Help me fight the temptation, please.

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Dec 28, 2002
Please, please, please talk me out carrying illegally at work.

I work alone in a toll booth, and I am there until fairly late at night. I deal with a lot of irate people, and some really freaky people. If something bad ever happened and I couldn't get to the phone, that'd be all she wrote.

Now I can usually talk myself out of it. But some days, my gut is really screaming for me to "strap it on."

Please, talk me out of doing something illegal.

you've gotta do what you gotta do, bro.

Sometimes "illegal" things are still morally right, and necessary.

Or, to put it in an economics paradigm - is the risk of being caught and charged with some crime greater than the risk of being caught in a situation where a sidearm could prevent harm or death to your person?
I'm not going to talk you out of anything...

Is it truly illegal for you to carry there? Utah state law stipulates taht only courthouses and airports past security gates are off limits.

If it is just the policy of your employer rather than LAW I would carry.

Utah is pretty lax about this whole thing anyway. Carrying in a prohibited area without malicious intent is a misdemenor, which means you may not even lose your permit if you get busted. (which you shouldn't unless you have to use the thing anyway)

Plus, would you rather face court or leave your family to grieve for you after you are dead?
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Illegal doesn't necessarily mean wrong.

All a personal question of how the consequences of getting caught weigh against the likelihood that you'd need to defend yourself.

And temperment.
You might also request an armed guard. If they refuse to protect you then you have legal recourse to say that they are unnessisarly endangering you in your workplace. I would recommend consulting with a lawyer familiar with the state laws for self defense and the workplace.

Even if they give you armed security or let you carry you really aren't much safer. If you're truely worried definately look for a new job.
Is it legal for tollbooth workers to carry while on the job? If you have a CHL, then I'd advise talking to a superior about allowing you to bring it (keeping it concealed of course). In a perfect world, there should be no problem, but the opposite is becoming more and more apparent...

Also, "Morally Right" does not mean "Legal In Some Instances." If it illegal, you will pay the consequences. Fate has a way of working against you when you try to bend the rules.
In my opinion, you have a job that calls for protection.
I would just be very discreet with your carry method.
Utah is pretty lax about this whole thing anyway. Carrying in a prohibited area without malicious intent is a misdemenor, which means you may not even lose your permit if you get busted.

Well, y'see, that's the problem. I'm 19... meaning, no permit. So yeah, it'd be illegal if it were loaded (meaning a mag in the gun), but as far as I know, legal if unloaded... but what good is an unloaded gun?

I suppose I should've put that little detail in the first post, huh? :rolleyes:

toll booths in utah?

funny i don't remember those there, but then its been almost 10 years since i was there.

i know how you feel believe i work at a facility that i cannot even bring one to work to even lock up in the car. i really don't work in an area where i need one and if i do they will provide the appropriate weapon. but i drive 36 miles to work and i see some wild things sometimes. thats why i want to carry.
my advice is don't do it, sad that the boss's on't allow you to. especially seeing as how around here armed security guards are running around everywhere.
something to think about. find other toll workers that feel like yourself and get together on the issue. maybe you can either convince the boss's together or go to the state legislature to enact a law allowing you to carry. two groups of government employees here have done so successfully.
I feel your pain, then. I'm also 19, and can't carry. :fire: :banghead: Don't carry an unloaded gun, as I'm sure that too will be used against you in court. Also, even if we could carry, I see it as being more than just a judicial problem. If a weirdo pulls up in a car, pulls a gun, and you shoot him first--that will block traffic, etc. Complications like that are what I'm forseeing. You might try body armor, but... it can only help so much. :(

Being 19 and younger sucks for those of us that are (as far as self-defense goes).
...and you shoot him first--that will block traffic...
Okay, you just made coffee shoot out my nose...

But I must agree, shooting him will most likely block traffic. :what:

Not messin' with you, but that line definitely struck the ol' funny bone! :D
We have toll booths in Utah?

Don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to advocate that you break the law, but you do what you have got to do.
Its a no brainer! When you took the job you agreed to abide by the rules. If the situation has changed but the rules have not.....quit the job before you are fired (and charges filed?). Teachers can make the same complaint , I (work corrections) can make the same complaint but the rules haven't changed. We are either cut-out for this kind of work or we aren't, case closed. Good luck.
We have toll booths in Utah?

:D I work in the toll booth at the Deseret Peak Recreation Complex. It's not for a highway or anything... I just charge people who come to ride motorcross, or shoot archery, etc.

I know I agreed to take the job. I'm not sure what the company policy is, and I haven't asked my boss about it. I just have a gut feeling about it sometimes, and I usually really regret going against my gut.

And if my parents ever found out... :uhoh:

Wes :barf:
If I'm not mistaken, this thread can be used as evidence against you.

If it's against company policy, that's one thing, but it could get you fired. Since every job you will apply for in the future will likely ask for a reference, even if carrying at work weren't against policy for your next job, what if they called your current supervisor for the reason why you were fired--because you carried a gun to work?

If it is illegal for you, for whatever reason, are you willing to have that follow you around for the rest of your life? Random guys on the Internet can egg you on all day long to not compromise your rights, but it's your butt, not ours, that's going to pay the price if you get caught.
I agree with Skunkabilly - if caught its gonna follow you around for a while. Most companies would look down upon someone fired for carrying a gun at work - for insurance if not political reasons.

But then again, its your call.

Also, is the firearm legal? I know in some states, even if its 21 to purchase you may be given a gift by a direct relative. But you did say that you didn't want your folks to find out.

IF the gun isn't legal (for all I know 18 might be the handgun purchase age in Utah, with 21 the CCW age), even in a gun friendly state illegal handgun + illegal carry might cause a lot of trouble...

I'm going to advise you not to carry. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm advising you to stay at that job. You can, of course, move on to something that doesn't make you feel threatened by the people you meet. But as it is, you're working there of your own free will, and you're going to have to abide by the rules and laws of the place that you choose to be at. Do I agree with the rule? Of course not. Not in the least. But we make Faustian deals in our lives, and must abide by them at times to see that we don't muddle up our lives in the future. The chance of your getting "made" while carrying (in a manner that could be helpful to you in an emergency) are higher than the chance of you getting shot at in your (armored, right?) toll booth.

Me? I'd probably move on from the toll booth gig, but I don't know what your circumstances are.

In the mean time, just have a contengency plan of what you'll actually do if the balloon goes up. If someone points a gun at you, see that the window's closed, drop, and get out of the line of fire. Even if they could stand up and shoot down, that's a much higher angle shot, which makes in much less likely to penetrate and hit you. Also, that would necessitate their exiting their vehicle, which puts them more at risk. How good's the lock on the door? Could a supplemental dead bolt or throw bolt be in order? Do you keep a phone where it can be reached from the floor? (Not just cell phone-- you want to be able to dial 911 and get a response to your location.) Is the area below the counter hardened? Could you keep some armor there? Do you have a panic button that can be reached from under the counter?

Considering these questions and producing solid answers may well serve you better than having a little gun stashed away in deep concealment.
Yup, hard situation. How dangerous do you really consider your job to be? What are the stats on it, how many toll booth workers get killed on the job?

You are 19 and in a CCW state. You are two years away from being able to legally carry. However, you are in a potentially dangerous job now.

I live in MD where carry for almost everyone is illegal. I don't feel good about it but I don't (usually) carry. I get by with a knife and pepper spray. A year ago I spent a few months working two jobs, one was pizza delivery. I really didn't feel good about not carrying. However, carrying regularly where illegal is a bad idea so I ended up quitting the job. I do carry on very rare occasions when it seems a better idea to risk arrest than risk being caught out without a gun (when I have no other choice and I'm going to be in a bad area at night or when carrying a lot of cash). Still, in the past 2-3 years I can count the number of times that I carried in public on one hand (and in another 2-3 years I will probably still be able to count them on one hand).

In your case, is leaving your job an option? If not, I would echo the suggestion to get a ballistic vest and you might want to consider the strongest pepper spray you can find and a good blade. Making it a regular policy to carry where/when illegal is simply a good way to get yourself in a lot of trouble (which may keep you from ever being able to legally carry).
Would someone be able to spot a P-3AT, P-32 or similiar sized auto in a pocket holster in your situation?

They might not have the power or accuracy of a custom 1911, but they'll get the job done at the distance you're concerned with.

Criminy! Put a gun in your pocket and don't worry about it. If you get caught it'll probably be because you had to draw it - if you have to draw a gun, you'd better have one to draw!

If I understand you correctly it is legal for you to carry unloaded ? Define unloaded. In some states that means nothing in chamber, some say gun and mag seperate,some say unloaded mag.

If it's legal put unloaded gun in preferred location on your body, mag in left front pocket. That way it's fairly easy to access. If possible have the slide locked back. Not the fastest presentation but with practice you can get pretty fast at it.

Your unloaded pistol on you is a 100 times better than your loaded gun at home.
old enough to vote....
old enough to lay your life down for your country...
old enough to buy cigarettes...

remind yourself of what the penalties are for having a concealed weapon on your person without the states "approval". then consider what the future consequences would be. could you pass the NICS check if you are charged with the crime of unlicensed concealed carry?
obviously your life is worth more than that job. but also remember, that you SIGNED AN APPLICATION for that job. whether or not you knew the risks the job entailed, you still remain employed in a line of work that you dont feel safe at.
jobs are replaceable. lives are not.
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