Help - Looking for a good SxS Shotgun.

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Kestrel

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I'm looking for a SxS 12 ga. for under $2,000. Around $1,500 would be even better.

What are some brands/models that would fit in this price range?

I saw a used Merkel SxS today at a Galyans in like-new condition with a hard case. I don't know what model it was. It came with 2 choke tubes and said made in Germany and had a GSI importer stamp. It was $1995. Is this a good price? It also had an automatic safety, which I don't like. Are these the inconvenience that I think they may be? The guy at Galyans said the shotgun listed for $2695 and the case listed at $300. Don't know...

Is Merkel a good brand? SKB?

Any help would be appreciated.
Steve
 
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Hard call to make,Steve. Inexpensive doubles are rarely good, good ones are rarely inexpensive.

Merkel has a good name, but mostly it's founded on pre WWII shotguns. The company disappeared behind the Iron Curtain for a few decades.Newer stuff hasn't been attracting attention,though they do look more like wingshooting tackle these days.

Some older Merkel doubles were more for shooting slugs and large shot at ground game from high blinds. And most of the older ones are chambered for short cartridges.

SKBs are good medium price shotguns, but any brand has lemons.

Maybe if you told us the intended purpose, we'd be able to give better advice...
 
The Franchi Highlander has definitely peaked my interest. It is in their new catalog. Suggested retail is only $1800. The only online picture I've seen is here: http://www.gunsmagazine.com/Pages/np.html

I haven't had the chance to shoot one yet though...

And I've been reading the Double Gun Journal too much...

About the auto safety- It may or may not annoy you. While shooting clays, it is actually good because it gets you to practice flicking the safety off as you shoulder like you would in the field.
 
I researched SxS's extensively last year. The top runners were Ruger Gold Label, Weatherby Athena SBS, and Huglu S2. I went with the Huglu and am glad I did. It is a beautiful gun, fully engraved, 20 Ga, 26" barrels, 5 choke tubes and hard leather case for about $1100. The Ruger was impossible to find, as was the Weatherby. Maybe by now they are more available. I thought about the Beretta SxS, but it was more than I wanted to spend. I researched the Huglu extensively and finally ordered one. The wood is very nice. It has a splinter forearm, which is its only shortcoming. For your purposes (hunting) it is great. If you want to go shoot clays, look for one with a beavertail fore end. The splinter does not insulate well enough to keep the heat off your fingertips. I have scalded mine on several occasions. This would be a problem on ANY SxS with the splinter fore end. A couple of friends have Winchester Model 23's with the beavertail and it is not as pretty a siloutte, but a much more comfortable grip. (Other makes available also include Charles Daley, Traditions (Fausti), Tri-Star- all between $1000 and $2000) I chose the Huglu based on options, price, looks and owner recommendations. They are worth checking out. I am very happy with mine.
 
OK, Steve, here's some parameters to help you decide.

A double for ringnecks should be capable of using 1 1/4 oz loads without too much pain, have one barrel with a tight choke, and be totable. Unless you're a pixie or a Sumo Wrestler, that means about 7 lbs max. Lighter,within reason, is better.

I'd also want one that shoots a bit higher than 50-50, but that's easy to do.

US made choices here run from the various Savages to the classic doubles like Parker,Fox, Ithaca's NID, LC Smith, etc. Parkeristas have raised their favorites' prices through the stratosphere, but many of the others can be found in your range.

2 1/2" chambers are common, most can be rectified
without draining the bank accounts.

Foreign stuff indeed runs the gamut. Good deals on Belgian and German guild guns oft give a lot of gun for the money, but parts are non existent. The Prussian made Dalys are legendary for quality. Many of these are short shell guns too.

Huglus have their fans, and some make joyful noises.

SKBs are very well made, just like their sibling Weatherbys and Brownings.

As for Greyrock's cogent observation on splinter forends, when I shot doubles so equipped on the range or in a dove field, I wore a leather glove on my forward hand. No burns....

HTH...
 
For an English style game gun, there are no better deals around than those put out by the various Spanish makers.

Find a copy of Terry Weiland's "Spanish Best." Best info. around on the Spanish guns.

For under $2,000, you could have a very fine box lock, or a side lock with fewer frills.

Check out the line of Ugartechea guns sold by Lion Country Supply. All of their box locks are under $2,000, and just a little more will put you into a very decent side lock.


http://lcsupply.com/store/flashcart.cfm?section=302
 
Well, I guess I must also confess that I just like the look of SxS doubles and just want one, hunting or not. I guess hunting just kind of justifies it...

Thanks again for all the help,
Steve
 
The Merkel is a good gun. The Germans tend to overbuild somewhat so it will be very strong and durable.

The Spanish guns in that range are the Ugartechea and AyA boxlocks. I've shot both and would give the edge to the AyA.

The Ruger Gold Label remains a ghost gun. Advertised and promoted but still unavailable. The Weatherby is, in fact, a Spanish gun made by Hermanos Zabala. Respectable makers but not in the same league as AyA and Ugartechea IMHO.

In the lower price ranges, the SKB is a pretty solid effort and the earlier post about the Winchester Model 23 is on target. These guns were made in Japan and are pretty good for the money.

I have no experience with Huglu save for an examination of one of their over/unders. The price was very attractive and the gun seemed like a good value.

Paul
 
PJR,

Thanks for the info. It sounds like the Merkel might be better than the Weatherby?

Steve
 
Steve:

I'd select a Merkel over the Weatherby. Zabala can make a good gun but if Weatherby doesn't have the guns in stock and the Merkel is available in your price range that pretty much makes the decision.

Paul
 
Which Merkel? is it the 47 (or is that the 470??)? Anyway, it is over $2,000, IIRC. At that price point, I think most of the good Spanish makers can deliver more gun for the money. From $1,000 to around $2,500, you 'd be hard pressed to beat an Uggie or AyA. And you would have English styling/handling versus German. Not that one is inherently better, but they are different.

Bottom line, find examples that you can at least shoulder and swing, and better yet, shoot. Pick that which works for you.
 
TaxPhd- Can you elaborate on the German vs. English feel? IIRC many of the Merkel guns are direct copies of Holland and Holland actions and stock designs. For example, the Merkel 47SL.
 
TaxPhd:

Don't disagree with your observations however if the comparison is between Zabala and Merkel I would still choose Merkel. I have seen enough Zabalas to know that while they can make a good gun I've seen some pretty sad examples of workmanship from them. I don't have a prejudice against Spanish guns having owned a couple including my current game gun which is a custom sxs I ordered during a visit to Eibar.

What I would caution against is ordering a Spanish sxs with a single trigger. They don't seem to get those right. The Italians and the Germans seem to put out better single trigger guns. This isn't an issue for me because I prefer double triggers on game guns.

Paul
 
A Merkel with choke tubes? That doesn't sound right but the price is. Get a few days return policy and give it a good work out.
 
I found out today that the Merkel is a model 47E and is about 10 years old. It looks practically new. They told me I could have it for $1875.

Don't know... I still feel like I'm doing this blind...

Thanks,
Steve
 
Daniel,

There are a number of differences - some obvious, some subtle.

Go to the GSI website for some good pictures of Merkels. Then to Cape Outfitters or Thad Scott's site, and look at some of their pictures. While Merkel claims Holland and Holland Style, a quick look will show action styling much more similar to other German and Belgian guns, rather than an English best.

Other differences. Merkels have Greener cross-bolts and rib extensions, rather than a hidden third fastener (was it Purdey that came up with the hidden third fastener? Paul? Anyone?). While these features were invented by the English, they are not often found on a modern best game gun, at least in my experience.

While an English style best (whether built by the English or Spanish) sidelock will be a 5 or 7 pin action, the Merkels appear to be a two pin action. I don't know what is changed inside, and it might not make any real-world difference, but it isn't the same.

Feel is an even more subjective issue. Only way to know is to hold/swing/shoot some examples of each.

I am certainly trying to bad-mouth Merkel. They make a very fine gun. But there are styling issues that don't appeal to me. And at the prices for a new gun, I can get more from a Spanish maker, and in a style that appeals to me, than I can from Merkel.

PJR pointed out some very important issues. Zabala can be a crap shoot. And I would not order a Spanish gun with a single selective trigger. Single non-selective they would probably do all right with, but why? :confused: A proper gun has two barrels and two triggers. If you need a single trigger, buy the Merkel.
 
was it Purdey that came up with the hidden third fastener? Paul? Anyone?). While these features were invented by the English, they are not often found on a modern best game gun, at least in my experience.
Click to expand...

I've heard the third fastener referred to as a "Purdey triple bite" by my knowledgeable British friends so I assume it was Purdey that developed it. Many of the modern best guns only have two fasteners unless they are proofed for 3" loads.

Paul
 
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