Help me understand why 9mm is better than 38 special

[nachosgrande]

All things being equal (bullet weight, manufacturer, etc) why is the 9mm ballistically superior to the 38 special? The 38 special with 125 grain bullet is essentially the same bullet with more powder behind it, so how can it be so far behind the 9mm in terms of velocity and muzzle energy?

 

[Lightninstrike]

IBTL. Oh lord, another "which round is better" thread. I'm headed for the foxhole.

 

[nachosgrande]

Not looking for a debate, just a scientific explanation. You can't really debate it because the ballistic numbers speak for themselves. It just doesn't make any sense to me why and I was hoping someone could explain it.

 

[NG VI]

The longer case of the .38 Special was needed for the black powder it was originally designed around. Nowadays it has an awful lot of air in it compared to the 9mm, and also operates at around half the pressure of the 9mm. 9mm is basically optimized for the lighter 115-124 grain bullets, and at the operating pressures of the .38, it can't keep up with the 9mm. It does push heavier bullets better than the 9mm though, which loses out on a lot of needed case volume for propellant when you load it with bullets over 147 grain.

 

[nachosgrande]

^^^^^

Just the answer I was looking for, thank you. Hopefully you can answer one more. Since the cartridge is filled with air, why do I pay $10 more per 100 of WWB than I do for 9mm?

 

[ArmedBear]

Brass costs more than air?

9mm brass is probably produced in larger quantities, too, since it's a very common cartridge worldwide.

.38 Special is a wonderful round for reloading, though. What are you doing with all that once-fired Winchester brass? I hope you're not just throwing it away!

 

[nachosgrande]

"What are you doing with all that once-fired Winchester brass? I hope you're not just throwing it away!"

There's always somebody in the next lane willing to take it off my hands. I'd actually love to learn reloading, not just for the cost savings, but to have that skill and acquire hands on knowledge of the ammunition I'm shooting. Just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[Mr. T]

Cost of .38 special to 9mm

First off I would like to say this is my opinion and not based on any fact that I possess or know of; I believe the 9mm is cheaper than the .38 special due to the simple fact of Volume. There are more 9mm rounds being produced and used in the market place than there are .38 special. The 9mm round is more of a "global" round, where the .38 special is more of a "national" round. NATO based it's sidearm around the 9mm as well as many police organizations around the world. The civilian market also has many more 9mm handgun rounds being used than any other because of lower recoil and the lower cost of the round as well. I would also point out the comparison of the cost of the 5.56 round and even the .308 round compared to the 30.06 or the .300 win mag or the .338 win or Lapua rounds as an example to ponder. Once the military and or NATO adopts a particular "current use" round it seems to me to that the volume of production goes up for that particular round and thus the prices tend to drop. The .38 special round, one previously favored by police has been replaced by other, more effective rounds and thus the volume of production has decreased and thus the common usage of that round subsequently decreases as well. However, the .38 special in it's own right has not gone the way of the dodo, because it is still used a fair amount by civilians for self defense or target practice, because many handguns out there loaded for this particular caliber are designed for conceal carry and to be honest it can still do the job it was designed for albeit there are other more effective rounds in existence. Just my two cents worth.

 

[ArmedBear]

I started rather recently.

Well, that's not exactly accurate: I learned on black powder guns including revolvers. You reload every time you shoot a round (except that there's no brass to clean and resize).

And I've reloaded shotshells for a while.

I just started reloading brass regularly. It's fun and intrinsically rewarding. I've learned a lot about shooting and how things really work, and I can shoot my .44 Magnum, both because I can load it to my liking, and because it doesn't keep me from making the house payment.

 

[AK103K]

Help me understand why 9mm is better than 38 special

This is a no brainer. 17-20 rounds in the gun vs 5-8.

Not to mention almost 357MAG power out of +P+ 9mm.

 

[NG VI]

9mm brass is probably produced in larger quantities, too, since it's a very common cartridge worldwide.

That's what I believe is the reason as well.

 

[Mr. T]

Dear NG VI

I saw your response, and I just wanted to ask a question to a quote you have posted in your reply:

"The 2nd amendment is a right only if you use a gun to defend your state. nothing in there about self defence whatsoever. That's why all gun control laws are legal."

Isn't my property or even my person considered part of the "State", hence defense of either would be considered defence of the "State"?

 

[007BondJamesBond007]

From Hornady

38 Spcl 110 gr FTX Critical Defense 90310
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1010/249 940/216 883/191

Barrel Length (inches)
4


38 Spcl +P110 gr FTX Critical Defense 90311
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1090/290 997/243 930/211

Barrel Length (inches)
4

38 Special, 125 gr. JHP/XTP 90322
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
900/225 856/203 817/185

Barrel Length (inches)
4"

38 Special, 158 gr. JHP/XTP 90362
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
800/199 765/183 735/168

Barrel Length (inches)
4

9MM Luger, 115 gr. JHP/XTP 90252
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1155/341 1047/280 971/241

Barrel Length (inches)
4"

9MM Luger 115 gr FTX Critical Defense 90250
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1140/332 1030/271 954/232

Barrel Length (inches)

9MM Luger, 124 gr. JHP/XTP 90242
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1110/339 1030/292 971/259

Barrel Length (inches)
4"

9MM Luger, 147 gr. JHP/XTP 90282
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
975/310 935/285 899/264

Barrel Length (inches)
4

 

[007BondJamesBond007]

From Hornady

38 Spcl 110 gr FTX Critical Defense 90310
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1010/249 940/216 883/191

Barrel Length (inches)
4


38 Spcl +P110 gr FTX Critical Defense 90311
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1090/290 997/243 930/211

Barrel Length (inches)
4

38 Special, 125 gr. JHP/XTP 90322
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
900/225 856/203 817/185

Barrel Length (inches)
4"

38 Special, 158 gr. JHP/XTP 90362
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
800/199 765/183 735/168

Barrel Length (inches)
4

9MM Luger, 115 gr. JHP/XTP 90252
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1155/341 1047/280 971/241

Barrel Length (inches)
4"

9MM Luger 115 gr FTX Critical Defense 90250
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1140/332 1030/271 954/232

Barrel Length (inches)

9MM Luger, 124 gr. JHP/XTP 90242
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
1110/339 1030/292 971/259

Barrel Length (inches)
4"

9MM Luger, 147 gr. JHP/XTP 90282
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd
975/310 935/285 899/264

Barrel Length (inches)
4

 

[NG VI]

oh, that's something a dingbat in a totally different forum stated once. Just wanted to let everyone know what sort of brain trust we are up against.

And they are taken as seriously or more seriously than we are in many arenas. Rocky Mountain oysters, but that's the way it is.

 

[d2wing]

Another tidbit is that the .38 was designed back in the days of break action revolvers. It is loaded to much lower pressure for liability reasons in case someone wants to shoot in in an older or cheap weapon. If you have a modern weapon especially a .357 you can shoot +p loads.

 

[catspa]

Perhaps I could help you understand why the .38 is better than the 9mm instead.

1) I have revolvers chambered for it - I have no 9mm semi-autos.

2) A .38 revolver doesn't short-stroke, stovepipe, or fail to feed. When you load .38's in the cylinder, there they are.

3) Flexibility. My revolvers will fire a .38 round with any bullet nose shape, seated flush or way out, any reasonable powder charge, wax, plastic, as long as I can fit it in the cylinder, it'll fire. Also, .357 revolvers will also fire .38's. Can you fire 9mm ammo out of a .40?

4) 6 rounds is plenty enough if you hit what you aim for.

5) .38 rounds fit perfect in the loops of my leather cartridge belt. 9mm rounds always slip through and fall out.

All that said, I'll stand and fight for your right to choose a 9, just now you know why the .38 is better.

Parker, prepared to withstand abuse...

 

[Claude Clay]

dingbats fear the 38
snips hide from 9mm

357 mag for werewolves and
327 fed for their offsprung [silvertips, of course]

whats above this is pretty much how it is.......

 

[Steve C]

why is the 9mm ballistically superior to the 38 special?

The .38 spl operates at a maximum standard industry chamber pressure of 17,000 psi and +P is 18,500 psi. The 9mm operates at a standard industry pressure of 35,000 psi and +P at 38,500 psi.

Chamber pressure limits the amount of velocity attainable from the .38 spl. The case size and volume limits the 9mm to a narrower range of usable bullet weights and velocities.

The .357 magnum which operates at a maximum pressure of 35,000 psi is essentially the magnum version of the .38 spl designed for stronger and generally larger pistols can match or exceed the 9mm due to its larger case volume and similar pressure.

 

[Superlite27]

It would be easier to just buy a .45

That way, you wouldn't have to worry about how effective your bullets are.

 

[searcher451]

You say tomato and I say ... potato, I guess. The bottom line is that both of them will get the job done, and that's all that matters in the long and the short of it. But I would add that if you are a range rat and like to shoot regularly, you'll spend less on 9mm than you will on .38, all else being equal -- and given a fair shot at finding ammo of any stripe available when you go out to buy it these days. Good luck with that.

 

[Deanimator]

Not better, just different.

I like heavy bullets. Try to put a 158gr. bullet in a 9x19mm case, nevermind a 200gr.

 

[Bezoar]

The 9mm round is superior to 38 special in the following reasons.

First, the 9mm is a standard cartridge for NATO. And as a result, nato countries can bumm it off of america and have no issue of it working in their weapons.

Secondly, the 9mm is superior because the semi automatic handgun is not normally able to use a wide range of bullet types and bullet materials, nor a wide range of bullet velocities.
As a result, the 38 special that can fire thousands of rounds of black powder cartridges, wad cutters,lrn, roundball, and high end hollowpoints is just INFERIOR.

Notice that the ability to use almost anything in your gun is "bad"?

 

[20nickels]

The 9mm is the perfect defnsive caliber really. It is lightweight, powerfull with modern HP's and high capacity. Just buy a quality firearm to eat them.
That being said I do not own a 9mm, but have a few .38's/.357's. I am not a police officer and have zero possiblilty of getting into drwn out firefights with a polymer sidearm.
The .38 is an extemely versitile round for wilderness carry, target shooting, and personal defense with a huge range of available boolits and boolit weights. 9mm can easily be duplicated in a .357 gun as well as powderpuff target wadcutters and nuclear magnum rds. I do not feel undergunned at all with .38 +P. Regular old standard pressure .38's are not my 1st defense choice however.

 

[oneounceload]

The 38 special with 125 grain bullet is essentially the same bullet with more powder behind it, so how can it be so far behind the 9mm in terms of velocity and muzzle energy?

Your first assumption here is incorrect to start with - in fact they usually have LESS powder behind them....9mm is loaded to higher pressures as previously mentioned

The 9 is more efficient in a smaller package with equivalent bullets