Help! AR15 problem

[RNB65]

A buddy of mine picked up a brand spanking new Rock River AR this morning. He's giving it a good cleaning tonight and he's having a major problem getting the bolt to close. He says it's stopping just short of going into battery and he has to push hard on the forward assist to get it to close and lock.

Once closed, it's hard as heck to open. He has to brace the butt against his chest and pull on the charging handle with both hands to get it open (he's 6'5" and strong as an ox).

Any idea what the problem is and how to fix it (short of sending it back to RRA)?

Thanks.

 

[Risasi]

Any chance he has the bolt jammed forward on the bolt carrier? And good grief, tell him to stop forcing it.

Is it readily available so you can look at it, thereby giving us a direct report? Also do you/does he have a digital camera handy?

 

[RNB65]

No, he lives on the other side of town and he's passing info along in a series of frantic phone calls. It's a RRA Predator Pursuit with the Wilson stainless HBAR.

He said after opening and closing a few times it's now fully closing and locking when he drops the bolt using the bolt catch. But it's still a bear to open and requires a stout two handed tug on the handle. I'm thinking it's just a really tight bolt and will loosen up once it's fired and the locking lugs wear in a bit.

 

[blackhawk2000]

Tell him to keep forcing it.



Seriously, tell him to stop and let someone who knows what they are doing look at it.

 

[RNB65]

He got tired of working on it and gave up. We're meeting at the range tomorrow morning and I'll take a look and see if he reassembled anything incorrectly when he cleaned it.

Thanks.

 

[Roadkill]

Firing pin retaining pin could be in backwards. It fits in the bolt carrier so it is below the surface. If it is reversed - inserted from the other side- the pin head sitcks out and binds against the receiver. By forcing it repeatedly he's either wearing it down or eroding the inside of the receiver. Just an unnecesary additional comment, handling a firearm is like making love to a woman: if force is necessary you are doing something wrong.

 

[chrisslamar]

Make sure to check that there is no shipping grease or other junk around where the bolt locks into battery, and make sure to lube it up nice after cleaning it. Otherwise to quote the great AK vs AR vs Mosin Nagant article "Call the manufacture. It's still under warranty!!!" : )

--Chris

 

[possum]

how much does that gun cost, and he is "forcing it" oh my lord. yeah the first sign of trouble i would have slowed down and thought about it. and if i didn't know what i was doing i would find someone that did. please bro help this guy get squared away, and let us know what the out come is. thanks!

 

[Caimlas]

My money is on there being sheared metal inside the receiver when you take a look at it tomorrow.

DO NOT FIRE IT until you do a thorough strip, detail, and function check on that beasty!

I'm going to guess that he's probably got the firing pin retaining pin in backwards, and bolt cam pin rotated in, and he forced something prior to putting the bolt assembly back in.

Hopefully this will be all that's needed to fix the problem, and he hasn't damaged anything (a guy that big can exert enough force to bend or mutate the steel parts and/or aluminum in the receiver, I imagine): http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/afield.asp

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Did he relube the rifle after cleaning it and did he use enough lube? The problem you are describing sounds like the cam pin isn't camming freely. That could be because it is dry and the gun is new, so everything is tight. Some parts might also be out of spec.

Another option is that there is something in the chamber lugs and he is crunching the bolt in on top of it. You might check that area out real well to make sure there is no crud or debris in there.

 

[RNB65]

All he did was pull the the bolt carrier and charging handle out, clean/oil them and the inside of the receiver, and put them back in. If there's a problem with how the bolt is assembled, it came from the factory that way.

Thanks.

 

[SomeKid]

Just an unnecesary additional comment, handling a firearm is like making love to a woman: if force is necessary you are doing something wrong.

Assuming the previous as true, that must mean the Mosin Nagant was made for men used to Russian women who did not like it any way other than VERY rough.

On topic: If he has to use any force he is using too much. I let an 8 yr old boy try my RRA AR out, and he had no problem at all.

The only time I ever used any force on my AR was when I used some old laquered Wolf, and had a shell get glued in the chamber. I had to tap-rack pretty hard to get it loose, but other than that the rifle gets the gentle treatment and works just fine.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

All he did was pull the the bolt carrier and charging handle out, clean/oil them and the inside of the receiver, and put them back in. If there's a problem with how the bolt is assembled, it came from the factory that way.

Well a quick way to check would be to remove the bolt carrier group from the rifle and push the bolt in and out with his hand. If the bolt seems stiff and reluctant to go in and out, then he should try adding some CLP in the cam pin slot and testing it with his hand again to see if that helped (did he separate the bolt from the bolt carrier? It may be pretty dry in there). If nothing else, it should let him know whether to look at the bolt carrier group or the lugs in the receiver extension.

 

[possum]

when in doubt lube, lube, lube!

 

[RNB65]

Follow-up

Took a look at my bud's AR this morning. Everything appeared normal -- bolt was installed properly, bolt rotated freely in the bolt carrier, firing pin retaining pin was in correctly. All the metal surfaces were clean and well lubed. No damage to either the gas tube or the bolt carrier key. I used a flashlight and magnifying glass to check the chamber. Everything looked perfect.

Something is not cut right with either the bolt lugs or the barrel lugs. They will not lock up. We tried to fire the gun, but we could not get the bolt to close with a round in the chamber. Hammer would drop, but no bang.

Dave's at home right now boxing it up to sending to Rock River on Monday for repair. He's pretty damn disgusted. It's no fun buying a new toy and having it be a lemon. Someone at Rock River screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[taliv]

why would you try to fire a gun when you couldn't get the bolt to close with a round in the chamber? dropping the hammer and hearing a bang in that situation would be a bad thing.

offhand, it sounds phenomenally, galatically stupid.

 

[RNB65]

why would you try to fire a gun when you couldn't get the bolt to close

Because it looked like it was closed. Insert the mag, hit the bolt release, and it closed and appeared to be ready to fire. It just wouldn't.

And because we like to live dangerously.

 

[possum]

please keeep us informed on how rra handles this situation, thanks!

 

[RNB65]

Conclusion

The good news -- My buddy got his Predator back from RRA yesterday and we went plinking last night. It ran perfectly. He dropped a Millet 6-24x scope on it and it was only off a few inches with no adjustments.

The not so good news -- He's still not sure what was wrong with it. When he talked to RRA before shipping it they indicated that they occasionally had a problem with a bad carrier key that would cause the problem he described. He shipped it and they returned it in good working order with no explanation of what the problem was. How this upper passed any type of factory inspection is beyond me.

The other issue was the repair time. When he first called RRA they told him it would be a 2 day turn around. But the actual time was 3 weeks from receipt to shipment. He called them a couple of times to check on the status and the folks he talked to were unable to give him any information at all on the status of the repair. They did send him a lovely black and red RRA hat for his frustrations.

Anywho, it works now and he's happy.

 

[Blackfork]

Interesting to know what went on.

That's a long turn-around. Glad everything turned out OK but sure would be interesting to know what the problem was in the first place.