Help me choose a pistol.

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bg226

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I'm getting tired of the Beretta Px4 9mm.

- 19,000 rounds and not a single jam.
- Low Recoil - Feels like a .38 SPL, not a 9mm.
- Awesome accuracy.

So whats the problem?

I don't want a safety on the thing. The safety switch brings an extra element of confusion. From accidently flipping the safety on, to forgetting that it is even engaged in the first place. This extra element also adds to reaction time.

What I want?

A Reliable full size 9mm without any safety at all. (NO magazine safety, manual safety, automatic safety or decocker)
 
Glocks do not qualify as they have a trigger safety.

I've been looking at the SIG P226 DAK and it sure is interesting.
 
Conversion Time

Quote: So whats the problem?

I don't want a safety on the thing. The safety switch brings an extra element of confusion. From accidentally flipping the safety on, to forgetting that it is even engaged in the first place. This extra element also adds to reaction time.

What I want?

A Reliable full size 9mm without any safety at all. (NO magazine safety, manual safety, automatic safety or decocker)
------------------------

You already own such a gun, but need to have it converted to a G-model.

You're talking about less than a 100 bucks, and about 10 days if you send it out. Go over to the Beretta Forum, they have a Sticky Thread on the G-model conversion, and you can either do it yourself, or hook up with Dave O.

Then you have a "decocker only" gun, no safety, no magazine safety, no OOPS! Damn! .. safety was on, surprises anymore.

And you have a choice as to the decocker levers as well. Leave the Batwing levers that came with the gun on, or go with the flush, Stealth levers.

http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/


LS
 
Get the Sig P226 (or whatever their 9mm model is )

The decocker is not really a safety because the gun will go bang everytime a bullet is in the chamber and the trigger is pulled (regardless what position the hammer is in)
 
I take it you mean a safety switch as all modern handguns have some type of safety.
Why don't you just leave the safety switch alone on your Beretta? It's a conventional DA/SA so you don't have to operate the safety switch and being that the switch is on the slide it's not like you will accidently hit it.
 
My safeties hardly get used. For me, I carry my guns chamber loaded, hammer decocked, safety off. Try it ;)
 
Actually, that is the problem

Quote: Why don't you just leave the safety switch alone on your Beretta? It's a conventional DA/SA so you don't have to operate the safety switch and being that the switch is on the slide it's not like you will accidently hit it.
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Yep, the Beretta Px4 F-models safety-decocker levers are wide, Batwings.

And I have, more than once, holstered the gun, then pulled it out and went for a DA pull, and nothing.. As the Batwing lever can easily, without hearing or feeling, be pushed down into safety mode, along with a :what: look and feeling when you go do squeeze one off and it's in safety mode, unknown to you.

The G-conversion, inexpensive, and with the Stealth levers (basically flush to the slide, with ribbing for use, is the easy route to solving that problem.


LS
 
It's your gun, of course, and your standards, but I wouldn't put the Glock trigger safety (or an XD grip safety, for that matter) in the same category as a thumb-actuated safety that you can accidentally move or forget it's on. Rather, they strike me as similar in nature to the firing pin block. (Is that a "safety"? I'm sure the lawyers think so.) Something that keeps the gun from firing unless it's held and manipulated properly, but becomes invisible (i.e. automatically gets out of the way) if the gun IS held and manipulated properly.

I agree with your feelings about magazine safeties (neither of my Browning Hi Powers still have theirs,) and understand your feelings about the safeties you can choose to manipulate (even accidentally.) But if a Glock, or an XD otherwise would suit your purposes . . .

OTOH, if you want the absolute in simplicity, look at the HK squeeze cockers, either the single or double stack. Squeeze the grip and it's cocked and has a short single-action-type trigger pull, relax your grip and it's uncocked and safe. I think the only button 'em is the magazine release. Supposed to be tack drivers. Out of production but can be found.
 
Glocks do not qualify as they have a trigger safety.
Click to expand...
not a manual safety.... its just like a firing pin safety, almost all guns have those so what, your sig is safety-less? no, as it does to have a firing pin safety, again not manual, and the beretta has one so therefore the only way you can manually take off the firing pin safety is a steady hand and a paper clip or to field strip the gun and poke it. please understand the working of safeties and the correct use of firearms, that or spend a good time reading the manual you throw in the trash or the back of the safe.
 
briansp82593 said:
not a manual safety.... its just like a firing pin safety
Click to expand...

Actually the trigger-safety on the glock is manual, it prevents movement of the trigger unless the lever is depressed.

briansp82593 said:
please understand the working of safeties and the correct use of firearms, that or spend a good time reading the manual you throw in the trash or the back of the safe.
Click to expand...

The Glock manual tells me that to actuate the trigger, the trigger finger must actuate the trigger safety.
 
Glocks do not qualify as they have a trigger safety.

Actually the trigger-safety on the glock is manual, it prevents movement of the trigger unless the lever is depressed.
Click to expand...

Have you ever shot a Glock, or a gun with a Glock-like trigger safety like the Springfield XD? Honestly, you do not notice it. You needn't pay it any attention at all.

No safety at all? CZ-100.
 
The Glock manual tells me that to actuate the trigger, the trigger finger must actuate the trigger safety.
Click to expand...

I think this is the Glock lawyers writing defensively, in close cooperation with their marketing department's "3 safeties" slogan. As lee n. field noted, if you've ever fired a Glock you know that it is virtually impossible to place your finger on the trigger without automatically "actuating the trigger safety." (Don't lawyer up on that statement - I'm talking about finger on trigger in a position so that you could pull the trigger - not just touching the side of the trigger or something - the way you would normally grip the gun for firing.) So it's the same (functionally) as "actuating the firing pin safety with your trigger finger" - that just happens as you pull the trigger toward the release point. Or, to change arenas for the sake of illustration, the same as "releasing the hammer block safety with your trigger finger" as you pull through a double action shot with a modern revolver - it's just something that happens mechanically in the course of firing a shot.

Glockmeister's description is probably one that most Glock shooters would recognize as applying to their gun:

The Glock has no externally located safety devices which need to be activated manually. All of the safety devices function automatically. The devices are sequentially de-activated as the trigger is depressed (as the Glock is fired).
Click to expand...

For Glockmeister's illustrated explanation of how each of the 3 "safeties" works, you could check out http://glockmeister.com/safeties.shtml

Of course, some people just don't like Glocks (I'm one - grip angle is wrong for me - I prefer the XD angle) and that's fine. But you have to appreciate the Glock's legendary reliability, simple and consistent manual of arms, and vast array of readily available accessories (sights, magazines and holsters come immediately to mind - safety-less as it may be, how many holsters do you think there are for the CZ-100?) I certainly wouldn't "unconsider" a Glock on any "manual safety" ground.
 
Wrangler5,

Thank you for the superb post.

I think DAO guns like the SIG DAK and HK LEM fit the description better than Glocks, but your points are well explained.
 
Don't want a Glock don't get a Glock but your justifying it based on the trigger safety is a degree of pickyness that is just downright silly.

Sure you will be quite happy with the Sig or HK, nice choices.

Monty
 
Looks like you have limited your choice to either a Sig (always nice) or a Kahr. Personally, I opted for the XD9sc.
 
First off why would you want to get rid of your gun if it has been that reliable for you. And why are you still getting the safety confused after 19,000 rnds?? Anyway besides that if your looking to get a good full sizes 9mm, get the XD9.
 
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