Help me understand... a 10lb rifle 'worth' it's weight in gold?

[Hookeye]

That Merkel falling block tempts me
I just don't want to work all those weekends to pay myself back for buying it LOL

Single Shot Rifles

 

[mm93]

What someone is willing to pay for a particular gun is based pretty much on their income level. So although I've never even dreamed of buying a $325,000 Purdy shotgun, I can understand for a multimillionaire it's not different than me buying a $6000 antique rifle, or someone buying a $1000 rifle. Your interest and collecting focus is going to be dictated by your gun budget I'd hope. I've never made payments on a gun purchase in my life, and don't plan to. If I can save for 6 months to buy one good gun, or 2-3 good guns cash, that's fine. But whatever I can put aside in my gun fund is going to dictate where my interest in guns goes. I surely hope that's my business, and not the business of others.

 

[Hookeye]

Some decent stuff doesn't sit around long.

I don't walk around with a couple grand in overalls next to my chew LOL

Layaway is nice to toss a few on it, secure it, to come back later and pay if off.
Its more about convenience than budget.

 

[CraigC]

The customer who buys such is making a statement. “I want that experience.” Because you don’t need to spend $1.2 million on a double rifle. $15k suffices, and $350,000 would get you most of the rest of the experience too. So the 1.2 million version is more of a statement piece by the maker: “this is what we can do for the world’s most exclusive clientele.” It is advertising. It will probably be bought by a rapper. It could also, realistically be purchased by someone more in the traditional clientele of the firm who simply decides that he wants the best, period, money no object. But I highly doubt there will be (or can be) much comparison-shopping, because at this level, price hardly matters.

Yeah but that's not what you said. What you said was:

They could just as easily ask 2.2 million because the customer who will pay 1.2 will pay 2.2 without blinking.

As if the attitude is, "what's an other million dollars".

I guarantee you price matters. As I said, you don't get to that point by being idiotic with your money.

 

[luv2safari]

I have known people with guns "too pretty to shoot." I am not one of them.

Back when double express rifles were hunting guns, Elmer Keith wrote of a .500 Nitro with appreciable erosion in the right barrel from hot Cordite ammo. Hardly any in the left barrel, second shots on game had seldom been required.

I've owned some, and it's frustrating. I wanted to hunt with them, but I couldn't afford to, just in case I did to them like what I did to my new German Wby MK V the first time I hunted with it in 1969. I slipped on a grassy patch of snow as I was taking my last step up onto a butte, sat down on it, and slid six feet down the steep side.

I got to hold a few and even shot some that had been hunted previously, but I always got cold feet and sold them before I defaced them on a hunt.

This double rifle was one of those. It was made about 1915 for Crown Prince Frederich Wilhelm, son of Kaiser Wilhelm. Short on funds, I was forced to sell it. It was unique in many ways, one being chambered in rimless 8X57IR (rimless .318 diameter).

I can't afford to own things like this very long, and have to let someone who can get them. It's eye opening to see them in my hands, even for a relatively short while. I kept this a couple years and even took it along on a deer hunt one time.

 

[JDeere]

Life is short so if you can afford it and really want something go for it. Of course a little common sense goes a long way as well...

 

[Mosin77]

Yeah but that's not what you said. What you said was:


As if the attitude is, "what's an other million dollars".

I guarantee you price matters. As I said, you don't get to that point by being idiotic with your money.

Nobody’s a fool, but there are people who have so much money, that an extra million just doesn’t really matter. How do you put a price on having “the finest in the world?” What was an appropriate price for this in 2019 and what’s an appropriate price now? How many engravers or barrel regulators of that quality are still practicing vs a few years ago, or vs. tomorrow? What if I were able to contract with some world class craftsmen and make a rifle that was a cut above this one, for a production cost of a mere $191,000? How much could the Mosin77 “Best” fetch on the market vs a Purdey?

My point is that past a certain level, the numbers begin to reflect intangibles. A traditional customer of the firm may not care about the brand one iota. But another customer may buy the gun only because he heard it was best or most exclusive, or most expensive. And brands who want to survive, no matter how traditional, find it best to appeal to newer clientele, because the rolls of storied British gun making firms of the highest quality which are no more, are long. To this end, the concept of Veblen goods definitely applies. A LV handbag probably costs $55 to make and gets retailed for $2900. An Hermes might cost $20,000, and probably only costs a few hundred to make. And if someone is lucky enough to be deemed special enough, to purchase that bag from Hermes, that’s the status symbol -the customer doesn’t care if it’s $20k or even more. They’re buying it to show their elite status, not because the bag is really so much better in quality. (Don’t get me wrong, they’re nice, but you could pay a craftsman to make one nicer, for a lot less.) The value is in the name and the ability to purchase the item.

 

[Hookeye]

Makes more sense to me than buying some million dollar plus home in a subdivision.

 

[CraigC]

Nobody’s a fool, but there are people who have so much money, that an extra million just doesn’t really matter. How do you put a price on having “the finest in the world?” What was an appropriate price for this in 2019 and what’s an appropriate price now? How many engravers or barrel regulators of that quality are still practicing vs a few years ago, or vs. tomorrow? What if I were able to contract with some world class craftsmen and make a rifle that was a cut above this one, for a production cost of a mere $191,000? How much could the Mosin77 “Best” fetch on the market vs a Purdey?

My point is that past a certain level, the numbers begin to reflect intangibles. A traditional customer of the firm may not care about the brand one iota. But another customer may buy the gun only because he heard it was best or most exclusive, or most expensive. And brands who want to survive, no matter how traditional, find it best to appeal to newer clientele, because the rolls of storied British gun making firms of the highest quality which are no more, are long. To this end, the concept of Veblen goods definitely applies. A LV handbag probably costs $55 to make and gets retailed for $2900. An Hermes might cost $20,000, and probably only costs a few hundred to make. And if someone is lucky enough to be deemed special enough, to purchase that bag from Hermes, that’s the status symbol -the customer doesn’t care if it’s $20k or even more. They’re buying it to show their elite status, not because the bag is really so much better in quality. (Don’t get me wrong, they’re nice, but you could pay a craftsman to make one nicer, for a lot less.) The value is in the name and the ability to purchase the item.

I can tell you right now it costs a lot more than that to make those bags. I can also tell you that if I had to make a handbag like that, it would cost MORE than $2900.

Yes, you are no doubt paying for the privilege of owning them but that was not the implication of your post. The implication was that if a person is able to pay a million dollars for something, they would also pay double for the same thing without a second thought. That may be true of some billionaires but for most wealthy people who earned their money, it is not. Let's just reduce the scale and take off a few zeroes. Let's say there's a gun I really want and it costs $1000. I'm not going to pay double what it's worth, just to have it. Sure, if I can throw $1000 at something, I can just as easily throw $2000 at it but I'm not going to frivolously spend it like that. Are you? Of course not. As I said, people don't get to be millionaires by throwing money away. They got to that point by being careful and spending their money wisely. In fact, it's the people with the least of it that are the most likely to spend it on foolishness. I can give you tons of examples of that happening. It's the reason why most lottery winners are broke in only a few years.

 

[redneck2]

I knew of another, friend of a friend, from Texas that had multiple oil wells on his property. Back when oil was $10 a barrel he was making $50,000 a day. It would be 8x that today.

At that time he had over 800 guns, some as nice as this one. All relative.

 

[jmorris]

I'd have rooms full of them before I'd blow 450 million on an old painting...

Salvator Mundi (Leonardo) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sage5907]

I know the man who owns this rifle here in Oklahoma and I have had the pleasure of holding it in my hands and if my memory serves me right I held it in the late 1980's. I asked George in April a year ago if he still had the rifle and he said he did. My wife and I watch the movie Out of Africa about once each year to bring back the memory. It's a Holland & Holland double rifle in 500/465 Nitro. Everything is for sale but It would take a big offer to buy this one.

 

[mm93]

I hunt with my old 1800's rifles, and most are in the $3k-$6k range of value. Certainly not $325k, but still not cheap guns. But I'm careful when I hunt with them, and I always take a backup just in case I wake up and it's ugly weather outside. I wont abuse them intentionally, but I love taking them out for deer or elk hunting.
I've taken a couple mule deer bucks with my engraved Hepburn.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I know the man who owns this rifle here in Oklahoma and I have had the pleasure of holding it in my hands and if my memory serves me right I held it in the late 1980's. View attachment 1206941I asked George in April a year ago if he still had the rifle and he said he did. My wife and I watch the movie Out of Africa about once each year to bring back the memory. It's a Holland & Holland double rifle in 500/465 Nitro. Everything is for sale but It would take a big offer to buy this one.

What is up with thaT weird reverse grip? I can promise you that you want a firm grip on the forend when shooting a heavy double.

 

[H&Hhunter]

There is a huge point that’s been missed in this thread. That is the investment value and asset appreciation of the right firearm. If you’d have bought all the high quality British doubles you could have 40 years ago and stored them. You’d have handily beaten the stock market in valuation of those rifles.

I think that particular Purdy is way over priced but if you know what you’re doing you can make very good money on the right rifles over time.

 

[Jim Watson]

What is up with tha weird reverse grip? I can promise you that you want a firm grip on the forend when shooting a heavy double.

It's from a movie, isn't it? It just has to look Kewl and blanks don't kick much anyhow.

ETA
Now I think about it, you aren't going to find .500-.465 blanks at the hardware store. Somebody had to load them on special order.

 

[H&Hhunter]

It's from a movie, isn't it? It just has to look Kewl and blanks don't kick much anyhow.

100% correct, it’s just amazing how hollyweird can distort anything and everything in the name of art.

 

[CraigC]

I don't understand the "reverse grip" reference.

 

[sage5907]

I don't understand the "reverse grip" reference.

I agree. I think his thumb is on the left side of the barrel. Why he wrapped his fingers back under the forearm is strange. Maybe the photographer didn't like the look and told him to hide his fingers.

 

[lysanderxiii]

What is up with thaT weird reverse grip? I can promise you that you want a firm grip on the forend when shooting a heavy double.

What is so "weird" about it?

There isn't much stock to grip on those things.

 

[Jim Watson]

There isn't much stock to grip on those things.

I don't know what a pukka sahib does with an express rifle, but he swings his game gun with his off hand way out front, even on the barrels ahead of the splinter forearm. To the point that he may well have a leather hand guard clipped to the barrels for when the shooting gets hot. I have seen 3-gunners with a straight left arm, too.

Or you may get the American modification of a beavertail foreend.
Sad story, I saw a Heym double with beavertail on display at SHOT. Attendant staffers were aghast, something had chipped the thin edge of the beavertail where it wrapped around the barrel. Looked to me like it had broken along the burl wood grain there.

 

[Robert]

What is so "weird" about it?

There isn't much stock to grip on those things.

You do not grip the wood. You grip the entire forend including the barrels. If you try to pinch the forend on even a moderately powerful medium or big bore rifle you will find it has left the chat once the trigger is pulled. It will land somewhere behind you.

You wrap your hand all the way up to and as far around the barrels as possible leaving just enough room for a sight picture. And with that solid grip you pull it back firm into the shoulder. These things are not your average rifle and you cannot hold them like a 30-06. Unless you want to bounce it off your face.

I've shot a 9.3x74R and 470NE double rifle. That little 9.3 is one of my favorite rifles I've ever shot. The 470 gave me a headache after 10 or 15 rounds. Yes, the barrels get hot, so you wear a glove.

 

[H&Hhunter]

You do not grip the wood. You grip the entire forend including the barrels. If you try to pinch the forend on even a moderately powerful medium or big bore rifle you will find it has left the chat once the trigger is pulled. It will land somewhere behind you.

You wrap your hand all the way up to and as far around the barrels as possible leaving just enough room for a sight picture. And with that solid grip you pull it back firm into the shoulder. These things are not your average rifle and you cannot hold them like a 30-06. Unless you want to bounce it off your face.

I've shot a 9.3x74R and 470NE double rifle. That little 9.3 is one of my favorite rifles I've ever shot. The 470 gave me a headache after 10 or 15 rounds. Yes, the barrels get hot, so you wear a glove.

This ^^^ Bazinga.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I don't understand the "reverse grip" reference.

I might be seeing it wrong but it looks like he’s got his hand turned in a really weird way. It could just be the camera angle.

In any case what Robert said is spot on. When shooting a double with a splinter forend you wrap your fingers and thumb around the barrels for control. If you try and “pinch” the forend you can’t properly control the rifle in recoil and it’s a great way to have it twist out of your hand. More than one high dollar double has been dropped over that little mistake.

I’ve done a fair piece of hunting and shooting with a splinter forend heavy double rifle. There is a technique to shooting them with control and accuracy.

 

[CraigC]

I understand all that but I think it's the sling obscuring his hand that makes it look weird. Nothing I could make fit the "reverse grip" reference. I think he's just casually holding it like it's a boltgun that ain't a .500. I mean, I don't know how savvy Redford is but he is an actor, I'm surprised he doesn't have his right eye closed.