Heckler & Koch USC Carbine

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Glock4good

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I have been thinking of buying a rifle. I have thought about an AR style or the Heckler & Koch USC 45 Carbine. My range does not allow rifle ammo but will allow pistol caliber carbines. The nearest range for rifles is about 45 minutes away as compared to 15. Anyone have experience with the H&K?
 
The USC is rather expensive. Around $1,200. You could buy the Beretta Cx4 for half of that.
 
I have one, and it's OK. It is, as noted, expensive and limited to 10 round magazines. The trigger is a little chunky, and there are few aftermarket parts. I had to hunt a bit to find a rail to mount a red dot. I don't like the factory sights - not "irons" as they're plastic. And it requires a hex wrench to strip.

It is pretty well built, though, and if you can afford it you'll probably like it.

I prefer the .45 ACP round in the AR-15 platform.
 
HK makes quality firearms, but HK also charges an arm and a leg for them. Personally, I agree with MAKster, just go with a Cx4, it'd be cheaper and I think they are sexy little carbines.
 
I have one and love it. It is one of the most fun carbines I have. Balances nicely, very mild recoil, good accuracy. I altered it so it takes 30 round grease gun mags now. :evil:

USC.jpg
 
i have one and LOVE it.

however, i got mine (actually a UMP conversion done by HDPS using grease gun mags) back in the day when they were still $700 and the conversions were under $2k. They've doubled since then and I wouldn't pay today's prices for one UNLESS i lived in some sort of jacked up area where AR15s weren't available.

It's a solid, reliable gun, and it is a TON of fun to shoot, especially after you SBR it. However, good luck getting replacement parts. And look carefully before you let some yahoo do a conversion on it. I have seen some hideous conversions. HDPS was awesome several years ago when I got mine, but I haven't dealt with them in years.
 
Olympic Arms is the only manufacturer of .45 ACP AR-15 uppers, but Kurt's Kustom can make one for you. I've got two of the Olys and they are just fine.

Magazines are a question with most caliber conversions for the AR platform. For one of my .45s I use Uzi mags modified by Oly with a mag block welded on. The rub there is that the Uzi mags are scarce and expensive.

Alternately there are at least three ways to use 30 round grease gun magazines: 1.) Bazooka Brothers BAZ45 lower, 2.) CNC's AR45 lower and 3.) Cavalry Arms MKII polymer lower with a Hahn Precision magazine block. The standard AR-15 lower's magwell is not wide enough to take the GG mags.

I have a BAZ45 and it works well:
BAZ45_magwell01.jpg
 
The USC is rather expensive. Around $1,200. You could buy the Beretta Cx4 for half of that.
Click to expand...

Very true. One could have a high point with an ATI stock for half the price (or less) of the Beretta though.
 
I'm curious as to why you have selected .45. Do 9 and .40 not get the job done for ya?
 
I bought one back in February specifically to do a UMP conversion on it. It shoots great, and I'm VERY happy with the finished product.

HDPS did the conversion and chopped the barrel to 7". It's just as accurate now as it was before. I have ZERO problem putting all 25 rounds in a softball sized group, rapid fire at 15 yds.

I've added an HK rail and VFG since I took this pic.

fmqsck.jpg
 
The HK USC Carbine in .45 - because you suck, we hate you, and 16" barrels give lower velocities in .45 than 8" barrels.

First decide if you are willing to drive to the rifle range. If you are, get a AR-15 in .223 without hesitating, or consider a Saiga for an alternative.

If you aren't, seriously consider an AR-15 in 9mm. It's relatively cheap to shoot, it would be effective if needed for defense, and you can get fairly decent 30rd mags from C-Products. It would also accept a .223 or any other caliber of AR upper if you later want another option. You could get an AR with both 9mm and .223 uppers for around the price of a single USC carbine, and it would be cheaper to shoot.

Some other pistol caliber carbines worth considering:
Beretta CX4 Storm
Uzi carbine from Vector Arms
Ruger PC9 and PC4 (latter is discontinued, but likely still in stores)
Lusa (from ptr91.com company; HK look, but based on a Portugese design that is simple blowback)
HK MP5 clones from Vector Arms (at least you're getting a more interesting mechanism than the USC)
Calico carbines (anyone want a 100rd magazine?)
 
Z-Michigan said:
The HK USC Carbine in .45 - because you suck, we hate you, and 16" barrels give lower velocities in .45 than 8" barrels.
Click to expand...

Just going from memory here - .45 ACP 230 gr. ball is +/-850 fps out of a 5" barrel and +/-1100 fps out of a 16" barrel; what kind of velocities do you get out of an 8" barrel?
 
Some other pistol caliber carbines worth considering:
Beretta CX4 Storm
Uzi carbine from Vector Arms
Ruger PC9 and PC4 (latter is discontinued, but likely still in stores)
Lusa (from ptr91.com company; HK look, but based on a Portugese design that is simple blowback)
HK MP5 clones from Vector Arms (at least you're getting a more interesting mechanism than the USC)
Calico carbines (anyone want a 100rd magazine?)
Click to expand...

I would have to add a H-Point to that list

It is a great pistol caliber carbine for the money

The only problem with it is ... it is uglier then hell
 
Just going from memory here - .45 ACP 230 gr. ball is +/-850 fps out of a 5" barrel and +/-1100 fps out of a 16" barrel; what kind of velocities do you get out of an 8" barrel?
Click to expand...

I'm having trouble finding much chrono data on .45 ACP out of a 16" barrel. One reliable test I did find is an American Rifleman test of the Thompson civilian 16.5" barrel version:

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/pr_ar0603.html

They are showing 230gr FMJ ammo running between 871 and 928 fps average out of a 16.5" barrel. Based on the brands listed I would expect the same ammo to be running c. 850 fps out of a 5" barrel, and definitely no less than 800 fps. So, the extra 11.5" of barrel gets you probably just 20 to 80fps extra, and at the absolute most maybe 130 fps extra.

I would welcome additional reliable chrono data. But IMHO the long and short is that .45 ACP is a moderate pressure cartridge using fast powders, and due to the bore size there is an enormous swept volume, so extra barrel length is a big losing proposition. Military and pre-NFA Thompson .45's had a 10.5" barrel, which I believe was chosen as the optimum length for max velocity. And that's max, cut it by 2-3" and you might lose just a few fps.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_t1bsb_f.html

Most of the pistol (autoloader) cartridges max out their velocity in just 8-10" of barrel. 16" barreled 9mm carbines show similar results to the .45, though slightly better because it is a higher pressure cartridge with a smaller bore diameter. The bigger volume revolver/levergun cases like .357 mag and .44 mag tend to be a different story, because they have so much more case volume and can use slower burning powders.
 
z-michigan, i think you got some bad data there

i chrono'd several of my handload recipies in a 1911 and a HK USC and the USC pretty consistently added about 200 fps.

my "load 6" avg 860 fps in the 1911, and 1073 in the USC
my "load 8" avg 777 fps in the 1911, and 987 fps in the USC

(the latter was a light load for competition)
 
i'll have to go look them up later, but the only two pistol powders i've used in 45acp are VV320 (I think) and titegroup. also, they're either winchester ball 230g or hornady xtp 200g as those were the only bullets i was using at that time.

it's been almost 4 years and i'm doing this from memory (i had the books in front of me last night)
 
The HK USC Carbine in .45 - because you suck, we hate you, and 16" barrels give lower velocities in .45 than 8" barrels.
Click to expand...

You know why that is right, the letter did not explain that,

1968 GCA
1989 IB

That being said I have shot the UMP in .40 and enjoyed it you would need to have the mods done to get it to look "stock" though, and then there is the SBR issue, from what I hear the Cx4 is good but in the end it is your money. Good luck and let us know what you decide to go with.

In a side note the Cx4 take 92 mags as well, (in case you have a 92 for dual comp)
 
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