Help me choose a .204 for Varminting

[hotwls13]

I NEED a new Varmint rifle. My friend has a new .204 so of course I need one as well. My current setup is a Howa 1500 in 223 with the heavy barrel (1 in 12 twist). This works fine for up to approx 200-250 yds. I want to have the capability to reach out further, but still shoot for a while without being beat up or burning up a barrel.

I will be hunting ground squirrels, jack rabbits and hopefully the occasional Yote. My requirements are as follows:

1. A great trigger out of the box. (preferrably adjustable, but can't be some 8 pounder).
2. Good/Great accuracy out of the box (I don't want to have to bed, or anything else to get "minute of squirrel")
3. I really don't want heavy, but I also want to see my hits/misses. If this means it needs to be heavy (8-9lbs) that is fine. But, if I can get away with 6-7lbs and a 204 still doesn't move off target that would be awesome (I know I probably need heavy).
4. If it needs to be heavy, I like laminate, but if I can get away with lighter, synthetic is fine.
5. NO single shots

OK now that all my nitpicking is done, here is what I have come up with in order of preference:

- Savage 12FV (synthetic with varmint barrel, accutrigger, bedded) $470
- Howa Varminter Supreme (Laminate monte carlo, varmint barrel, adjustable trigger) $575
- Howa Standard Hogue (Hogue stock, standard barrel, adjust trigger) $400
- Howa Varmint Hogue (Hogue stock, Varmint Barrel, adjust trigger) $535
- Remington 700 SPS Varmint (Synthetic, varmint barrel, not good trigger out of the box) $528

Again my reasoning for the order was out of box trigger, out of box accuracy, ability to stay on target for follow up shots and price. One last note, I really like the look of the Howa Varminter Supreme but the Savages come with scope mounts.

 

[skinewmexico]

I'd buy one of these, from a guy on the Savageshooters website:

Model 12FVXP - 204 Ruger.
Savage Model 12 Varmint Rifle - Synthetic Stock
26" Blued 204 Ruger Varmint Barrel
4-12X40mm Simmons Scope
$445.00 + $20.00 S&H to your FFL.

 

[viking499]

I have a CZ varmit and I love the way it shoots. Out of the box accuracy is like all my other cz's. No complaints at all. The barrel is heavier that the american model, but not as heavy as a traditional bull barrel. It also has nice wood on it. Hard to beat the cz's with the single set trigger.

The only thing I have close on your list is a SPS 243, but I have not shot it yet (just got scope on it).

 

[hotwls13]

skinewmwxico: I'd buy one of these, from a guy on the Savageshooters website:

Model 12FVXP - 204 Ruger.
Savage Model 12 Varmint Rifle - Synthetic Stock
26" Blued 204 Ruger Varmint Barrel
4-12X40mm Simmons Scope
$445.00 + $20.00 S&H to your FFL.

That's a pretty good price. Are those scopes any good? I already have a scope, so I wonder what I could get for it on ebay?

 

[skinewmexico]

You'd probably be lucky to get $50.

 

[stubbicatt]

I am a real fan of the CZ firearms, and have never owned one that was inaccurate or unreliable. It has a great set trigger, and detatchable magazines, which are a good thing/ bad thing.

My buddy has a Savage whose trigger is phenomenal, and the accuracy is astounding. I would probably say that it is a more accurate rifle, but loading the magazine with the 204 rounds under the scope seems to give him fits and starts.

For that reason I would recommend you consider the CZ in 204.

 

[stubbicatt]

oops.

 

[Seafarer12]

I would go with the savage. Why cant you get out further with the .223?

 

[ammopoor]

I have a Ruger M77 mark 2 it isn't a target model or have a adjustable trigger although the new rugers do have new adjustable triggers since the accutrigger of savage came out. Bottom line all the heavy hitters in the firearm biz have good products these days just make sure you spend good bucks on glass. I have a clearidge 6-20 40mm mildot scope from www.theopticzone.com and being able to see the impact is awesome espically on prarie dogs. The 204 catridge I believe is one of the best if not the best varmint rounds out there today. The model 12 is a nice piece but weighing 10 pounds before scope, bipod, and sling is chunky. Anyways I'm sure you'll get a great setup no matter what name is on the side of the barrel. Good Luck

 

[duck911]

First great choice on the .204!

The CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar sounds like it would do what you want. Out of the box accuracy, single set trigger that breaks around 1.2 lbs, and a mi-weight barrel that adds weight and stiffness enough so that you get good accuracy and can see your hits, but can still walk with the rifle.

--Duck911

 

[hotwls13]

Seafarer 12: I would go with the savage. Why cant you get out further with the .223?

I am leaning more towards the savage, though all these CZ guys are getting me to look at them.

As for the 223, I really haven't had the chance to shoot anything further out than 250. What would you guys say is the effective range for a 223 on a Yote? My barrel is a 1in12 twist so it needs 55gr or less to be stable. I was thinking that for Coyotes further out, the .204 would be better.

I'm going to keep mulling this over for a while. I need to do some work to my Howa trigger cause its HEAVY. I have a Timney from Midway on order, maybe I will just try to fix this one up a little more and see what it can do.

 

[Seafarer12]

I like the savages because you can change the barrel out fairly easy. They are also accurate and have a decent aftermarket. I also like them because I am a lefty and they make the most left handed guns. I know my father inlaw use to have a savage 223 that was good to 400 yards on prairie dogs. He had worked on his too, it wasn't box stock. The problem is your twist. If it was a little faster I would say just run a heavier bullet. Do you reload any? Have you tried shooting a heavier bullet out of your gun? Sometimes a heavier bullet will stabalize in a 1-12.

 

[Seafarer12]

double

 

[RevolverMan567]

sps varmint

for what its worth I have a post on here about my 700 sps varmint and some load testing idid for it. shoots grat out of the box and pul weight on the new x mark pro trigger is really easy to adjust if i can find he link i will put in on here.

 

[RevolverMan567]

sps varmint

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=336695&highlight=sps+varmint

 

[skinewmexico]

I shot my Savage 223 in our 500m match the other day, it did fine. Both of my Howas have horrible triggers, I bet the Timney makes it sweet. Or you can buy a Savage 204, shoot it out, and rebarrel it as a 20 Practical in 20 minutes.

 

[Seafarer12]

I guess it all depends on how far out he wants to shoot. I would limit a .223 to 500 yards with a heavy bullet. I like the 243 better. You can load the small 55 grainers for small stuff or load a heavier 95 grainer for bigger stuff or really reach out there. One of the rifles on my wish lise if a Savage 12 varmint low pro in 22-250 then get a shilen 243 barrel, maybe a 243 AI. I have plenty of time to make up my mind.

 

[hotwls13]

So, limiting the 223 to 500 yds with a heavy bullet, where would I limit with a lighter 45-50 grain bullet with my 1in12 twist? And would you say that limit includes Coyote, or just squirrels/prairie dogs?

As far as the 243, that is the other caliber I was thinking of instead of 204. I like that I could use the 243 for larger game with the heavy bullets, but also shoot the small Varmint stuff. One thing I haven't read much about though is whether the recoil of a 243 55grn is the same as a .204. If it is in fact the same or really close, then it would meet the requirement of holding on target to see the hits/misses. I just wouldn't want to get beat up by it if I am shooting a bunch of small varmints in a short period of time. If it meets that criteria, I would definitely get the 243 over the 204.

Whatya think?

 

[Whitman31]

The 204 is a great choice, don't rule out the AR platform.

As far as your expectations for it, don't be surprised if it doesn't greatly outshoot your 223, it's got less drop, but is effected more by wind.

 

[viking499]

The 243 will have more recoil than a 204. But it is still not much. My 10 year old doesn't flinch when he shoots his 243. The most he shot was about 15 times in one day at targets over about a 30-45 minute time frame. Never once complained about recoil and no complaints or soreness the next morning.
I really like the 243 for an all around "smaller" caliber. It is the my next step above my 204. I have a tikka ss 243 that is a dream to shoot and is extremely accurate. My wife used it as her deer rifle last year and by the end of the season it went from "my" rifle to "her" rifle. SO, I had to buy another 243 for my rifle. If you want something for varmits and bigger, the 243 would be worth looking into. There is a good choice of bullet selection. Since I have a 204, I only shoot 100 grain in the 243's. But for varmits, you can cut that down to the 55 grain option. It would also mean one gun instead of 2, which some people like for money reasons.

 

[skinewmexico]

I've shot my 223AI to 500 with 55g bullets. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a coyote at that range. You're shooting a thin-skinned dog, bullets don't bounce off.

 

[hotwls13]

OK guys, I am convinced to try using my Howa 223 for now. I need to either get a timney trigger or have the trigger worked on. I may have to switch to a laminate stock though as the synthetic that came with it seems to have a lot of flex.

As far as using a AR, I would love to, but unfortunately I reside in the Republik of Kalifornistan. :banghead:

Viking499:

You were saying your son shot like 15 rnds in 30-45 min without a problem. Was he shooting the 55grn or the 100grn? I'm hoping for hunts/shooting to be like 100-200+ rnds in a day (not everyday, but hopefully we can find some good squirrel fields).

Have you shot 55grn bullets through your 243? If so, can you see the hits/misses, or is there enough recoil that you have to recover your shot picture?

 

[viking499]

His shots were all with 100 grain. That is all we shoot in our 243's. Have never tried the 55's or anything else other than 100 grain. That is our deer caliber of choice. Although I have a new 6.5x55 I will hunt with this year. I have my 204 for smaller grain choices. If I only had one choice for a muti-purpose gun for things up to deer size, I would go with the 243 and shoot light and heavy loads. As far as helping with recoil, a good pad would help, but I don't think 243's have a lot of kick to start with. Yes it is more than a 204 but a whole lot less than my 7 mag.

 

[hotwls13]

It's not so much the recoil on me I am worried about. It's the fast paced shooting at long distances. If I happen to miss, I want to see where the bullet hit so I know the holdover on the second shot, plus I would like to still have the squirrel/pdawg in my scope. I have heard so many good things about the .204 especially the fact it has almost no recoil. I'm still considering the 243, heck I may end up with one of each once this is all over.

 

[24kshooter]

Weatherby 204 Varmit Special - tan stock - some are as accurate as the sub moa's.