Help Me Pick a .22LR

[GunGoBoom]

Nemat, if you want a semi .22, then you cannot beat the Marlins. Better and cheaper than the 10/22, and no need for an aftermarket barrel. Far far FAR better, and cheaper than the Rem 597.

Model 60 if'n you want a tube mag:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/selfLoading22wTubularMag/index.htm

Model 7000/795/70 if you want a clip mag in essentially the same gun:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/selfLoading22wClipMag/index.htm

You are definitely on the right track getting a .22 over a .30 cal rifle for a survival scenario. .22lr and 12 ga is all you'd need if you're not battling hoards of humanoid invaders, and even then it's still probably all you'd need. By most all accounts, the Marlins are more accurate than the 10/22 out of the box (mine is superbly accurate), equally reliable, and for $110 brand new for a wood/blue model 60, that's serious value. By most accounts, 597 are more often junk than not. Some people's work, but more people's don't run reliably without tweaking the mags. The model 70PSS Marlin is a take-down model, if that interests you.

 

[Tropical Z]

Thats if you like the Marlin .22lr's.I don't and neither do my friends who shoot.The accuracy and reliability of my 597 is exceptional with Remington's golden bullets in the bulk pack.It hates the Federal bulk pack's.People are so hung up on the 10/22's which I can't stand.All you hear about is how superior they are after you buy one and spend twice as much again replacing parts. A .22lr should be inexpensive,accurate and functional from the start without extensive modifications.My 597 and Savage 64 fit that description to a tee.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/rimfire/597.htm

 

[Tropical Z]

Here's what Remington says about the 597 and I believe it as I've seen it.

"Whether you use it for hunting, serious target shooting or an afternoon of plinking, one thing is certain: This is no ordinary rimfire rifle. Far from it. In fact, the Model 597™ is easily the most advanced autoloading rimfire rifle ever built. And the first breakthrough in autoloading rimfire rifle technology in 35 years. The difference starts with our proprietary bolt-guidance system. It features a unique set of twin tool-steel guide rails (other brands feature only grooved aluminum slots). Because steel is stronger and far more resistant to wear, the result is not only better stability, feeding reliability and accuracy right out of the box, but significantly superior performance through time.

Of course, we didn’t stop there. The bolt, hammer and sear of the Model 597 all feature an exclusive Teflon®/nickel plating for absolutely smooth, dependable operation and an ultra-crisp trigger pull (that stays that way). To assure reliable, long-life accuracy, we’ve also incorporated a unique positive-locking, permanently rigid barrel attachment clamp. Receivers are grooved for standard rimfire mounts and tapped/drilled for Weaver-style bases. Completing the breakthrough design are an innovative last-shot “hold open” magazine feature and our patented, easy-to-use staggered-stack magazine."

 

[belton-deer-hunter]

gungoboom

i have to agree i ahve a glenfield model 60 and haad a marlin model 60w both are great guns can shoot them 3 mabee four hunderd tiems befroe they dry and need lubing but great guns accrate all the way out till the bullet drops great guns at a great price

 

[GunGoBoom]

Thats if you like the Marlin .22lr's.I don't and neither do my friends who shoot.

Any REASON?

The accuracy and reliability of my 597 is exceptional with Remington's golden bullets in the bulk pack.It hates the Federal bulk pack's

.

Ha, so it's a jammomatic with certain ammo types. I got news for you - the Marlins will shoot (very accurately) anything you put in them.

People are so hung up on the 10/22's which I can't stand.All you hear about is how superior they are after you buy one and spend twice as much again replacing parts.

Agreed. The Marlins are NOT in the category of needing extra parts.

A .22lr should be inexpensive,accurate and functional from the start without extensive modifications.

Agreeed.

My 597 and Savage 64 fit that description to a tee.

Your 597 maybe. But not many, many other people's. Savage 64 I believe - I'd put it in the same category as the Marlins - works as needed out of the box, for less money than Ruger or Remington. For a turnbolt under $300, I'd get a CZ, Marlin, or Savage in that order. For a cheap semi, I'd get a Marlin, Savage, or Ruger in that order. Some people's Rem 597s work great - but there are nearly endless horror stories of jammomatics out there if you read up / search around.

 

[rammie]

rammie

I own a 597 and purchased only after scouting all the semi-auto .22lr in my price range (under $200). Reasons I chose this gun were that it was lighter and less expensive than the 10/22, came scope-ready with built in rails, decent looks/finish, and personal preference for how it felt.
Many .22 in the lower priced range feel cheap to hold, have awkaward actions, bad ergonomics, etc. I found the Rem 597 to be the best value for ME (everyone has their own opinion).
As far as reliability, mine has held up very well. I keep it clean and it has been very smooth. I am still using the original plastic magazines with no problems. Will knock off 10 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger and keep a nice group. Good accuracy and trigger pull for my needs (mostly plinking). And being lightweight you can shoulder it all day.

There are a lot of negative posts about this rifle, not sure why. I shoot the cheapest box ammo (500-550 rounds each, including the Federal brand by the way) from Wal-Mart with only a rare jam, can often go through several boxes w/o a hitch. And at that rate the ammo could be just as likely the blame (since the jams are usually from a stuck casing) Shouldn't always fault the gun first. For the price it is hard to knock this gun, except that I was recommended to not shoot "hot"/hyper-velocity rounds with it. But not a big deal for me.

Note: Possible that the horror stories are bandwagon/group mentality. More people are likely to badmouth than praise, look at just about any consumer good, its the same way. Easy to say a 10/22 is so great, everyone else does. Plus everyone has one or has shot one. Is that true with the 597? Start a thread in favor of 597 and keep the "haters" out and see what you hear.

 

[GunGoBoom]

Yes, but:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=155523&page=4&highlight=597+jam* (page 4, first hand info)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=159383&highlight=597+jam* (TWO first hand negatives about 597 on page 1, TWO MORE first hand negatives about it on page 2, that's FOUR 1st hand accounts in a thread of "most regrettable firearm purchases" on ONE little gun board)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=95166&highlight=597+jam* (both good and bad here, but enough bad to make you think twice)

I dunno, now I'm starting to change my opinion in favor of the 597, because those who have the updated metal magazine and updated ejector do not seem to have any problems.

So I've changed my tune, as of now. I'd say a *new* 597 would seem to be a good deal, based on what I read in my attempt to trash it.

 

[AStone]

The controversy continues...

I dunno, now I'm starting to change my opinion in favor of the 597, because those who have the updated metal magazine and updated ejector do not seem to have any problems.

So I've changed my tune, as of now. I'd say a *new* 597 would seem to be a good deal, based on what I read in my attempt to trash it.

GGBoom, TropZ, Belton & Rammie, thanks very much for your input. All appreciated. (And Rammie, welcome to THR; I see you're fairly new. Great bunch of folks around here, even if we don't always agree on which are the best guns. )

Well, GGBoom, I had almost decided that the Marlin 795SS was the gun for me and that the Rem was not, mostly for the same reason you stated: I found soooo many neg reviews on the latter last night with the acronym POS attached. It wasn't that people were just mildly unhappy, they were very unhappy with it. (I.e, ).

I began to conclude that the 597 was just a lemon by an otherwise reputable maker,and that maybe I'd be better off with a Marlin. I like their stainless models, and want a synthetic stock anyway. (Note my location; very wet here, and projections are for increasing precipitation up here with climate change.)

But now, dang it, you've got me backing off that position a bit. If you were so against it, then are willing to reconsider, then I'm going to as well. Perhaps you're right: maybe it IS the magazine, and by using the metal ones (which I would anyway), the issue is resolved. Maybe we can press that point in this and other threads to see if the evidence bears it up. (Being a science type, I like a good testable hypothesis and trying to draw conclusions based on good data.)

I know Savages get good reviews, but I've never owned a Savage before, whereas I have owned a Marlin (336; loved it; was utterly stupid to ever sell it :banghead: ). There's something to be said for familiarity, so I'm leaning towards the Marlin.

Admittedly, I've not handled any of them yet. I try to do a lot of research up front before ever going to the store, then after handling them, come back to do more research. Plus, as I've explained in the .30 cal thread, my $ for purchase is still a few weeks away, so I'm ahead of the game.

In the mean time, I'm going to keep reading on THR (mainly) and elsewhere, and keep thinking. Hopefully others will drop into this thread and add their 2c (even though there are several other nearly current threads involving the 597 controversy right now.

I'll probably head over to the gun store on Wedesday to take a look see, and maybe drop by Costco just up the street. They should probably sell some of these.

One last point, GGBoom: would you (or others) care to share any thoughts on the pros/cons of the Marlin 60 tube feed v. the 795 magazine? Obviously the former holds more rnds (14) than the latter (10), but I can see an advantage of the magazine for way faster reloading.

Thanks again, guys.

Nem

 

[GunGoBoom]

Yap, sorry, that makes it a tougher decision. But as I say, there seems to be many positive reviews of the 597 for those with NEWER models, with the metal mags - it seems almost universally bad for the old, and almost universally good for the new. So if the bug is worked out, it's worked out. So I'd look at their prices and how they feel in your hands and how they point for you. I'd still look at Marlin because of the value, but not rule out the 597 by any stretch, if you're buying new.

I would also read up on the respective firearm manuf. forums at www.rimfirecentral.com before deciding.

As for 795 vs. 60, that's a tough call. Yes, you CAN reload much faster with the 795 than the 60, IF you have extra mags and IF you are willing to actually load & carry extra mags. You get 5 + 5 +5 + ...with box ('clip-') type mag, but you get 14+1 with tube mag. Some people say that with the tube mag, there's no mags to lose, but this is misleading because you can also lose the 'ramrod' device from the tube mag during reloading, so that's about a wash, though little 'clip' mags MAY be harder to find if dropped in grass/leaves than a tube mag plunger/ramrod. So get whatever suits your fancy.

 

[AStone]

Yap, sorry, that makes it a tougher decision. ... I'd still look at Marlin because of the value, but not rule out the 597 by any stretch, if you're buying new.

Hey, Boom, I was kidding about the complexity due to the new info, of course. I'd much rather have choices than not.

Thanks for advice. I totally agree.

Nem

 

[GunGoBoom]

Hey look at this treasure trove of info:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68079

 

[AStone]

Bingo. Nice score.

The images on this page say a lot to me:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=618183#post618183

(One has to keep track of new/old - left/right, which are switched in the two images.)

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Such shooting requires the very low velocity target ammo, which has serious problems with drop and drift beyond 50 yds.

"Low velocity" (actually standard velocity) target ammunition has less drift than high velocity -- which is why target shooters use it.

 

[Tropical Z]

1.My 597's plastic mags (2) work fine and I still use them.Remington,however did replace their manufacture with magnesium ones so I assume they know there was a problem somewhere.
2.I should have clarified that ALL of my .22lr's (rifle or handgun) shoot poorly with bulk Federal.Who knows,maybe the boxes I got were just a lousy bunch.The golden bullets have always worked well.
3.The only good thing I see in the Marlin tube guns is their capacity.I don't like how they shoulder (which is very important) and I just don't see any good reason to get one.

 

[AStone]

TZ, thanks for clarifying that.

One question:

3.The only good thing I see in the Marlin tube guns is their capacity.I don't like how they shoulder (which is very important) and I just don't see any good reason to get one.

You specifically mention the 'Marlin tube guns' there (Model 60). Does that shouldering issue apply to the Marlin magazine guns (Model 795) for you as well, or is their design somehow different that improves shouldering? Looking at photos online, I can't see a difference, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Thanks,

Nem

 

[AStone]

bolt action 'more accurate'?

A little while ago, I made some calls around town looking for semi-auto's: Marlin 795, Rem 597, Ruger 10/22.

Bimart has all but the Marlin (they do have a 60).

My local gun store has none of them, suprisingly.

When I called there, the salesperson, with whom I interact regularly, asked, "Why semi-auto?"

I didn't have a really good answer, I confess. Said something about rapid second shots and a fondness for .22 semi's, having grown up with a Remington Nylon 66.

He asked then, "What are you going to do with it mainly?".

"Small game, mostly," I replied.

"Ah, then you may want to consider a CZ bolt gun," says he.

When asked why, he responded, "Bolt actions are more accurate than a semi-auto."

True, false, or somewhere in between?

Nem

 

[AStone]

This just in...

To further complicate things, I just learned that CZ does produce a semi-auto: the CZ 511. Apparently back by popular demand.

Oh, the choices ...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

He asked then, "What are you going to do with it mainly?".

"Small game, mostly," I replied.

"Ah, then you may want to consider a CZ bolt gun," says he.

When asked why, he responded, "Bolt actions are more accurate than a semi-auto."

True, false, or somewhere in between?

Absolutely true -- unless you want to shell out big bucks. The CZ is about as accurate out of the box as anything you can get. He gave you good advice.

 

[Michael Courtney]

I've got an Izhmash Biathalon that routinely turns in scores in the 195-199/200 range on the NRA smallbore rifle target at 50 yards. I forget the exact cost, but it was under $300. It is a great joy to see al those tiny groups. I also routinely shoot racoons, groundhogs, and squirrels with the gun.

I've also got a TC Contender Carbine in 22LR which shoots nearly as well as the Izhmash and has the advantge of being much smaller and lighter. It is the only 22LR other than a bolt action that I would recommend.



Michael Courtney

 

[Tropical Z]

CDNN has the CZ99 in .22lr for $149.99 including scope and the EAA biathalon in .22mag for $269.99
www.cdnninvestments.com

 

[GunGoBoom]

OK, Trop Z, ya sorry I kinda jumped on ya - and yes, how it shoulders (& LOP) is VERY important, so that's certainly a valid reason not to like Marlins. Also, as clarified above, I was overzealous in my attempt to denigrate 597s from hearsay - it would have been a legitimate exercise had there not also been a lot of contrary (good) which I found along with the bad, upon a closer look, as I said.

Nemat, I was at first very interested in the CZ semi-auto. But I read SOMEWHERE that it can have feeding problems (perhaps at www.rimfirecentral.com I think). Also had heard both good and some bad (feeding problems) with the Thompson/Center .22 rifles, so perhaps investigate those before buying. For that matter, I've even ready a few bad things about Marlin 60 (feed problems), but mine has works perfectly with long rifle cartridges (not shorts or super colibris however, of course). In theory, the Rem Speedmaster 572 (the OTHER Remington semi-auto .22) works well with shorts and longs, if that's your goal. But then again I've read bad about the 572 (or is it the 552? one is the pump, one is the semi).

And yes, the classic browning is nice, but a tad pricey:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=005B&cat_id=021&type_id=001
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=005B&cat_id=021&type_id=002

Also, if you want to go SUPER-economy, and run with an 'un-proven' product, grab a Mossberg "702 Plinkster" .22 for like $88 brand new at Walmart! They're made in S. America. The stock and sights are plastic however, like cheapie muzzleloaders & airguns.

http://www.mossbergintl.com/pages/702plinkster.htm

The sights are *fully*-adjustable at least, however. The receiver looks like it might be a copy of the Ruger 10/22 doesn't it? In fact, if not for the "schabel"-tweaked forearm, it would look just like a 10/22. The price sure is right, if it can hold any decent group at all.

So bottom line, if you have a little more budget than 'economy' level ($300 ish), want super accuracy, and don't need a semi-auto, I'd agree CZ 452 or Izhmash Biathlon Basic. For a semi, depends highly on budget. Marlin at the bottom up to Kimber/Cooper/Anschutz/Feinwerkbau/Perini/Walther at the top.

Nemat, check out these threads if you haven't already, esp. the first one:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=155804&highlight=.22*+22*
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=152307&highlight=.22*+22*
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=152772&highlight=.22*+22*
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148575&highlight=.22*+22*
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144126&highlight=.22*+22*
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139168&highlight=.22*+22*

Also, you might even consider the Tula Toz 78 - looks like a nice rifle on the cheap:

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63032&highlight=toz78

 

[AStone]

Guys, thanks for continued discussion and advice. Very helpful.

Today I shouldered my first Marlin; a 60. Didn't like it at all. Ruled out.

Unfortunately didn't get to try a Rem 597 or Marlin 795, but if the later is anything like a 60, it too is ruled out. (Marlin makes great guns; 336 in the .30's is an example; but maybe not the .22.)

But I did get to try out the Ruger 10/22. Nice enough. All the arguments about 'the gun', lots of ways to mod it after purchase, yada.

And, I got to try a Rem 597 in a .17. Nice enough. Could live with it, for sure.

But, the find of the day, the find for me resulting from reading this thread, was the CZ 452 American.

When I revived this thread a few days ago, I was thinking semi-auto. Now, I'm thinking bolt.

The 452 felt good. Solid. Shoulders well. Like Vern says, more accurate than a semi. Reasonable price.

I'll sit on it for another week or two (once the expected $ get here, the 870 get's ordered first). But right now, I'm thinking CZ 452 with a Swift 3-9X scope.

That should net some small game for the SHTF camp pot.

I'll keep you posted.

Nem

 

[The Jackal]

I love my 10/22! I know lots of folks have put major money in after market parts, I have not. I have added less than $100 in parts and it is awsome. I just went shooting this weekend and was hitting shotgun shells at 75yds + with no problems.

 

[AStone]

I love my 10/22!... I just went shooting this weekend and was hitting shotgun shells at 75yds + with no problems.

Well, that's impressive.

Shotgun shells at 75 yds is impressive. Of course, I'm open to the possibility that this could be a fishing tale (the one that got away was 772 lbs), but if true, then it is impressive.

If one can hit a shotgun shell at 75 yds, then one should be able to remove a squirrel's brains at 50, and have delicious stew for dinner.

I'm still leaning towards a CZ 452. (Which I've found is available in a synthetic stock) similar to the .30-06 of my dreams, a Rem 700 XCR.

I'm curious. How many rnds were required to hit the first shotgun shell at 75 yds?

Was that phenomenon repeatable?

Was the deed accomplished 'free-standing', or using a rest?

Nem

 

[Litefoot]

OK, well I'll rejoin this thread after being one of the last to post in the earlier days of the thread. After all this discussion, my initial thoughts are that we ARE talking about a .22 rifle, NOT a car or a house. This is not a huge investment. Just buy the one you're leaning toward and if you don't like it, they're easy to sell. Or pass it on to someone else. Then try another one. You'd spend no more on most of these rifles than you might on a weekend getaway trip.