Help me pick out my first AR

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Carbine length rails don't work very well. Your flashlight will be too close and mess up your grip.

Carbine length M4 grips are fine for basic carbines. But they are at the minimum length for todays stances. If your going to slurg for a free float rail system, better to get a longer one.

Try a 12" rail system on a 16" if you want rails on your carbine. Like this:
zzBCM-URG-Mk12-3X20DD14-2.jpg

I'd suggest saving up a bit more and building one yourself. Or going with a more standard carbine to cut costs.

You don't really need a two stage trigger on a carbine, maybe a SPR (I don't), but not a carbine.
 
If $1K is out of your price range, maybe you should start with something really basic and upgrade and you go. Perhaps you could check out a 16" middie from Spike's or BCM or even a bargain bin carbine from CMMG.
 
Set your price range, figure out what you want to use it for, and buy a rifle that fits those criteria.

A short barreled rifle with flip up sights is going to be less that ideal if you intend to do most of your shooting off a benchrest.

If you buy a factory-built, name-brand AR, the chances of getting a dud are nearly zero.
 
honestly, check out a DPMS dissipator/ 16'' barrel, with rifle length sights.

full handguard too !

my neighbor has one, i liked it so much, i've built one for me, and starting another dissy project.
best of both worlds if ya ask me :)

i really think DPMS has the best dissy on the market. its rifle gas, and everyone who owns one just loves it.

peabody
 
get a BCM upper of your choice and a lower and stock, grip, and foregrip if wanted of your choice. You can also throw in a Daniel Defense Omega rail and a decent rear sight.

All of this will go for about $11-1200 and be way more gun than that RRA.
 
dont worry about 12" rail systems, they are worthless. you dont need but half that amount, if that. if you buy a large flashlight like the guy said just get a vertical grip or the magpul angled grip. he says they dont work very well? take a look at a military combat carbine.
 
JoeMal said:
Any reasoning behind this? I generally hear nothing but good things about DPMS rifles
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Same reason as to avoiding RRA, Shrubmaster, etc.
Nothing really wrong with them, but your money is best spent elsewhere.

DPMS, RRA, & Shrubby are businesses that produce AR's for profit. They don't live, eat, and breath AR's with the passion BCM, LMT, KAC, Larue, DD, etc. It's obvious that some companieshave a bit more "heart" in thier product than others.

The "chart" is dying it's death finally. If an AR deosn't exceed "the chart" then it really isn't worth looking at. Any AR co. out of touch with current tech, or one that cuts corners is not worth your time.

So while Bushy, RRA, &DPMS make a decent rifle, they're charging you good money for it as well. Just a little bit more gets you a combat grade or better upper from BCM, with all the current correct specs.
 
you know what they say about opinions....I have had several (Colt, Rock River Car 15, Bushmaster etc and still do) Rock River is a good starter AR15, spending lots of money to pimp them out is usually unnecessary and expensive, dont go for everything you read unless you got deep pockets. you may find you dont even like an AR 15 so dont go overboard at first...and DPMS makes some really fine arms, I know...fyi, I am 56 and carried an M16 38 years ago (still preferr the M14)
 
Any reasoning behind this? I generally hear nothing but good things about DPMS rifles
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Then you aren't listening.

DPMS is only a slight edge above Hesse and Oly. For that same money you could get a much better rifle with much better QC.

and DPMS makes some really fine arms, I know...fyi, I am 56 and carried an M16 38 years ago (still preferr the M14)
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How does this give you any insight on DPMS? How do you KNOW they are fine arms? Do you have any real training? Have you spoken with instructors or Industry professionals? They have nothing in common with an M16 or M4 except a general outward appearance. I have owned DPMS rifles. I also used to sell them. There is a reason that people who actually take Firearms ownership seriously, have a dislike for DPMS junk.
 
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EVERYONE has had a bad experience with one brand or another. Let's not start this crap again. I own a DPMS that I've shot the pudding out of and it's fine. You could do better and you could do worse. It's a very competative market out there and the crappy brands will usually present themselves quickly. The rest of the rifles that fall into your price range are pretty much the same, with preferences for individual brands coming from individual experiences and not an overall trend in quality.
 
I am sorry friend but you are very wrong.
I am not talking about 1 bad experience. I am talking about 3 Failed DPMS rifles that I have personally owned and more unhappy dealers getting them than I care to remember. Everything from out of spec chambers to cracked FSB to stocks so fragile they were broken in shipping. The guys at DPMS are nice. They even mean well. But they don't make quality ARs

Rifles in a particular price range are not anywhere near the same. A DPMS cost the same as a S&W and is half the rifle of the Smith. A BCM cost the same as a Bushmaster but is a far superior rifle. Etc, Etc, Etc. The list goes on.

The list of reasons DPMS are not quality are easily unsearchable. Show me one serious instructor that uses or even recommends DPMS or other rifles of that level.


And yes I know they are fine for someone who goes to the range once a month and shoots 150 rounds. But then again I could buy a Smart Car to go to work it. It has 4 wheels. It may bet me there. But it cost the same as a real car and lacks the features and reliability of an Accord, or Fusion.
 
I think on a budget, a Daniel Defense XV is about the best value out there from a quality manufacturer. Can be had for ~$900 or less NIB. For a bit more (if you must have a rail), the DDM4 is also a great value considering the accessories that come on it.

BCM also has some great products at very good values, both for complete rifles or as components for a build.

IMHO, both of the above brands put out a better overall product vs. RRA.


If I was in your position, the XV would be at the top of my list.
 
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I upgraded to a setup like this and I love it. Full length free float front rail tube on a 16 bbl.

Zerodefect said:
Carbine length rails don't work very well. Your flashlight will be too close and mess up your grip.

Carbine length M4 grips are fine for basic carbines. But they are at the minimum length for todays stances. If your going to slurg for a free float rail system, better to get a longer one.

Try a 12" rail system on a 16" if you want rails on your carbine. Like this:
zzBCM-URG-Mk12-3X20DD14-2.jpg

I'd suggest saving up a bit more and building one yourself. Or going with a more standard carbine to cut costs.

You don't really need a two stage trigger on a carbine, maybe a SPR (I don't), but not a carbine.
Click to expand...
 
i like DPMS. they make great National Match service rifles. pretty accurate out of the box.

but i wouldn't own one of their M4 clones. The specs are just not there, and there are way better values out there.
 
But the price is a tad bit out of my range.

Any suggestions?
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I'd suggest a more basic model - my shooting budy has an RRA - very nice rifle - regular M4.

I'd also suggest looking at a S&W. See the CDNN catalog - the prices are goofy because they are showing the rebate. A shop near my old home in PA has them for the best price, and S&W seems to have a good rep from what I've read everywhere, and I doubt anyone will beat them in CS. As has been said - an AR from a major manufacturer is a low risk game.

I just don't by into the philosophy that you have to buy from a 'sole source' AR maker. RRA and others have a good rep. S&W has a great rep and the best CS in the business.

I DO think that the link you gave to the RRA Op 2 is really tempting. I don't understand the deal about a rail on a carbine. Too many options out there, and sooooo much mall ninja stuff.

You CAN nail a S&W MOE for about $1000 +tax/transfer, and then get $1000 back. I think the MOW gear feels SO good on an M4m and it is practical.
 
I shoot an RRA Operator. Customer service? Yeah, I showed up at their production facility last December in a blizzard, asked for someone to answer questions and 3 min. later had an armorer with 2 models in hand discussing features with me.

Those wanting to spend SERIOUS money SHOULD check out LMT, they're right down the road from me too and make the industries BEST lower...the same lower they sell to Rock River for their ARs. That much I know from having met and become friends with nearly a dozen of RRA's employees.

Perhaps people should get their facts straight before distorting them. The Larson brothers (owners of RRA) have worked for the likes of Springfield Armory, one as head armorer, and Les Baer who makes his home 20 miles down the road from me as well.
 
You could get the mid-length RRA and then have rails that don't go over the gas block if that's not your thing, and still probably have a good grip and light placement.

I also recommend Armalite
 
By TexasPatriot.308:
you know what they say about opinions....I have had several (Colt, Rock River Car 15, Bushmaster etc and still do) Rock River is a good starter AR15, spending lots of money to pimp them out is usually unnecessary and expensive, dont go for everything you read unless you got deep pockets. you may find you dont even like an AR 15 so dont go overboard at first...and DPMS makes some really fine arms, I know...fyi, I am 56 and carried an M16 38 years ago (still preferr the M14)
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Worth repeating.:)
 
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