Help me understand why the .41 Mag is better than .44 Mag

[JaxJim]

I'll start off by admitting: I like the .44 Mag. I have hunted using the round for many years and have a number of firearms: revolvers, Contender barrel and a rifle chambered in it. I reload rounds all the way from powder puf to fire breathing loadings depending on the application at hand. I have made many, many one shot kills on hogs and deer at reasonable ranges and have come to trust the cartridge for purposes I've used it for.

I hear so much good about the .41 and I've tried to justify buying one. I can't get past that it's only .019" smaller, and the velocity seems to be a bit higher which should give a flatter trajectory down range. But is it really that much better?

I'm not trolling, I promise. I'm trying to learn a thing or two from folks who actually use, and like the .41 Mag. Edjumicate me!

 

[BCRider]

First of I'm not a hunter. So much of this is based on reading threads about handgun hunting.

The bullet is "only" .019 smaller but what about the commonly used bullet weights for hunting? A slower but heavier bullet will push it's way through a lot compared to a lighter but faster bullet. At least that's what I've seen. So you'd want to compare not only the diameters but also the bullet weight options.

Second is that if the BC isn't as good due to the lighter weight vs diameter then while it may leave faster what about at the other end where the target is living? At what range will the .41 Mag fall below the velocity or hitting power of the .44Mag? If it will only occur well out beyond where you're comfortable hunting with a handgun then maybe the advantage is with the .41 after all.

It seems I've mostly asked questions..... But if the answers will help you it may be worth doing the homework to find them.

 

[shootniron]

It is not better.

If it were better, it would not have been relegated to it's present place of relative obscurity.

 

[Snowbandit]

The BC is a tiny bit better giving a slightly flatter trajectory which is of doubtful usefulness to the average hunter. The edge for everything else goes to the .44 Magnum. I got rid of my 41 years ago.

 

[jmr40]

A slower but heavier bullet will push it's way through a lot compared to a lighter but faster bullet.

Maybe, maybe not. If both bullets are the same diameter, then yes. A bullets sectional density plays a big part in penetration. A longer bullet will usually penetrate more everything being equal. Smaller diameter bullets temd to be longer. Larger diameter bullets have to displace more of whatever they need to penetrate and need to be much heavier to get the same length.

In real world terms the 2 are much closer in performance than many think. The 41 does offer some theoretical advantages. It will be flatter shooting, but at the ranges I'm going to be shooting a handgun it isn't enough to worry about. Some make the argument that a 41 can be hot loaded safer than a 44 because there is more metal left in the cylinders because of the slightly smaller case. Maybe, but I'm not one to push the limits on stuff like that.

A 41 might give a slight advantage in penetration, but once again they are very close and the 44 will make a very slightly larger hole so it is about a wash. Performance wise they are almost a tie. I'd still give the 44 a very slight advantage.

I've owned 41's in the past. Years ago ammo prices were an issue and this was before I reloaded, so I sold off my 41's. At that time 41 ammo was much, more expensive and harder to find. Today that is not as big of a concern, but 44 ammo is still a little easier to find and still a little cheaper. There is also a much greater variety of loads available to a 44 owner, even if you reload.

If someone just wants to be different, and especially if you reload I think the 41 is a good choice. But not necessarily a better choice.

 

[skidder]

I think it's lack of popularity is due to the fact that it's too close to the 44. I think if it were a 40 mag it would have found its niche and would have enjoyed the company of those who shoot the 10mm and 40 s&w. Could you imagine a 40 mag revolver that shot 40 specials and would take a moon clip with 10mm and 40 s&w . There I go dreaming out loud . Santa I'm waiting.....

 

[GunTotinAmerican]

Having both calibers, I would not say either is better than the other at any task at hand until you move to the heavy bullets(above 265gr). I love the .41 in my 4 5/8 RBH, I probably shoot it more than anything. Another thing to consider is cylinder length, some .41's will not accept true Kieth style bullets.

GTA

 

[Beagle-zebub]

Any accuracy difference? And if so, why?

 

[buck460XVR]

If someone just wants to be different, and especially if you reload I think the 41 is a good choice. But not necessarily a better choice.

Kinda my feelings on it. Around here not only is ammo hard to find, but it's pretty rare to find a firearm in stock at the LGSs. Sure they are willing to special order them, but not having them on hand for the casual looker to handle, IMHO, is one reason they are still pretty obscure to the average Joe looking at handguns. It is a good cartridge and there are great guns out there chambered for it. It also has a very loyal following of those that feel it is the best there is. But it is a small following and it appears it will always be just that. Again, this is just what those that want something different are after.

 

[scramasax]

I've found that on average I am more accurate with my .41s than the .44s and they are sbujectivley more comptfortable to shoot. This is shooting comparable balistic loads in the same model guns. It was originally designed as a law enforcement round so hunting loads are just a byproduct. I'ii stay with my .41s if for no other reason that Elmer Keith stated it was a good "east of the Miss. caliber.

Been thinking of wildcatting a Marlin .444 to a .441 just for S&G.

Cheers,

ts

 

[jdh]

It is not better.

If it were better, it would not have been relegated to it's present place of relative obscurity.

Utter nonsense! Had Harry Callahan used the 41 instead of the 44 this conversation would have been Convince me the 44 magnum is better than the 41 magnum and why I should buy it instead of the proven 41!

 

[336A]

I've never shot a .44 mag from a a handgun so I can't compare it to my .41 mag. I like the .41mag due to it being a little different since everyone has a .44 mag. The .41 mag is more economical in the sense that it uses powder more effeciently to get magnum performance. Another plus is that the .41 mag has always been .410", more often than not the barrel and cylinder dimensions are spot on the same can't be said of .44's. I think this has a lot to do with the .41's reputation for fine accuracy.

 

[JaxJim]

This is excellent! I love discussions like this. Kinda feel like I'm at the hunt club, sitting around the fire, knocking back a brew or two and chatting about a topic.

I've had better luck using heavier projectiles against hogs. Seems the weight "thumps" them harder. The lighter and faster jacketed stuff seems to break up, at least seem to shed the jacket.

With the .41: did any gun manufacturer ever try stuffing one more round in a cylinder? 7 shots in the size of a six shooter much like they are stuffing 6 rounds of .327 in a 5 shot J-Frame? Doesn't seem it would fit, but conceptually it might have been a good idea. I could see for self defense that one extra round could be advantageous.

Maybe the real comparison I should be making is between the .41 and .357 since both are intended for SD purposes.

Again: thanks for everyone's input. I've learned some things in this thread.

 

[CraigC]

Help me understand why the .41 Mag is better than .44 Mag

It's not. It's different and fewer people use it and that's enough to make some folks like it. I don't dislike it, I just haven't taken the plunge yet.

Utter nonsense! Had Harry Callahan used the 41 instead of the 44 this conversation would have been Convince me the 44 magnum is better than the 41 magnum and why I should buy it instead of the proven 41!

The .44 had cemented itself in the hearts and minds of sportsmen looooooong before Dirty Harry came along. Know your history.

...did any gun manufacturer ever try stuffing one more round in a cylinder?

Not enough room.

Another plus is that the .41 mag has always been .410", more often than not the barrel and cylinder dimensions are spot on the same can't be said of .44's.

I have never found this to be the case at all.

 

[Loosedhorse]

double post

 

[Loosedhorse]

Depends on what you want.

Because of the the equal case length, both can throw a bullet with the same sectional density at about the same speed. The .41 will allow you to do that with a bit less recoil, and the .44 with a bit wider bullet.

I think the fixed sight, 4-inch 41 Mag is the ideal cross-over gun: great for camping/trail "protection" with heavy loads (anywhere except brown bear territory), and great for SD with slower loads.

Well, at least it would be if anyone still made the old 900 fps "police loads" for the .41--but with HPs this time!

 

[336A]

Craig you may not have encountered them but .44 revolvers with .428"-.429" bores and cylinder throats of up to .432" are not uncommon.

 

[DM~]

Early on, i owned both at the same time... I found the 44 mag. to have HEAVY recoil, and i found the 41 mag. to have HEAVY recoil, so that issue was put aside right away.

I found them to be quite equil in many ways, but the 44 did penetrate a bit better, and as i wanted a handgun for hunting, i went with the 44.

Over the years i've revisited the 41 a few times, but i'm convinced the 44 has a "slight" edge over the 41, so "for me", i made the right decision and i'm happy with my choise.

DM

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
Most of all what you read as to which is better amounts to playing with numbers. I prefer the caliber .41 mag. I owned the 44 mag before I ever had seen a 41. They are so close together ballisticly there just is not enough to really argue about. Reason I sold my 44 mags was I decided to settle on 41 mag and 45 Colt. There was just no need for that in between 44 caliber.
When it comes to revolvers generally the 41 revolvers are made in smaller numbers so there may be a better chance of getting a near perfect 41 than a 44. Rugers especially used to be near perfect in 41. But the last one I bought was not all that great and needed the cylinder reamed to have all 6 throats equal diameter.
So if I was going to choose which one.. I would be just as happy with the 44. But I chose the 41mag and 45 Colt and right happy I did so.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I've never owned one, but a savvy .45 gunsmith from Denver, Colorado, Ikey Starks, used to swear by a long barreled S&W .41 Mmag when I had contact with him back in the 70's & 80's. He got to hunt big game regularly in the Rockies, and that was his preferred gun and round due to accuracy, flat shooting, and successful results with the ammo he used. I always regarded the round more highly after his accounts with it on game.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Any accuracy difference? And if so, why?

Differences between individual guns will FAR outweigh any difference in accuracy differences of the cartridge design.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

(edited for brevity)
Second is that if the BC isn't as good due to the lighter weight vs diameter then while it may leave faster what about at the other end where the target is living? At what range will the .41 Mag fall below the velocity or hitting power of the .44Mag? If it will only occur well out beyond where you're comfortable hunting with a handgun then maybe the advantage is with the .41 after all.

It seems I've mostly asked questions..... But if the answers will help you it may be worth doing the homework to find them.

Between a 41 and a 44 shooting the same WEIGHT bullet at the same muzzle velocity, at distance the 41 will retain more velocity. Between a 41 and a 44 with the same aerodynamics the 44 will be slower at the muzzle than the 41 and from there the exterior ballistics get a bit more confusing.

I have read a quote from an experienced hunter whose name I cannot remember, though the quote sticks. "Any animal hit with a .41 will SWEAR it was a 44."

If you believe the claim that the 45 Colt loaded to 44 mag power levels gives less felt recoil, the 44 SHOULD give less recoil than the 41 both loaded to the same power levels. I am still on the fence about that. The same pundits who claim at 41/44 the smaller caliber has less recoil also claim that at 44/45, the larger caliber has less recoil. Go figure and draw your own conclusions.

As soon as I can figure out a way to objectively measure recoil, I am going to run an experiment between three Super Redhawks, 44 Mag, 454 Casull and 480 Ruger. If anyone in Alaska has a .41 Mag SRH to toss into the mix, PM me.

If you don't handload, consider that there is a greater variety of loaded ammunition available in 44. If you do handload, and especially if you cast, you are much freer to choose whichever you like. Just be aware that if you find yourself short of ammunition and walk into a typical store, you are more likely to find 44 than 41.

It has been said, truly, that the 41 is a handloader's cartridge. But in reality, both are ideal for a handloader. But the 41 requires it and the 44 just highly recommends it.

These cartridges are like wives. If you treat them right (load appropriate ammo) they will treat you right in return and neither can be said to be "better" than the other. Except in the heavyweights. (Apologies, ladies, the analogy is not intended to extend this far.) 44 can throw a heavier bullet. But just remember, the 45 Colt/454 Casull/460 S&W gets heavier still and the 475/480 class, and the 500 class is top of the (legal without a class III license) heap.

OK, I have officially gone overboard. Signing off now.

Lost Sheep

 

[jdh]

Craig,
The 44 being about 10 years older does not mean it was cemented in anyone's heart. Model 29 sales could hardly have been called stellar at any point up to the time of the Dirty Harry movies. It was, much as the 41 is considered now, the gun of a dedicated group of handgun shooters/hunters but was considered to powerful and unmanageable for police/self defense use. After the movies came out gun shops could not keep them on the shelves because everyone had to have Dirty Harry's gun. Many of which were soon sold or traded back in with the original box of ammo with only a few cartridges missing at a considerable loss. Had Harry used the 41 as Keith and Jordan had intended for it to be, a more manageable than the 44 while more effective than the 357 revolver for police service, Model 29 sales would have continued at their lackluster pace and Model 57/58 would have been flying out of the display cases as fast as S&W could have made them.

The only place a 44 is superior to the 41 is when heavy bullets are called for. While there are heavier bullets for the 41 the trajectory begins to suffer over about 250. The 44 can be had with bullets up to 350 gr. It takes a great deal of hold over to hit at ranges greater then about 75 yards with them. At normal for caliber bullets weights the performance of the two is practically indistinguishable. The 41 is a little more efficient, the 44 ever so slightly more powerful (1200 versus 1160 ft-lb).
Don't let your bias overwhelm your view of the truth.

 

[shootniron]

Utter nonsense! Had Harry Callahan used the 41 instead of the 44 this conversation would have been Convince me the 44 magnum is better than the 41 magnum and why I should buy it instead of the proven 41!

I don't have to prove anything to you...the market has spoken. YOU can buy whatever you want...but YOU cannot logically dispute that the market has made very clear which it prefers and that generally does not mean that a caliber plays second fiddle to another so people choose to buy the lesser. As far as Dirty Harry goes, that was 40yrs ago and he knew it was the best then, also...most of the folks buying guns today were not even born then. It is one thing to have a preference, but it is something else to be in denial about what has actually taken place.

 

[Walkalong]

I like them both.

The .44 has better ammo/component selection because it is more popular,but die hard .41 Mag fans will always like the .41 better.