Help me pick a rifle stock

[InTheSwamp]

You're saying that the human brain is not smart enough to realize that their face is too close or too far from the scope? It's like saying the human brain is not smart enough to finish pulling the trigger when the scope picture is right.

The human brain is capable of that and a lot more, e.g., realizing which stock is better suited to accomplish the task with minimal effort. Or which trigger is lighter to pull, before pulling the trigger.

 

[sage5907]

The human brain is capable of that and a lot more, e.g., realizing which stock is better suited to accomplish the task with minimal effort. Or which trigger is lighter to pull, before pulling the trigger.

The human brain is your onboard computer that makes everything happen. If you pick the wrong stock for your rifle the human brain will help you use it anyway. Some people don't need as many crutches as others and I learned years ago that user friendly works best.

 

[InTheSwamp]

If you pick the wrong stock

I believe the previous poster was implying that there are wrong stocks - I see you agree with it. Proven to be wrong by a couple centuries of shooting.
It's not about getting used to it, but how quick, comfortably and effectively you get used to it.

 

[doubleh]

I would choose the one in the picture in the OP. Wood can and will warp with humidity but a wood stock can be made pretty waterproof with certain finishes. All I can say about beating a wooden stock up is that over a very long span of years I have never done it. If I were climbing tall and rocky terrain I might see the need for poly or fiberglass in case of a slip or fall but I am not.

 

[Varminterror]

It's not about getting used to it, but how quick, comfortably and effectively you get used to it.

It's also about how much stress can actually be placed on the shooting situation without causing failure for the training. As it is said, "in crisis, we do not rise to the occasion, we fall to our preparation." When stressors are added which break down the shooter's ability to meticulously prepare for each shot, then aids like properly fitted stocks including appropriate comb position to align the eye to the scope will prevent failures.

As a direct example, we often shoot Specialty Pistols with riflescopes which have no cheek support at all, and no reference for head alignment - with practice, and given support an time, making exceptionally precise shots is relatively easy. Add stressors of less support and pressured time, this becomes very difficult, and the gap between the Specialty Pistol and a stocked rifle widens substantially.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Richard's Microfit Stocks. Can't hurt to have a look.

 

[thump_rrr]

This is a useful point as well. I don't have a ton of experience with different stock shapes. My target rifle is adjustable, so it doesn't really count. Everything else I have except for the Boyd's thumbhole is a straight sporter style stock. I definitely prefer adding some type of cheek piece or pad to those to help with eye-scope alignment, even when using scopes with 40 or 44 mm objectives and low rings.

If you order directly from Boyd’s there are stocks that can be ordered with adjustable comb height and custom lengths of pull.
There are better options than Boyd’s.
varminterror has pointed some of these out.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I'm still deciding on a stock. I've read and re-read this thread a bunch of times, and I've done a fair bit of other research regarding stocks. I even went down the rabbit hole over at Rokslide and the reason behind that ugly Rokstock they and Unknown Munitions developed. (Apparently the ideal big game hunting rifle is a Tikka T3x in 223 shooting 77 grain TMKs, a SWFA fixed 6 scope, and a Rokstock---but I digress). But, I'm still confused about stock shape/design features and what they are intended to do. At least to the uninitiated, some information that's out there seems to be contradictory.

Forget for a minute the weight of the stock or the materials it's made out of. I want to focus on the shape and the why behind the shape. And I'm mostly interested in recoil mitigation and shooting from non-prone field positions. I will be using a scope with an objective not larger than 44mm.

@Varminterror recommended earlier a Manners EH1 or a similarly shaped McMillan stock. I read lots of folks recommend the Manners EH1 in particular, expecially folks shooting at longer distances. A cheaper but similar option might be Stocky's Carbon VG2, or B&C's long range hunter. Below is another picture of the Manners, which seems to be the cream of the crop for this type of stock:



So, this stock has a flat comb that's inline with or maybe a bit above the boreline (i.e., the comb is relatively high). Also, the butt pad comes all the way up to the comb (it doesn't "drop off" like a monte carlo design or the design below). It has a vertical grip. And the toe line (bottom) is not super-steep but it's not flat either. These stocks are often marketed as for "long range" hunting. That's not me, especially not with the rifle I'm currently working on. But . . . why is this a "long range" stock? Is there something about the desing of this stock that makes it hard to use for offhand or positional shooting (think sitting and shooting off a pack frame)? Life is full of tradeoffs. What is this stock design trading in order to gain it's "long range" moniker?

Compare and contrast with a stock with a raised comb but no cheek piece. An M40 style, or Grayboe's Terrain are examples of this style:



Here, the comb appears to be roughly the same height as the style above, but instead of the buttpad coming up to the comb it drops off and is lower. What does this do? I've read that it creates a fulcrum that increases muzzle rise and thus perceived recoil, but I've also read that this type of comb (or maybe a monte carlo cheek piece?) reduce felt recoil. Which is it? What is the tradeoff between having the butt pad come up to the comb vs. having a drop off from the raised comb down to the butt pad? When might a shooter want one style over the other? Is this style easier to shoot offhand for some reason?

Finally, we have what I consider to be a classic sporter stock. Seemingly everyone makes one. Here's the Grayboe Outlander as an example:



It's simple. It's classic. The comb may or may not be too low for comfortable use with a scope. When does one want a stock shaped like this versus one shaped like the Terrain or Manners? Is it going to handle recoil better or worse? Will it be quicker to shoot offhand? Or is this purely a looks and feel kinda thing?

In sum, I'm trying to identify the stock shape/design characteristics that make a stock good at mitigating recoil and being easy to shoot offhand and in non-prone field positions when using a magnified optic. Your continued input and experience are greatly apprecaited.

 

[troy fairweather]

Got to watch rokslide,

 

[Chuck R.]

Another I'd look at is the Manners EH3, it's not as "long range-ish" as the EH1, but it maintains a higher comb and still weighs in at around 26 ounces. I'm pretty pleased with the one I bought a couple years ago. I have zero issues with a VX6HD 3-18X50 mounted:

What Manners has to say:

This is more of a traditional mountain rifle stock like our MCS-SL. There are some main differences between the two. First, we added a little higher cheek for use with a larger objective scopes, it has a lengthened grip to give you more control and the feel of a full size stock and it is ambidextrous for you lefties.

Depending on the inlet, the standard weight with a ½” pad is 24 to 25 ounces. The forend is 1.5” wide at the tip and rounded on the bottom which is wide enough to accept up to a #4 barrel. The EH3 is designed for Rem 700 style actions.

 

[Varminterror]

But . . . why is this a "long range" stock?

The grip neck is a steeper angle and the belly of the buttstock is a flatter angle than would be used for a traditional Sporter stock. These attributes don’t preclude it from being fired from a pack frame, or used for offhand shooting, but they do add a little bulk in the tail that a more swept grip and buttstock design of a Sporter stock would not have.

Personally, I prefer the more natural wrist angle and more positive tension to the shoulder offered by vertical grip neck “long range” stocks and I don’t find the extra bulk to be bulky, so I prefer this design over swept sporters for all applications.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Another I'd look at is the Manners EH3, it's not as "long range-ish" as the EH1, but it maintains a higher comb and still weighs in at around 26 ounces. I'm pretty pleased with the one I bought a couple years ago. I have zero issues with a VX6HD 3-18X50 mounted:

What Manners has to say:

I do like that one. In shape, it seems as a bit of a hybrid between the second two I list. I’m still just trying to figure out the why behind the different shapes.

 

[Chuck R.]

I do like that one. In shape, it seems as a bit of a hybrid between the second two I list. I’m still just trying to figure out the why behind the different shapes.

Unfortunately, the only way to be sure is to try them.. Luckily for me, the Manners guys are a quick trip to KC.

A lot of it is personal preference and what your task/purpose for the rifle is. In your case a .35W isn't exactly a long range shooter, so if it was me I'd go for more of a sporter/mountain rifle style.

What guys will do is often buy a B&C or HS Precision, "something" that doesn't need bedding, play with it, then decide and order what you really want. A Manners is about an 8 month wait last time I checked. You can then get most of your money back by selling your "try" stock.

I'm pretty impressed with the Grayboe Phoenix I bought a couple months ago. Weighs about as much as a B&C/HS, way more adjustable, didn't need bedding and didn't break the bank.

Something like their Eagle or Eagle Pro would mimic a higher comb stock while also letting you play with length of pull. Right now for instance Bergara has Grayboe LA 700 "Terrain" stocks on sale for $250 with an M5 bottom metal inlet:

GRAYBOE TERRAIN STOCK LA M5 - BPI Outdoors, Inc

bpioutdoors.com

 

[Lennyjoe]

My tried and true Savage 110 30-06 stock is pretty beat up after years of hunting so I picked up a new left handed wood stock. When I put the new stock on my 15+ year old rifle with an uber accurate 165 gr load, it looks like a shotgun pattern. Guess I either need to send the rifle to a gunsmith with the new stock or refinish the original one.

 

[Okie_Poke]

The grip neck is a steeper angle and the belly of the buttstock is a flatter angle than would be used for a traditional Sporter stock. These attributes don’t preclude it from being fired from a pack frame, or used for offhand shooting, but they do add a little bulk in the tail that a more swept grip and buttstock design of a Sporter stock would not have.

Thanks. Is the flatter toe line hurting anything from offhand or other unsupported positions? It appears to be intended to help with riding a rear bag but not be completely flat like a target stock.

Personally, I prefer the more natural wrist angle and more positive tension to the shoulder offered by vertical grip neck “long range” stocks and I don’t find the extra bulk to be bulky, so I prefer this design over swept sporters for all applications.

I've actually added a vertical grip to one of my hunting rifles just to try it out and see if I like it (Tikka with a changeable grip). I've only shot it a few time like that so far, so the verdict is still out, but I think I kinda like it. It's certainly more comfortable from a bench, but I don't really notice it much in other positions. Where it does change things is in holding the rifle one handed around the grip/wrist---with the vertical grip, that's a little harder to do. But, if I'm carrying a rifle unslung and one handed, I'm carrying it from the balance point so I don't view that as a negative. I used the vertical grip for my bear hunt this spring and got along just fine.

Unfortunately, the only way to be sure is to try them.. Luckily for me, the Manners guys are a quick trip to KC.

A lot of it is personal preference and what your task/purpose for the rifle is. In your case a .35W isn't exactly a long range shooter, so if it was me I'd go for more of a sporter/mountain rifle style.

What guys will do is often buy a B&C or HS Precision, "something" that doesn't need bedding, play with it, then decide and order what you really want. A Manners is about an 8 month wait last time I checked. You can then get most of your money back by selling your "try" stock.

I'm pretty impressed with the Grayboe Phoenix I bought a couple months ago. Weighs about as much as a B&C/HS, way more adjustable, didn't need bedding and didn't break the bank.

Something like their Eagle or Eagle Pro would mimic a higher comb stock while also letting you play with length of pull. Right now for instance Bergara has Grayboe LA 700 "Terrain" stocks on sale for $250 with an M5 bottom metal inlet:

GRAYBOE TERRAIN STOCK LA M5 - BPI Outdoors, Inc

bpioutdoors.com

I'm considering getting a B&C just to try one. I've never had one of their stocks, so just trying one may be the path I end up on here. Ditto my consideration of the Grayboe Outlander and Terrain for this rifle. What prompted my post yesterday was considering the differences between the Outlander and Terrain. And I'm considering Stocky's carbons, which come in several different shapes. Ah . . . so many options.

I do have my eye on a Grayboe Eagle Pro, but not for this rifle. I think my 18" Bergara Ridge in 6.5 Creedmoor would be a good candidate for that. I don't like the stock it came with, and I wouldn't mind having M5 bottom metal and AICS mags for it. With the Creedmoor, I could get a 3-round mag that's flush fit when I want a smooth bottom and still use the larger mags when I don't mind something sticking beneath the stock.

 

[Okie_Poke]

My tried and true Savage 110 30-06 stock is pretty beat up after years of hunting so I picked up a new left handed wood stock. When I put the new stock on my 15+ year old rifle with an uber accurate 165 gr load, it looks like a shotgun pattern. Guess I either need to send the rifle to a gunsmith with the new stock or refinish the original one.

I don't want to discourage you from refinishing your old stock or sending the rifle with the new stock to a gunsmith. But I have a couple of suggestions before you do that if you like the new stock otherwise (which you may have already tried). First, I would make sure the action screws are torqued down appropriately. May as well double-check yours scope rings and bases too while you're at it. Next, I would check to see if the barrel is free floated up to the recoil lug. If it's not, 60-grit and a dowel rod (or a dremel tool if you dare) can fix that in not a lot of time. With a factory sporter contour barrel, it's not going to take much and might only be hitting slightly in one or two places. If those things don't fix it, I'm out of ideas.

 

[sage5907]

I've learned one thing this past year. If you decide to buy a McMillan stock you had better make sure you know the correct length of pull. I was going to shorten the length of pull by one eight inch on my McMillan stock and before I did anything I did some research and found that McMillan glues the recoil pad onto the stock. To change the length of pull the stock is shortened by sawing it off, a piece of wood may need to be bonded into the recess for something to attach to, and the new pad would be installed. I decided to leave well enough alone.

 

[Varminterror]

McMillan glues the recoil pad onto the stock.

This is common method of assembly for any composite stock manufacturer, not unique to McMillan.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I don't want to discourage you from refinishing your old stock or sending the rifle with the new stock to a gunsmith. But I have a couple of suggestions before you do that if you like the new stock otherwise (which you may have already tried). First, I would make sure the action screws are torqued down appropriately. May as well double-check yours scope rings and bases too while you're at it. Next, I would check to see if the barrel is free floated up to the recoil lug. If it's not, 60-grit and a dowel rod (or a dremel tool if you dare) can fix that in not a lot of time. With a factory sporter contour barrel, it's not going to take much and might only be hitting slightly in one or two places. If those things don't fix it, I'm out of ideas.

Did both. Made sure barrel wasn’t contacting the stock all the way down. Put old stock back on and groups went back to what they were.

 

[Varminterror]

When I put the new stock on my 15+ year old rifle with an uber accurate 165 gr load, it looks like a shotgun pattern. Guess I either need to send the rifle to a gunsmith with the new stock

Dollars to doughnuts you have terrible fitment in the inlet. Pressure points, shifting contact, voids, slippage, flexion... all bad things which can and do happen when inlets aren't bedded to the action, and all which can and do cause bullets to fly far and wide.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Dollars to doughnuts you have terrible fitment in the inlet. Pressure points, shifting contact, voids, slippage, flexion... all bad things which can and do happen when inlets aren't bedded to the action, and all which can and do cause bullets to fly far and wide.

Probably. More than I’m willing to deal with just for a pretty hunting rifle. Old stock is back on and waiting til fall.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I found a YouTube video that pretty succinctly described the “why” behind a stock shaped like the Manners EH1 (but not the EH1). I thought I’d post it in case others find it useful. Some of y’all told me the things explained in the video, but it took me a while to understand what you were telling me. Maybe this will shorten someone else’s learning curve.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SIAdaDoPWoc

I’m still trying to figure out what comparative advantage a classic style stock has except that it can be made lighter and trimmer. Ditto the M40 style. If you have resources for that or can explain, I’m still trying to learn.