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Help me pick my "primary" CCW

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Alan Fud, Apr 7, 2003.

?

Out of THESE TWO CHOICES, which is the better CCW?

  1. Para-Ordnance C7.45LDA (eight rounds of .45ACP)

    43 vote(s)
    70.5%
  2. Smith & Wesson 3913TSW (eight rounds of 9mm)

    18 vote(s)
    29.5%
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  1. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Before this thread turns into recommendations for everything under the sun, let me say that I am not planning on purchasing a new firearm. I already own a number of CCW's (.357 J-frame snubbies from both Taurus and S&W; as well as a number of compact & sub-compact pistols in 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP in both single and double stack configurations).

    Instead, I'm asking which gun, of the firearms that I already own, should be my preferred CCW? For the past few years, my primary CCW has been the eight round Smith & Wesson 3913TSW in 9mm because I felt that it was accurate & reliable and the right size (not too big and not too small) ...
    [​IMG]
    ... However, several months ago I began to swtich over to the eight round Para-Ordnance C7.45LDA in .45ACP. It's basicly the same size as the 3913TSW but in .45ACP instead of 9mm and since the C7.45LDA is all steel, it helps absorb the recoil and I can shoot it about as accurately as the 3913TSW which has an alloy frame.

    However, recently I've come across a few thread here (see this one as one example) which seem to suggest that eight rounds of 9mm might serve me better than eight rounds of .45ACP!

    This is basicly a .45ACP vs 9mm question but I am curious what members think and whether I would be better armed with my Para-Ordnance C7.45LDA (eight rounds of .45ACP) or my Smith & Wesson 3913TSW (eight rounds of 9mm)? Thanks in advance,
    [​IMG] » www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com «
    Alligator Al: Share What You Know & Learn What You Don't.
     

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  2. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    I have absolutely no experience with either......

    so take my vote with a grain of salt.

    I chose the 3913 simply because I have never heard a bad thing uttered about one. Everybody I know who owns one loves them and I have even heard their quality and trigger compared to.....GASP...a SIG. Now that's just crazy talk as far as I am concerned but what do I know.:D The 3913s I have handled were very nice.

    On the contrary I have heard so many negative comments about the offerings from PARA that I personally would not trust one with my life. I would much prefer a "real" 1911 made by Springfield, Colt, Kimber etc. The PARAs that I have handled seem nice enought in the hand but are too much money for me to try because of all the bad press I have heard.

    I am not trashing either of your guns nor do I really have a leg to stand on as far as actual shooting time with either. I am only going by my word of mouth knowledge and handling experience.

    Oh yeah I am a .45 guy at heart so I did not suggest the 3913 because of the caliber.
     
  3. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    Which one can you shoot more comfortably & more effectively? I'd go w/ the one I'd feel more confident with ;)
     
  4. Smoke

    Smoke Member

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    I really like the Para Ordnance as far as Double action goes.

    I have no experience with that particular S&W.
     
  5. tlhelmer

    tlhelmer Member

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    I shot a Para Ordinance LDA at the range one time. They are super sweet.

    If your like me on guns your kind of fickle anyway.
     
  6. tbeb

    tbeb Member

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    Is your .45 ACP 100% reliable with JHP's? If it is then that's what I'd carry, and never look back.

    I have more confidence in a .45 caliber loaded with 230 gr. JHP's. I also shoot it better than my 9mm. Both calibers are good for self defense, but don't believe for a minute that the 9mm will serve you better.
     
  7. blades67

    blades67 Member

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    Carry them both.:rolleyes:
     
  8. garrettwc

    garrettwc Member

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    Two things to consider here, since basically this is a variation of the old 9MM vs. 45ACP theme.

    1. Check out the discussion at the Ammolab forum on caliber selection. The difference between the two with premium SD ammo is practically nil.

    2. The 45ACP is a subsonic round, and the dropoff in velocity from a sub 4" barrel is much more dramatic than with the 9MM.

    Given those two considerations, I would stick with the 3913 and some +P 124 gr loads.
     
  9. Maddogkiller

    Maddogkiller Member

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    If you aren't putting at least 100 rds a week end thru one of those pistols, I mean training with them, not target shooting, I mean TRAINING with one of them on a regular and extensive basis, then it doesn't matter which one you carry because you aren't going to get it out and on target in time anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2003
  10. Dave Williams

    Dave Williams Member

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    well,

    I personally cannot fathom how small bullets are better than big bullets. We train, buy good carry gear, research defense issues, all things done to give ourselves every little edge in a fight. And then we consciously choose small bullets? Not me.

    Dave
     
  11. PCRCCW

    PCRCCW Member

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    Simple science....two different means to the same end.
    If you want to damage a wall...solid brick 10 feet high and 3 feet thick.......at the end of a 5 mile straight away....

    1) Do you choose a Ferrari GTB308 that weighs 3400 lbs that hits the wall at 190 mph?

    2) Do you choose a Kenworth that weighs 12000 lbs that hits the wall at 98 mph?

    Both hurt the wall.....both are FUBAR when done.....
    Different means same end.......

    Shoot well......

    PS...Id gladly carry either.
     
  12. Berg01

    Berg01 Member

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    S&W 3913 w/124 gr. GDHPs; absolutely one of the best CCWs; when the SHTF, this one will go bang!
     
  13. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    Which one do you shoot better? :scrutiny:
     
  14. Berg01

    Berg01 Member

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    Which one I shoot better is not as important as which one will work for the guy carrying it. For a CCW, reliability is a more critical criteria than accuracy, and Mr. Fud said that he had owned the 3913 for a few years, and had the P/A LDA for a few months; for a carry gun, I would be more comfortable with the gun I had owned and practiced with the longest, and the 3913 has a proven track record for reliability.
     
  15. sanchezero

    sanchezero Member

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    I picked the LDA b/c I like a 1911ish platform and can't stand that line of S&Ws.

    As far as ammo...

    BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH.

    And don't forget...

    yaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayaddayadda.

    :neener:
     
  16. Country Boy

    Country Boy Member

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    Fud-
    You're an intelligent guy, do a little research. I'm kind of surprised at a "newbie" kind of question from you. No flame, just surprised. Which do YOU shoot better? Which gun is more reliable? Which cartridge are you more comfortable with?

    Personally, I would go with a .45, because they come "pre-expanded" :cool:
     
  17. Schuey2002

    Schuey2002 Member

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    Make the decision by saying this to yourself..

    'inny minny miny mo'

    :neener:
     
  18. Berg01

    Berg01 Member

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    Mr. Maddogkiller raised the best argument on this thread, in that you have to train with the gun you carry, and because 9mm ammo is cheaper than .45 ACP, you are likely to train more with a 9mm vs. a .45 ACP. Because of the fact that there is a lot of good 9mm defensive ammo available these days, I think the 3913 would work.
     
  19. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    Country Boy, After a few initial hic-ups during the first 200 rounds, the Para has been running flawless -- 500+ rounds. I've attributed those early malfunctions to the break-in period.

    At 50 feet (the eyes aren't what they use to be and the days when I could put a bullet in the middle of the "X" at 25 yards are long gone), I'm able to shoot both of them equally well. The Para has more of a kick because of the larger caliber but it is also all steel and heavier that the 3913 (which has an alloy frame) and that added weight absorbs the heavier recoil rather well.

    Consequentially, I would rate the accuracy & reliablity of both guns about equal. If there is a difference, then it is too small to be accurately measured.

    That brings it down to the effectiveness of the 9mm VS the .45ACP. I have always been of the belief that the .45ACP was superior to the 9mm which is why I purchased the Para in the first place -- it was ABOUT the same size and overall shape of my 3913 making concealment with either one about the same.

    However, as I stated in my opening post, I have read a number of things which seems to indicate that the 9mm MIGHT be superior to the .45ACP. This is an area that I have no personal experience in -- I've spend the past two decades putting little holes in paper (target shooting) ... I have never shot anyone nor have I been shot.

    It may seem like a "newbie" question but even so-called "experts" disagree on the effectiveness of the .45ACP vs the 9mm and I'm interested in getting input from other members regarding these two choices.

    As I said initially, these are my two "preferred" CCW's. If deeper concealment is required, I'll carry a J-frame or if circrumstances permit, I'll carry ten rounds of .40S&W in a compact pistol. But under MOST circumstances, it would be either the C7.45LDA or the 3913TSW.

    Given that accuracy & reliability is ABOUT the same or the difference too small to be objectively measured, would you go with eight rounds of .45ACP or eight rounds of 9mm?

    Alan Fud

    PS: Thanks to all that have replied.
     
  20. nemesis

    nemesis Member

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    I carry a concealed Para C7.45 Companion daily but I am familiar with the Smith.

    They are almost the same size but the Para is much heavier. I don't find that a drawback for carrying but the weight does damp the recoil and the overall balance doesn't change as much when the magazine runs empty, due to the steel frame.

    The Para's safety is much easier to quickly disengage on the thumb downstroke than the Smith is due to the Smith's need to be thumbed forward AND up. The Para comes naturally but the Smith takes work and practise.

    Most defensive presentations stop the aggression without the need to fire. At least according to the information that I've read. I'd guess the "Colt 45" appearance may be something of a deterrence, as may be the damned big hole in the end of the barrel.

    And, when all else is said and done,..........the Para has the best darned trigger I've ever felt! It's the trigger that convinced me to pitch my Sig 225 (at least for daily carry) and buy an LDA. The trigger tips the balance for me.
     
  21. TheMariner

    TheMariner Member

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    Well, the only real experts I think whose advice is worth a damn are over in Iraq and Afghan sneaking around and killing people. Given most of them utilize the .45 ACP, I suppose I would too, if I were able to handle the weapon with two hands or ONE hand.

    Seeing as how I can't reliably shoot with one hand from the only .45 I have worked with in a size I would carry, I dropped to the .40S&W.... But I were able, .45... most firefights occur at 15 to twenty feet or less anyway... and the longest shot anyone here is reasonbly going to make is about 50yards. After that, few people have the cool and nerve to shoot steady from any position.
     
  22. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    If I had to choose CCW among those choices, I would take the j frame. If one gun is all you can carry than take a revolver.
     
  23. Serpico

    Serpico Member

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    They may look similar in size but I would guess the smith is about 10 ounces lighter....big big difference in my book for all day carry...and the 3913 is one of the most underated guns I know....wish I had one but can't justify another 9....and I have too much leather for my P7...
     
  24. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    I know first hand how good of a pistol the 3913 is -- which is why I own three of them ...
    [​IMG]
    ... but do eight 9mm's beat eight .45ACP's in a compact gun?
     
  25. Country Boy

    Country Boy Member

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    Alan- I'd still have to go with a .45, although with modern ammo, I would feel very comfortable with a 9mm. I own and shoot both, and carried a 9mm for a while before I switched to a .45. I'm just more comfortable with the larger round. When shooting steel plates, the .45 made a more resounding "dong" than the 9mm. Good luck.
     
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