Help Me Pick My First AR

[Zenon]

Well, having just started shooting a little over two years ago, I've worked my way through several semi-auto pistols and revolvers (1911's and S&W revolvers- Whoo Hoo! ).

It's time to graduate - I've been looking around at AR15s and have seen locally:
- Olympic Arms
- Bushmaster
- A "Private Label" from one of the local ranges
- Colt

I know I want a removable handle, flash hider/muzzle brake, and reasonable weight. My goals are target shooting, general plinking and HD. I want to stay under $1K; the selection looks fine in that range.

Long story short, I'm leaning towards a Colt M4, it seems to have everything I want and it's in the price range I've been looking at (850-900). The others seem to pale in comparison to the Colt, I'd say Bushmaster comes in a close second in terms of quality and fit/finish, Olympic seems to be full of compromises, and as far as the private label goes, I don't know if I want to deal with an assembleage of parts for my first AR.

Should I go for the M4 or keep looking?

 

[theCZ]

You might want to look at Rock River Arms. Pretty good prices and lots of people are happy with their AR's.

 

[natedog]

If weights a concern, look for the Bushmaster Superlights. They only weigh a little over 6 pounds. Most ARs have the "HBAR match barrel" which is just a really fat, heavy barrel, which ruins the compact AR's handling capabilities. IIRC, Olympic Arms has an AR that weighs about 5 1/2 pounds!

 

[Quintin Likely]

I went through the same thing you're going through a few months ago. I settled on a 20" A3 Bushmaster with a target crown muzzle. I'm very satisfied with it so far, although I kinda sorta wish I bought one with the A2 upper to begin with, but that's a different story in itself.

I don't have any experience with Oly Arms, although what little I've read seem to favor that they're good products.

I think Bushmasters and RRAs are probably the two most common you'll find on your dealer's shelves, and maybe a DPMS or Armalite. A few things to consider:

-If you want a real flash hider, it's gotta be a preban, which you probably won't find used for less than $1K. I don't think a bayo lug and a flash hider offers enough benefits to the average joe to warrant the extra cost for a preban gun, unless you really, really, really want something The Man says you can't have.

-M4 profile guns with muzzlebrakes are *loud* You're sure to get everyone's attention at the range when you touch one off. The shorty M4s also have a shorter sight radius, which shouldn't be too big a deal if you're gonna scope it, but the longer sight radius with the 16" or 20" guns helps when you're shooting through the iron sights. If you're set on something that's more manueverable in close quarters, consider the Bushmaster Dissipator, it relocates the gas block so you get a shorter barrel than a standard 20" gun but you still get the full sight radius of one.

-And Colts have oddball size (smaller, I think) takedown pins, so practically everyone elses' upper or lower on the market won't fit a Colt upper or lower without a stepped adapter; you can get those from Bushmaster, Brownells, or several other places.

I haven't had any problems with my Bushmaster A3; it's screwed together very well and is extremly reliable. The trigger sucks, but I'll be working on that part soon. The beautiful thing about ARs is you can buy uppers as you see fit. I'd suggest a 20" A3 for starters and if you want to use this thing for home defense, a 16" upper, with standard target crown muzzles.

-Quintin

 

[BusMaster007]

Bushmaster A3 20
Plain as it is, it's a great choice for a first AR15.

Looks like this one has the AK BRAKE on it, plus a Redi-Mag extra magazine holder and an ERGO grip.

I like Hogue grips on mine.

 

[Redlg155]

I think the "mock" M4 is a good choice for an AR. Although the barrel profile is just for looks on 99 percent of civilian ARs out there, they do get some points in the "neato" category. Put all the gadgets on to your hearts desire. Then when you get serious about shooting an AR, get a good 20 or 24" upper!

Bushmaster makes excellent rifles and have great customer service. It's hard to find anyone that really isn't happy with a genuine Bushmaster AR. You can also get them for a bit less than Colts. Resale value is also excellent.



Good SHooting
Red

 

[shadow 1]

Yeah, I had me the same problem a couple of months ago. Picked up a vanilla RRA Entry and then I put all the toys on it.

1. ACE Skeleton stock
2. Surefire M4 rails/Mag Pull Rail covers
3. Surefire M900
4. Aimpoint M2
5. Single Point Sling from The Wilderness
6. To be added soon: Surefire Scout light.

I am very happy with it, while it was vanilla I out about 500 rounds through it, very nice, lots of fun. Now that I put everything on it, it's funner

 

[Black Snowman]

If weight is a concern you might look into the Carbon 15s now that Bushmaster has taken them over and (supposedly) worked out the bugs. Priced compedatively too.

 

[Snaps]

I'm not sure on the prices but the nicest feeling one I've shot was a Wilson Combat. Not sure which model but it was the longer barrel with the bipods.

I do prefer the M4gerys though over the longer ones

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Why not wait til Fall of 2004 and get one after the big price drop?

 

[KW]

If you want an M4 style gun, I think your best bet right now is to go on AR-15.com and check out a company called Legal Transfers. He can set you up with a RRA M4 that has a 16" barrel but with a birdcage style flash hider sleeve covering the end. This way it looks like a real M4 profile 14.5" barrel, but you get the ballistic advantage of a 16" and don't have the extra loud muzzle brake of the factory setups.

Check out this thread for some info and pictures: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=132989

 

[ajacobs]

Shadow,

What is a surefire scout light?

 

[Zenon]

Wow, great, thanks all.

Well, y'all got me thinking and I think the best bet is to go with something basic I can build on and learn with.

Rather than go with a Colt "mock" M4 it is beginning to make sense to go with a more basic (and less expensive) AR and get my feet wet with changing out components and upgrading as I go.

It's a good thing I asked you folks, I almost went with the Colt, just because it's a Colt, but that's a non-issue now in my mind. As a minimum I'll get an A3 upper and probably a 20 inch barrel to start, I definitely want to scope it low, but have the option of using iron sights as well. Oly and Bushmaster seem to be the most common around here, I will also look for Armalite and DPMS at the Valley Forge Show next week.

Thanks again all, THR ROCKS!

 

[go8dalejr]

Just got a colt 6400c has the standard front pin about the same price
as the bushmaster love the gun colt keeps there value . Just my opinion
as everyone has a prefered brand go with what will make you happy
a 100 dollars is not worth being unsatisfied myself.

 

[Amish_Bill]

For what it's worth, there are two (ok, 3) companies that make a mid-length handguard-wearing 16" carbine. Armalite (and their discount brand Eagle Arms) and Rock River Arms.

Two examples - http://rockriverarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=AR0325X&storeid=1&image=ucara4cm.gif
http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/components/223topends.htm

The mid-length handguard is a very nice compromise between a full size rifle and a carbine. The barrel is as short and lite as a carbine, and the sight radius is longer than the carbine. The longer handguards also seem to feel better than the normal short carbine handguards.

If you can, I'd recommend getting your hands on an example of one of these before making your decision.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

IMHO, Bushmaster/Colt

Whatever you buy,avoid a soldered on Muzzle device.
Hopefully on September of 2004, it will be legal again to own the dreaded Threaded Barrel End.
Soldered on barrel appliances interfere with the disassembly of the barrel group.

Colt follows the official spec print pretty well,
but to avoid the political stigma of mounting military uppers,
most civilian colts do not accept "standard" AR uppers

Bushmaster sells the most ARs to civilians,
uses 4150 barrel steel AND chromelines the bore.
They set the price point for a proper civilian AR15.
They do parkerize the barrel and FSB as an assembly, so the barrel under the front sight base is bare...
When you send your HBAR out to KKT for a 2005 weight reduction and evil threading, this will be corrected.

the other manufacturers cut costs by skipping processes or using a lesser grade of parts

Olympic was notorious for over using chamber reamers
and producing poorly finished, ringed chambers

The www.MD-AR15.com site has a good FAQ on the various manufacturers

 

[TODD3465]

I'd go with the Colt M-4 Sporter. I have 2 myself.

 

[Jack19]

I'll absolutely second the recommendation of Pete at Legal Transfers. He's a stand up guy, is as honest as the day is long, does great work, ships when he says he's going to ship and his prices are among the best around. I got an RRA from him and he attached a Bushie Superlight barrel that I purtchased....it's been ultra reliable and easy to carry around.

Skip the M4 profile barrel unless you'll be attaching a grenade launcher. They ain't that cool.

 

[shadow 1]

ajacobs, you can check it out in the new issue of Surefire Combat Tactics, it's basically an LED head(i.e. L4) attached to a battery barrel, that has either an ARMS or thumb screw mount to attach to you rails, the head will be interchangeable between the incan and LED, I see it as a good search llight, longer run time, flooding an area with light up to about 12 feet. I wouldn't use it exclusively without a true tactical light attached to my M4gery

 

[vanfunk]

If you're in the market for an M-4, treat yourself to handling a Colt MT 6400 before you make your decision. Here's why the Colt is much, much better than anyone else's offering :

Upper and Lower receivers marked "M4" - purely cosmetic but high "kewl" factor.

1/7" twist hard-chromed barrel, best for shooting the 75's and 77's (but 55 gr. surplus shoots just fine, tho)

Standard size front and rear push pins (Colt has used standard pins for a few years - the stigma of the older guns persists, however)

Real M4 double heatshield handguards

Front side sling attachment

M4 feedramp cuts

Flattop with those RAS numbers

Heavy "H" buffer and heavy-duty extractor spring

When you really break things down feature for feature, the Colt comes standard with most of the things guys end up upgrading on their AR's from other makers. Honestly, I don't really think you can go wrong with an AR from any of the lead makers, but the Colt really is far more authentic, if that matters. I've owned a bunch of Bushmasters and an Armalite, and the Colt has outperformed them in function, accuracy, fit/finish, and overall value. Price for the MT6400 is only about $50 higher than the Bushmaster M4A3 - money very well spent, IMO.

HTH,
vanfunk

 

[Amish_Bill]

Vanfunk - don't judge soley by the takedown pins.

Every civvy Colt AR that I've ever heard of has been intentionally bastardized in some small way.
Takedown screws instead of pins
Oversized takedown screws or pins
Oversized fire control pins
Blind pinned reciever blocks
Cast/Forged/Milled in reciever blocks
Prebans without Bayo lugs
(and maybe a few more that are not jumping to my mind)

Don't get me wrong - people who have them seem to like them, but for a similar or better price, I'll get something that uses the exact same sizes & types of parts as every other brand instead of something "special."

 

[dbshabo]

Zenon, read this it may help answer some questions for ya.

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/theseriousar.msnw

Shabo

 

[Bainx]

I ain't no AR expert but,
Shot an Olympic and it was a jammin, crappy trigger hunk of junk
Shot a Bushmaster and the trigger was like 20 pounds
Shot a Colt.....much better than the above mentioned
Shot a Rock River Arms and boy.....perfection at last. Trigger was GREAT, feed fire and extraction was GREAT and accuracy was GREAT

That concludes my experience in total with the AR
Glad to have been on the AR show

 

[bvmjethead]

Bushmaster or RRA 20" A3

Trigger and finish is a bit better on RRA AR's but you're going to pay more and wait a bit longer generally speaking.

www.ar15.com is a great place to learn everything you ever could want to know about AR's.

May I suggest you go there and ask a few questions before making your decision.

 

[TaurusGL]

RRA all the way. I got mine cheaper than a bushy and it shoots MOA or better all the time. No malfunctions using 500 rnds of Black Hills blue box 52 grn.