spent by both sides that the only two killed were the bad guys and one by his own hand and that one good guy with my scoped Contender Carbine in 223 Remington could have ended this soon after it started.
It gets back to it is not how much lead you put down range but where you put it.
Otherguy Overby
member
Luck.
North Hollywood is lucky the bandits had full auto.
So is Southern California.
If the bandits didn't have full auto, the LAPD and others wouldn't have had to keep their heads down. If they would have been able to return fire, in their usual manner, the cops there would have shot holes in everything and everybody all the way to Tijuana.
North Hollywood is lucky the bandits had full auto.
So is Southern California.
If the bandits didn't have full auto, the LAPD and others wouldn't have had to keep their heads down. If they would have been able to return fire, in their usual manner, the cops there would have shot holes in everything and everybody all the way to Tijuana.
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