Practicality of building a custom rifle with stock parts?

[Significent]

I’ve been hoping to purchase a rifle in 6mm Remington. I wanted to find a good quality firearm with a regular contour/weight, 26” barrel and a twist rate of 1 in 12. I’m not looking to shoot bullets heavier than 90gr, so stabilization won’t be a problem at the slow twist rate. I want the rifle to shoot fast and flat; hence the 26” barrel. I load my own ammo.

After looking around, the only options I see for a new rifle in 6mm Rem are two: a Remington VLS or a Ruger MKII. Neither is even close to what I’m looking for. The Remington is a heavy barreled rifle that weighs over 9 pounds. It’s got a twist rate of 1 in 9. The Ruger has a standard contour barrel but it’s 22” long with a 1 in 9 twist.

This brings me to my question. Would it be practical to build a custom rifle with stock parts? I have no experience building rifles. I’ve taken them apart and put them back together as most people probably have. Discussions I’ve read say that a novice could build a rifle with standard parts built on a Remington 700 action. I’ve priced some components at Brownell’s to find that just the action, and trigger guard / magazine kit would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $525. Add in about $200 for a barrel and another $150 for a modest stock and I’m looking at $875. Then there are supplies like sling swivels and a bedding kit which will bring the price up to about $900 or so. (A new Remington VLS can easily be had for about $580, the Ruger is about $90 or $100 less than that.

For the sake of argument, let’s say I have the cash and I’m able to put this rifle together. I spend the time to fit the stock and bed the barreled action properly (to the best of my limited abilities). I adjust the trigger the way I want it. I put mounts, rings and some good glass on top. Am I going to end up with a rifle that shoots sub-MOA groups or one that shoot 5-inch groups at 100 yards? Obviously, there are no guarantees on this “custom” rifle. The stock rifles both purportedly shoot MOA groups right out of the box.

I’m sure others have been at the same point I am now. Maybe hiring a gunsmith to build the rifle would be the way to go. Then, what would the finished cost be? Do they guarantee reasonable accuracy? I’d appreciate hearing of anyone’s experiences and/or recommendations for such a project. Thanks!

 

[Roudy]

Arisaka re-build

Significant,
Many years ago I bought a "junker" from a small sporting goods store. Someone had taken an Arisaka action added a custom 6mm Remington barrel and an off the shelf stock. The stock was partially inletted, but whoever started the project didn't or couldn't finish it. Now I am no professional but I finished inletting the stock, heavily glass bedded it (my first bedding job) added a scope, bipods and sling and used it for varmint hunting for several years. Turned out to be a very accurate rifle.

I found a lot of satisfaction in working on that rifle and fell in love with the 6mm remington cartridge. One way to go is to to buy an old mauser and use that for your basic action. You can probably get one for much less than $100, then add a custom barrel and pick the rifling twist rate for the bullet wieght you want to shoot. You would probably want to try the stock trigger, may be able to make it work good enough, if not then a Canjar or similar aftermarket trigger. Stocks are available to fit these mauser actions too.

I've always though it a challenge to build a very accurate rifle that will out-shoot folks who spend thousands of dollars for theirs. Which ever way you go good luck and enjoy yourself

 

[adaman04]

I second the Mauser. Those rifles are so universal in the aspect that you can get a barrel in any caliber you want. Accessories and parts are fairly inexpensive, and most of the work you can do yourself. Have fun with it.

 

[dakotasin]

significent- don't get worked up over a twist rate that is a little too fast. do get worked up over a twist rate that is too slow.

you don't say what the purpose of the gun might be. for varminting, paper punching, coyote bombing and that sort of thing, the heavy vls is the way to go. i actually added weight to my vls. if you are looking for a portable rifle, then you are kind of stuck.

to build a rifle... you need to start first w/ the rifle's intended purpose, and then start seperating wheat from chaff when getting into parts substitutions.

if you build a rifle from stock parts... much of a rifle's accuracy comes from the barrel and the quality of the 'smithing work. a surprisingly large number of factory barrels are moa or better from the box when handloaded for properly. so, yeah, you should be able to do what you want, though i wouldn't go about it the way you are contemplating.

try this, for a start: buy a used rem 700 adl. sell off the factory barrel. call the barrel maker of your choice and have the barrel you like delivered to your 'smith. have the 'smith finish the chambering, true the action, and screw on your pipe. take it home and bed it, then float the barrel. then shoot it. leave the trigger, bolt, firing pin, bottom metal, and stock there. you'll have a little more money invested into it than buying a new factory rifle, but you should be impressed w/ the finished product.

save the bottom metal, firing pin, trigger replacements and such for some other time, rifle, and purpose. if you are happy enough w/ the rifle to spend more money on it, then start w/ the biggest improvements first: stock, trigger, bottom metal...

at any rate, decide what exactly the role is you want the rifle to fill - and don't build a compromise rifle. spec out what you like (weight, especially), and then go from there.

 

[Onmilo]

Not only is your idea practical but gun cranks have been doing just what you are thinking about since mass produced firearms became available everywhere.

You will, in the end,spend more on your project than what it will cost you to buy one of the out of the box and for the masses specials, but you will have exactly what you want when you are finished.
Go for your idea and have fun doing it!

 

[Jim Watson]

Without questioning your purposes, 6mm Remington with 12" twist - which brings you back to the original .244 Remington - is not a stock item that I know of, whole rifle or replacement barrel.

So you need a special order barrel. Then you need it put on. Which requres barrel vise, action wrench, chamber reamer, headspace gauges, and some technique. Or a trip to a knowledgeable gunsmith. For a Remington. That will cost way more than $200.

If on a Savage, things are a little different. It is SAID (I have just bought a Savage rifle and haven't gotten bored with the factory chambering... yet.) that barrel swaps are a reasonable DIY. You can order a barrel of the desired twist, contour, and length, fully chambered from Pac-Nor, and install it with no more tools than barrel vise, barrel nut wrench, and headspace gauge. It will still cost a good deal more than the $200 you mention.
http://www.savageshooters.net/forum/

 

[adaman04]

I know a lot of folks over at Savageshooters buy the Stevens 200 and use the action off it for their builds. It's really no different than the Savage action, they just don't use the Accutrigger on them. Sell the get one for around 200 on sale, sell the barrel on ebay along with whatever else parts you don't you and it puts a little in the build fund. Good Luck! Let us know if you decide on anything.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'd say the 1 in 9 twist will hurt nothing -- I never heard anyone complain that the faster twist was less accurate with light bullets than the slow twist.

Before deciding to build a rifle on a mauser action, do some arithmetic -- add in the cost of tapping and drilling for a scope mount, reshaping or welding on a new bolt handle, and installing a scope-clearing safety. You can use the old stock -- but it isn't designed for scope use, so eventually you'll replace that. The total cost will be more than a new rifle.

 

[Significent]

This is a big help

Lots of good input here. Thanks for taking the time to educate me. I am looking for a portable rifle. That’s why I’ve shied away from the Remington VLS. If I were going to compromise, I would probably buy the VLS and just lug around the extra weight. I don’t have any hard facts, but it would seem to me that the faster twist would not only slow bullets down a bit, but also result in quicker throat erosion with the fast loads? Perhaps neither of these are salient factors. I was looking to build something with ballistics very much like the original 244.

I liked the idea of using the 700 action in the custom rifle because it’s a ubiquitous, known commodity. However, based on your input here, going the Savage/Steven’s route may be a more reasonable approach. I don’t own any Savage rifles but I’ve heard that the actions aren’t as smooth or built to the same tolerances as the 700. I’ve heard too that, although they may not be pretty or feel nice, they do shoot straight. Adaman04, you mentioned that the primary difference between the Stevens and the Savage is the Accutrigger. The one good thing I’ve read about the newer Savages is that these Accutriggers are very good. If this is true, wouldn’t it make sense to use a Savage rifle as my starting point rather than the Stevens? I’d guess there’s more a market for Savage barrels than Stevens barrels so it would be easier to sell. On the other hand, there looks to be about a $200 difference in retail price between the Stevens and the Savage. Assuming the difference in street prices is closer to $150, I can get a great trigger rather than a very good one. So, maybe the Stevens is a better option if there aren’t any other significant differences.

If I borrow the idea of having a gunsmith receive the barrel and have him “finish the chambering, true the action, and screw on your pipe” for the Stevens action, am I likely to get a straighter shooting rifle than if I bought the barrel vise, barrel nut wrench, and headspace gauge to attach the barrel myself?

Another little technicality: Savage doesn’t sell a .257 Roberts so how do find a bolt with the proper sized bolt face and a workable mechanism to extract empty cases? Does the gunsmith have to do custom work to create a custom bolt?

Thanks again for your help everyone.

 

[Jim Watson]

SSS sells a trigger that would be good on a Stevens.

Bolt face is not a problem. .244 has the same .473" head diameter as any other standard middle size cartridge descended from 8x57.

What do you visualize as your DIY vs gunsmith breakdown? Is this to be a home project or is the end product more important, if you have it 'smithed a lot?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you're concerned about velocity enough to worry about the effect of twist, why not choose a more powerful cartridge? The 6mm-.284 is a good choice. It's a good performer with light bullets at fairly low pressures.

 

[Significent]

Jim, as for my DIY-to-gunsmith breakdown, I’m torn. I’d like to do it myself. I’d even like to save a few bucks. But, in the end, I want the best accuracy I can get. I infer from you question, that my desire for accuracy means using a gunsmith. What’s a ball-park estimate to have a gunsmith do this type of work?

Vern, I hadn’t given much thought to wildcats like the 6mm-284, or 6mm-06 because I have no experience forming brass. The 100 to 200 fps increase appeals to me. Is the 6mm-284 short enough for a short action? Is reforming .284 brass difficult. Is .284 brass plentiful? Is the rebated rim going to complicate finding a bolt that will extract cases properly? If I decided to give the 6mm-284 a try, will this cause my gunsmith heartburn (I don’t have a gunsmith)?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern, I hadn’t given much thought to wildcats like the 6mm-284, or 6mm-06 because I have no experience forming brass. The 100 to 200 fps increase appeals to me. Is the 6mm-284 short enough for a short action?

The 6mm-.284 case is 2.170" long, while the 6mm Remington is 2.233. Any action long enough for a 6mm Remington will be fine for a 6mm-.284.

Is reforming .284 brass difficult.

No. I think you can do it easily -- on trick is to take the stem out of your seating die, and use that for intial necking, then finish with the sizing die.

Is .284 brass plentiful?

Well, you're not going to find buckets full lying around at the local range, but Midway catalogs it at $158.99 for 500 rounds. www.midwayusa.com

Is the rebated rim going to complicate finding a bolt that will extract cases properly?

The parent case is a standard .473 head, designed to feed in standard .308/.30-06 rifles. Being rebated causes no problems.

If I decided to give the 6mm-284 a try, will this cause my gunsmith heartburn (I don’t have a gunsmith)?

If my gunsmith couldn't do the job, I'd know I had the wrong gunsmith.

 

[Jim Watson]

Sig, I just don't know. I am probably going to tackle rebarreling my Savage... one of these days, but right now I haven't even assembled the necessities to shoot the factory. The Accutrigger is fine, the stock is fine and I hope the bedding is adequate, but my application is different.

If you start with a Stevens donor rifle, pull off and ebay barrel and stock, you can go through the menu at
http://www.savageshooters.net/sharpshooters/
and see what a barrel, stock, trigger, and labor will cost.
(They can get other barrels than what is cataloged so a 12 twist .244 would just take a little more time, not money. If SSS couldn't get it, Pac-Nor will make ready to install Savage barrels, and they will do about any combination of specs.)

Or you could buy a factory Savage and just replace the barrel with a Pac-Nor.
http://www.savagearms.com/14Classic.htm

I expect a Remington based rifle to your likes would cost more.

 

[Buzztail]

As said earlier, a Savage can be built to suit you needs for a reasonable ammount of money. That's where my vote goes

 

[Coltdriver]

It is an interesting question that you pose.

I would only confirm from my own homework that it is easy to get about $1000 into a rifle you build from parts like that. The problem is that the outcome may be uncertain. Using a smith on certain critical areas like the barrel setback and head spacing may improve your odds.

Another approach would be to start with the 700 and get a very high quality barrel made to your specification.

Then work backwards with trigger, stock etc.