Help me pick a new pistol

[metalman8600]

I currently have a XDM 9mm used for concealed carry. My friends have 1911s. And something about a heavier all metal gun just feels a lot better than any polymer pistol I have held. I know there are people who will say "But the polymer is lighter, better for carrying." True, but I am not one to complain about weight. Something about metal just feels a lot better. I also want it to be 9mm (I'm not one of those "if it isn't 338 Lapua Magnum, it will just piss him off")

Anyway, I am in the market for a new (at least new to me) pistol. I am also not one to complain about a higher price if it is worth it, because I plan to keep it for a very very long time (maybe even pass it on to future kids?) I am also placing function above historical type significance. The main choices I have been dealing around in my head are:

Browning High Power
CZ-75 SAO or a regular one converted to SAO
Beretta 92FS
Sig 226
9mm 1911

A gun show is this weekend so I'll probably narrow down that list after handling a few of them. Any reason why people who own double action pistols such as the Sig and Beretta tell people to only carry it with the hammer down? I carry a XDM and the only thing stopping it from firing is the internal safety and my finger. If those double action pistols have drop safeties and such, why not carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 (or striker fired pistol)? It seems like you are more likely to miss your target and have a bullet go where you do not intend with a 14 lb trigger pull than a 4 lbs one. I carry the XDM everyday and my friend carries the 1911 everyday and we both have no anxious feelings about being cocked and ready to go with the only thing separating a normal day and a piece of high speed lead is a 3 lb trigger pull.
I see that Sig make a p226 SAO, but it's like an unreasonable $1800... I am staying below $900

 

[Shadow 7D]

You forgot S&W's, there are alot of police trade in, often for about 400, all metal, lots of additions.

 

[Avenger29]

I went down this route last year.

Went through a BHP phase, then a CZ 75 phase. Still wasn't satisfied. Almost brought a 9mm 1911 and was investigating Sigs and Berettas.

The CZ 75 does have a great feature- you can go C&L with the standard DA/SA, so no need to hunt down or convert to SAO. I really like this configuration...it's not quite as great of a trigger pull as a finely tuned SAO, but it is still pretty darn good for what you get, plus it's versatile.

Is this going to be a range gun only? Then the 9mm 1911 is good. Considering CCWing or using it for defense? Pick one of the other four. I highly recommend the Hi Power. It's a very cool gun. Very fun to shoot. Feels very light in the hand yet shoots very nicely.

I finally realized that I needed to find something that was a tad lighter yet still had light enough recoil to satisfy me. I found it in the form of the S&W M&P 9mm- very low felt recoil, light weight, and durable and reliable, plus commonly available accessories and holsters.

Any reason why people who own double action pistols such as the Sig and Beretta tell people to only carry it with the hammer down?

Yes, because a DA/SA pistol often doesn't have a manual safety to go "cocked and locked" with that light trigger pull. At least with an XD you still have the grip safety and with a Glock or similar you have a firing pin block and all that jazz that deactivates with an actual trigger pull and doesn't fully cock the striker till then.

 

[PAPACHUCK]

Sig P229

 

[uspJ]

out of what you listed i would go with either the hi-power or the 226. the hi-power is very thin has a good capacity and is very accurate. the 226 is larger but has a larger capacity, is also very accurate and has one of the best da trigger pulls i've ever used.

 

[RatDrall]

Buy the CZ75B. It feels like a hi power, but my experience is that the '75 is more reliable out of the box.

 

[Mike J]

The XD pistols have a grip safety & a trigger safety. Glock style pistols have the trigger safety to prevent anything other than a straight pull from pulling the trigger. Carrying a DA/SA pistol cocked would be very dangerous in my opinion. It would be like carrying a revolver cocked. It does take more time in training to learn the 2 different pulls but the system works well. If you do choose a DA/SA learning the 2 pulls is just part of the territory.
I would comment on your list but I have no experience with any of those guns. The part about carrying a DA/SA cocked just concerned me.

 

[Quack]

i say 1911, but that's my preference.

 

[easyg]

I currently have a XDM 9mm used for concealed carry. My friends have 1911s. And something about a heavier all metal gun just feels a lot better than any polymer pistol I have held.

Maybe you're thinking is being affected by a little peer pressure?

Anyway, I am in the market for a new (at least new to me) pistol. I am also not one to complain about a higher price if it is worth it, because I plan to keep it for a very very long time (maybe even pass it on to future kids?) I am also placing function above historical type significance. The main choices I have been dealing around in my head are:

Browning High Power
CZ-75 SAO or a regular one converted to SAO
Beretta 92FS
Sig 226
9mm 1911

Since function trumps historical significance, I think the Beretta and the Sig are your better choices here.
But both are rather large pistols for concealed carry.

Any reason why people who own double action pistols such as the Sig and Beretta tell people to only carry it with the hammer down?

Some folks just feel more comfortable with a 1st shot heavy DA trigger on a pistol that has no manual safety, or a deactivated manual safety.

I carry a XDM and the only thing stopping it from firing is the internal safety and my finger.

Actually the XDM has the trigger safety (like Glock) and a grip safety as well (like a 1911).

If those double action pistols have drop safeties and such, why not carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 (or striker fired pistol)? It seems like you are more likely to miss your target and have a bullet go where you do not intend with a 14 lb trigger pull than a 4 lbs one.

I like a light trigger pull myself, but if the bullet didn't go where you intended it to go, it sure as heck wasn't due to the trigger-pull weight.

I carry the XDM everyday and my friend carries the 1911 everyday and we both have no anxious feelings about being cocked and ready to go with the only thing separating a normal day and a piece of high speed lead is a 3 lb trigger pull.

Again, the XDM has a trigger safety and a grip safety (2 passive safeties to overcome before firing).
And the 1911 has a manual safety and a grip safety too (1 manual safety and 1 passive safety to overcome before firing).

A cocked Sig 226 would have no safety, passive or manual, to overcome before firing.

 

[metalman8600]

The XD pistols have a grip safety & a trigger safety. Glock style pistols have the trigger safety to prevent anything other than a straight pull from pulling the trigger.

So what your saying is that a $900 Sig will discharge with something other than a trigger pull? Like a drop? Doesn't seem like a $900 gun to me if it doesn't even have a basic firing pin block.

And if you say not to carry cocked because of the way you can pull the pistol out of the holster... well you can have the same exact accident with a Glock or XD. Pulling the trigger is pulling the trigger, trigger bar or no trigger bar, the gun will fire.


A cocked Sig 226 in my mind is no more safe than a Glock. All it takes is a trigger pull for both to fire. I expect a $900 gun to have a firing pin block to prevent discharges when dropped, something that even $300 guns have. No passive safety in the world will save you from an unwanted discharge if you still pull the trigger... kind of like any other DA/SA that is cocked. Having a trigger bar on the trigger is like having a steering wheel on your steering wheel, "The steering wheel safety works like this: In order to turn the car, you must first turn the steering wheel that is welded on top of the steering wheel." Think how stupid it would be if car manufactures put a Glock/XD like trigger bar thing on a gas pedal. People will be like "we'll doesnt the pedal have to be pressed in the first place, in order to accelerate the car? Your saying I have to push the pedal in order to accelerate... like a normal pedal?"
So I don't call a Glock/XD trigger bar a safety. It does nothing a regular trigger can't do (most do it too).

Maybe you're thinking is being affected by a little peer pressure?

I shoot their guns much better.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I shoot their guns much better.

This is strictly my opinion, but go with the BHP or 1911 if you are keeping your XD.

I've shot mostly 1911's or revolvers for most of my life. I pick up a friend's XD and shot it for the first time after he declared “the sights were off.” Much to my surprise, I shot a really tight group at 15 and 10 yards. The ergonomics are similar enough that practicing on either of those will benefit you when you fire the others IMO.

Now when I picked up a Glock…that took much effort on my part to adapt my grip to the Glock. No big deal, you’ll never hear me complain about needing to take extra plinking trips.

 

[metalman8600]

I too shoot a tight group with the XDM at close range, but to the lower left (its the trigger). But I can shoot bulls eye at 50ft with my friends 1911. Recoil is the same too, something that is all metal and has a lower bore axis will surly help with double tapping.

And honestly, I've had a couple dreams where I actually had to use a pistol... and it was like a 35 lb trigger, scary.

 

[Fastcast]

Hell, those are all fantastic pistols, not to mention classy as well!.....You simply can't go wrong with that lineup.....Pick the one that trips your trigger the most. No pun intended.

 

[angel1216]

I currently have a XDM 9mm used for concealed carry.

base on your current ccw and list of potential new gun, i guess you are not looking for compact/subcompact easier to conceal guns! i was going to throw the XDM 3.8 in the mix!

 

[basicblur]

And if you say not to carry cocked because of the way you can pull the pistol out of the holster... well you can have the same exact accident with a Glock or XD.

I think the bigger problem with Glocks is discharges when re-holstering, which you will not have if you use proper re-holstering technique (last picture) with the XD and others with a grip safety.

 

[easyg]

So what your saying is that a $900 Sig will discharge with something other than a trigger pull? Like a drop? Doesn't seem like a $900 gun to me if it doesn't even have a basic firing pin block.
And if you say not to carry cocked because of the way you can pull the pistol out of the holster... well you can have the same exact accident with a Glock or XD. Pulling the trigger is pulling the trigger, trigger bar or no trigger bar, the gun will fire.

No, I'm not talking about it firing simply when dropped.
I'm talking about the possibility of something finding its way inside the trigger-guard and hitting the trigger (like a holster strap or a shirt-tail, for example).
What really separates the XD and the 1911 from the Sig and the Glock, from a safety perspective, is the addition of the grip safety.
For an XD or a 1911 to fire, not only would something have to hit the trigger but something else would also have to deactivate the grip safety at the same instant.

A cocked Sig 226 in my mind is no more safe than a Glock. All it takes is a trigger pull for both to fire.

Exactly right.
Both are equally safe or unsafe, whichever way you see it.

No passive safety in the world will save you from an unwanted discharge if you still pull the trigger...

Not true.
Take a loaded and cocked 1911 or XD, grip it by the barrel and not the handle, then pull the trigger.
Nothing will happen.
This is because those weapons both have a grip safety.

Now take a loaded and cocked Sig or Glock, grip it by the barrel and not the handle, then pull the trigger.
It will fire.

So I don't call a Glock/XD trigger bar a safety. It does nothing a regular trigger can't do (most do it too).

You are not alone in thinking that the Glock style "trigger safety" is equivalent to no safety at all.
Lot's of folks feel that Glocks are unsafe because they have no active safety and they have a rather light trigger pull.
Some equate them to carrying a cocked 1911 that has both no manual safety and no grip safety.
And I've never met anyone who is in favor of carrying a cocked 1911 with the grip safety taped down and deactivated and the manual safety off.

I carry a Glock just about every day.
But I'm well aware that Glocks tend to be less forgiving of human error than most other pistols.

 

[Platypus357]

Have you considered a Sig p229? It might work better for concealed carry if that is your goal. If not, the p226 is an amazing weapon.

I've never fired one (unfortunately), but I hear a Sig p228 is one of the best 9mm out there, better than the p229 i 9mm for various reasons. Again, I can't confirm this, just second hand knowledge.

Top Gun has some new Sig p228R's.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-p228r-9mm-nitron-siglite-night-sights-da-sa-m11.html

 

[basicblur]

You are not alone in thinking that the Glock style "trigger safety" is equivalent to no safety at all.

Yeah, I get tired of folks referring to the "Safe Action Trigger" as a safety. Can't lay my hands on the info at the moment, but apparently in an effort to stave off this misconception (by new shooters?), I read where Glock stated the "Safe Action Trigger" is NOT a safety.

Semantics maybe, but to me, a safety has to be something external the operator has to manipulate, whether it be active (thumb safety) or passive (grip safety).
I don't really count internal workings (which all should have?)-the internal stuff may be safety devices, but not what I'd call a "safety".

I've scratched my head from the first time I saw the Safe Action Trigger-while I understand the engineering behind it, I thought at the time if anything hits the trigger accidentally, there's a good chance it's going to hit the Safe Action Trigger also. Apparently, the "Glock Leg" phenomenon is proving that true (and not all those AD/NDs are folks pulling the trigger).

Not a Glock basher-just wish folks would go into a purchase with open eyes and know what they are buying.

 

[metalman8600]

Yeah, its like having a mini gas pedal on your car's gas pedal. I have not seen an internal Glock diagram, but I'm guessing it does the same thing that the regular trigger does on 99% of other pistols: moves a firing pin block.

I am leaning to a CZ-75b or a Hi Power. I would love a 9mm 1911, but it seems like they are all 9 round single stack and the only double stack ones are $2000 super high end.

 

[benderx4]

It's not on your list, but if you're looking at all metal 9mms, you owe it to yourself to check out a HK P7 or P7M8 before you make your decision. Even better, if you can find a friend with one that you can shoot at the range, you'll be hooked forever.

 

[SigP229R]

I have a 92F and a sig and you can't go wrong with either one of those. They are both good guns, I prefer the sig P229 for CC over the 92F but only because the sig is a little smaller.

 

[GoodKat]

The CZ with manual safety is superior to the hi power in almost every way. It is DA/SA, yet can be carried cocked and locked. It is inherently more accurate. It carries more rounds. It costs considerably less. It has a better trigger from what I have heard. It is used by more police and military organizations than any other handgun in existence.

Need I say more?

 

[GoodKat]

Forgot to mention, the CZ is available in a compact platform which will still accept full size mags, and even barrels and slides!

 

[metalman8600]

I will go see if I can rent a CZ75B at the range next time I go.

I think I will like it. Plus I like the nick name I gave it, "Slavic Steel".

 

[vaupet]

I would definitely go H&K P7, maybe P9

greetings

Peter