Hearing protection in the military?

[Deleted member 66305]

I have a question for those out there who have served in the military:

I have never heard of soldiers using any kind of hearing protection, except for training. Presumably, you want the troops to be able to hear anything.

But I would imagine after the first gunshot fired, you'd be nearly deaf (temporarily) anyway.

I fired a 1911 outside without hearing protection once. One shot. I wanted to know how bad it would be, if i ever had to fire defensively without hearing protection, so it wouldn't be such a surprise.

I was nearly deaf for about 10 minutes. My ears were ringing the rest of the day, and felt like they were stuffed with cotton.

It was a couple days before they were back to normal.

That was one shot.

Soldiers out in the field, after being subjected to repeated gunshots -- how are they not deaf?

 

[elChupacabra!]

Yeah, I've wondered that too. I knew a Sergeant Major in the Army who was a combat engineer and he had earplugs that he wore around his neck in a small green plastic container, maybe for blowing stuff up? And I've also seen soldiers at Fort Sill, OK, where they have all the artillery, with those earplugs too... so I would assume that they wear earplugs when opening up those big guns... but what about individual soldiers in a fire team? It seems like one burst from a SAW and EVERYONE would be deaf.

 

[guitarhero323]

good question i always wondered that too

 

[FourTeeFive]

I have wondered the same thing. At $1000 per person they might be using in-ear electronic protection. Compared to what they pay for body armor and other gear it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Rob62]

There was an article on this very issue in USA Today a few days ago. According to the report about 20% of servicemen that have been in combat suffer some type of hearing loss. That, combined with various degrees of TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) and it 'aint pretty.

The problem is kinda obvious. Wearing earplugs does protects your hearing, but doesn't allow you to verbally communicate once the rounds start flying. Also at what point do you put the earplugs in - as soon as the first shot - not gonna happen. So most grunts just go on patrols without wearing any hearing protection. Its available to them, though not worn by most.

(Verbal communication vs. visual hand and arms signals is a whole other topic)

Electronic muffs are just plain hot to wear. And with only one exception that I know of, do not fit under a Kevlar or Pro Tec. There are a lot of state of the art inner canal electronic hearing protectors that would be ideal for combat use IMHO. But these are expensive - only a few hi speed low drag people wear these, who's budgets are if you want it or need it you got it


Regards,
Rob

 

[rocklock]

My dad was in the artillery in WWII. When he went to division reunions, everyone would be wearing aids because of hearing loss from firing howitzers without hearing protection. Dad said about all they had to use were cotton balls and their fingers in those days.

 

[nalioth]

When I was in the Army, we were all required to wear our earplugs attached to our top (unused) BDU buttonhole.

There was a little container for them with a short keychain/dogtag type chain.

It was considered "part of the uniform" in my unit, and if you didn't have yours, you were "out of uniform".

 

[FourTeeFive]

There are a lot of state of the art inner canal electronic hearing protectors that would be ideal for combat use IMHO. But these are expensive - only a few hi speed low drag people wear these, who's budgets are if you want it or need it you got it

I've seen pictures of LEO's using them. Here are some links:

http://www.earinc.com/p1-electronic-law.php

http://www.espamerica.com/

There's another major one that I will try to find as well.

 

[jagugator]

In the Navy if you work in areas that are considered high noise (the flight deck, engineering spaces) you are required to have a hearing test done annually. We also get fitted (sized is a better term) ear plugs and are supposed to be worn along with ear muffs for double hearing protection.

I will say that all of the hours I have as a sensor operator flying in helicopters has taken a toll on my hearing. When your young double hearing protection is just uncomfortable. Live and learn.

 

[SapperMapper]

$1000 in-ear digital noise reduction? In the regular Army?
Oh, that's a hoot, tell me another one...

I am a Combat Engineer - 12.5 years active, about a year now in the Reserves. Yeah, we wore earpro on the range, or when blowing demo. But in real life? Not much.

If you're a crewmember on an armored vehicle (APC or Bradley) you wear a CVC helmet. Everyone can (should) put earplugs in but few do.

The newer humvees have an intercom system that does have noise reduction, and provides some level of protection. But it's only good while you're in the vehicle.

There are also some new "combat earplugs" which are VERY good. We got them in Iraq in 05-06, but I don't know if they are still an issue item. They're double ended, green/yellow, and one side has baffled tube running down the middle which reduces the "impulse" noise associated with gunfire. I've worn them on the range and they're very effective. You can still hear spoken communication, although yelling is better. The other side is a complete block, more like a traditional plug. Good if you're in a constant high-intensity noise environment where talking isn't all that important.

Here's a link: http://www.uscav.com/prod_9549_tabid_548_Combat+Arms+Ultrafit+Reusable+E-A-R+Plugs

 

[Rob62]

SapperMapper - the ear plugs you linked to seem like a good product for the average grunt.

I was not aware that anyone made something like this. No electronics or batteries. Should be standard issue. I wonder how many units have these?

 

[Crazy Carl]

I've got over 20 yrs, active Army & yeah, they give us earplugs, but it's tough to always use them. Protection vs. communication & all that.

Always wear 'em on the range, but as a (former) mortar maggot, we frequently just stuck our fingers in our ears, once a round was "hung". Occasionally you'd goof/forget & lemme tell ya, the muzzle blast from a 4-Deuce (107mm mortar), at close proximity will ring yer bell but good.

'Sposed to wear 'plugs in military aircraft, as well. Some do, some don't. When I'm on a jump, I need to be able to hear everything that's going on around me. Y'know, like jump commands & stuff. It's loud inside a C130, but sitting in the door of a UH60 at altitude & speed is brutally loud.

Eh, we do what we can, but a lot of us are more concerned with getting the job done than conserving our hearing. Price you pay, I guess.

 

[SapperMapper]

Rob62 - I don't know, but it might be a nice thing to throw in a care package. Some units have good supply sergeants, and some don't, ya know what I mean?

 

[jakemccoy]

The problem is kinda obvious. Wearing earplugs does protects your hearing, but doesn't allow you to verbally communicate once the rounds start flying.

After a short while of being exposed to explosions, you can't hear any voices, right? So, the advantage you describe works for the first day of explosions maybe (?).

My hearing is ok. I suspect that I can hear people better with hearing protection than many soldiers can hear without hearing protection. So, soldiers should wear hearing protection from the start while their hearing is good.

Also, there are lots of hearing protection options that will suppress explosion sounds but allow voices. Discomfort is the main obstacle here. Overcome it by trying out various options.

 

[CountGlockula]

Adrenaline filters out hearing damage.

 

[K5mitch]

Luckily for me, all I had to deal with was noise on the flightline.

I think the B-2 is the worst I've dealt with, both in ground idle noise, and TRT noise.

 

[Hoplophile]

I've seen pictures of LEO's using them. Here are some links:

http://www.earinc.com/p1-electronic-law.php

http://www.espamerica.com/

There's another major one that I will try to find as well.

Okay, that's really, really cool. I'd love to tinker with a pair. Where's the cheap knockoff version thereof?

 

[akodo]

wait a second, you went deaf for 10 minutes from firing a single round of 45 acp?

were you holding the muzzle right by your ear?

ear plugs are great, I double up with muffs for indoor ranges, however, people have been firing handguns and rifles with no protection and as long as it is only a shot or two, the damage is very minimal (probably less than a few hours listening to the stero cranked)

Remember, there are two halves to the exposure equation, level of volume and time exposed.

Anyways, think of all the hunters who were out with 30-06s in the 1950s hunting deer and elk and whatever else. How many of them experienced 10 minutes of deafness?

I know I've sneaked my hearing protection off when outdoors shooting just to see how loud it was, and it WAS loud so they went right back on fast, but no deafness was suffered, again, probably more damage done from an afternoon using a weed-wacker

 

[Checkman]

Twenty-two years ago (1986) I was attending the Army's Basic Training at Fort. Leonard Wood in Missouri. The day we were on the M60 Machinegun Range I lost my rubber ear plugs while waiting to go up onto the firing line.

I didn't want to bring it to the drill sergeant's attention that I couldn't find my plugs so I did not get the styrofoam plugs. Those of you who have gone through the various basic trainings know that you strive not to call attention to yourself. Regardless of the damage that might occurr.

I had M-60 machine guns (7.62 mm NATO) on either side of me hammering away and I was also firing an M-60. To say it was loud and physically uncomfortable would be an understatement.

Nevertheless I had a hearing test several months later and my hearing was right within normal range. It still is twenty-two years later. Doctor told me it would take continous long term exposure to that type of decibles before the hearing loss would become permanent.

Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

In the real world there isn't usually time to pull out the ear plugs. Combat and firefights are dangerous. I guess the military excepts hearing loss as part of the expense involved.

 

[Pat McCoy]

RE: Adrenaline
Huh, what'd you say? Speak up a little!

The so called "adrenaline" protection didn't help me. 40% loss in both ears after one tour in RVN.

 

[MMCSRET]

I went in the USN in 1963, it was in 1969 when we were mandated hearing protection for specified jobs, if I checked out a scaling tool to chip paint, a pair of MOUSE EARS came with it and had to be used and turned back in. Flight deck personnel were the first to be issued personal hearing protection, By 1973 when we went all volunteer it was mandatory for every body in or around a noise laden environment.

 

[jnyork]

I shoot once or twice a week with a bunch of 25-30 older guys (geezers, actually) most of whom have only been casual hunters or shooters in their past lives. EVERY ONE OF THEM has at least a moderate degree of hearing loss, some are almost totally deaf! All of them will readily admit to having never used hearing protection for anything until recent years.

The effects of noise damage to your ears are cumulative, that is, a shot fired today and a shot fired next week damage your ears just as much as two shots fired in the next 5 seconds. And yes, .22's WILL cause hearing damage, even though you may think they are quiet enough. They aren't. Add in noise from industrial jobs, service in the Armed Forces, etc, over a person's lifetime, it is no wonder you so frequently see an older person with two hearing aids.!

To answer the original question, I have known many, many veterans in my life, I cannot recall meeting one who had been in actual combat situations that did not have at least some hearing loss. 10% disability for hearing loss is the most common disability granted by the VA.

 

[jetrecbn]

I only wear earplugs on the range. I don't like them while I'm on patrol or in a convoy. I want to hear every little thing. When I'm in the truck, I'm monitoring 2-3 radios. When I'm outside and the shots start ringing out I don't notice the noise or the noise does not bother me. As long as I hear more booms on my end then wizzes, I'm OK with that. It's the same reason why I don't wear rain gear. The noise of the water hitting the fabric really messes up your ability to hear. The Army does not pay for deafness because they provide earplugs to all Soldiers. Even with the new generation baffled earplugs, they just don't cut it for me.

 

[jobu07]

'Sposed to wear 'plugs in military aircraft, as well. Some do, some don't. When I'm on a jump, I need to be able to hear everything that's going on around me. Y'know, like jump commands & stuff. It's loud inside a C130, but sitting in the door of a UH60 at altitude & speed is brutally loud.

Eh, we do what we can, but a lot of us are more concerned with getting the job done than conserving our hearing. Price you pay, I guess.

+1 my sentiments exactly.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I wonder if it would be cost effective to just issue suppressors to everyone (and make new rifles integrally suppressed). That might cause a reliability issue though and I don't think anybody would be exited about adding 6+ inches to their rifle especially for clearing buildings.
I have hunted for 16+ years and don't notice the noise when shooting at an animal (of course there is a high pitched ringing as I type this) but forget your ears at the bench and it'll remind you real quick when you let one fly. I think just because it doesn't hurt doesn't mean the damage isn't being done. The AR seems worse than my 7mm-08.