Help me understand why the .41 Mag is better than .44 Mag

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Actually it was the .401 PowerMag that came the closest to commercial success where .400" magnums are concerned.
I didn't say it wasn't, only that the Colt cartridge probably would've had the best chance. The PowerMag would've failed regardless, based on looks alone. As it was only ever chambered in the hideous Herter's revolvers. The Colt cartridge would've preceded the .357Mag and would've been chambered in the lovely New Service and Single Action Army revolvers.
 
I have both. What little difference in performance there might be between the two is far and away offset by the high price and scarcity of .41 mag ammo.

I reload so I shoot a ton of both calibers. Even in the reloading department it's easier to work with the .44 as there are a greater variety of components and far more data to work with.

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE my .41 mag...but if I wasn't a reloader I'd never even consider it because ammo costs so much and can be difficult to find.
 
There is only 0.19" difference in diamiter between the two cartridges. Not enough to make any real difference.
 
In 1873, Winchester introduced its new lever action rifle in .44-40. The same year, Colt introduced its new revolver in .45Colt. Very shortly, the 1873 Winchester and the Colt Peacemaker were both also available chambered for the other manufacturer's cartridge. The reason: so any hunter, lawman or cowboy could buy a new pistol to match his existing rifle (or vice versa) and thereafter only need to carry one supply of ammunition for both weapons.

Today, 135+ years later, a shooter can still do the same. A handgun chambered for any of the modern rimfire cartridges, any of the most common semi-auto rounds (9mm, .45ACP, .40S&W and .30Carbine come to mind) or any of the following rimmed revolver rounds - .38Spl/.357Mag, .44Spl/.44Mag, .45Colt, .454Casull, or .480Ruger - can be matched with a suitable rifle.

In fact, directly on topic, I think the .44 Magnum is the only centre-fire revolver cartridge to have been used to date in a semi-auto rifle. And even though Ruger hasn't made its .44 Carbine for several years, I believe anyone wanting a semi-auto brush gun to match his .44 Magnum revolver can still find a used one reasonably easily today.

By contrast, the only 'serious' handgun cartridge that has never had any rifle of any kind commercially chambered for it is ... the .41 Magnum.

And as far as I'm concerned (and obviously a huge number of other users) that is reason enough for the .41 Magnum to have died on the vine as anything but an oddball handloader special.
 
...the 1873 Winchester and the Colt Peacemaker were both also available chambered for the other manufacturer's cartridge.
The Colt was available in Winchester's cartridge but not vice versa. .45Colt leverguns are a modern invention, due to the tiny rim and the issues it would've created with the folded head brass of the 1880's.
 
The Colt was available in Winchester's cartridge but not vice versa. .45Colt leverguns are a modern invention, due to the tiny rim and the issues it would've created with the folded head brass of the 1880's.
You're right; my mistake - people could buy new pistols to match their existing rifles' calibre but not vice versa. But I think Colt sold an awful lot of pistols chambered in .44-40 as a result!
 
Well, okay, it just ain't entirely so -- just mostly.

Uhmm, you did notice that that Marlin 1894 FG you linked to in that gunshop catalog is listed as 'currently unavailable', didn't you?

I couldn't understand how I could have overlooked such an obvious .41 Magnum rifle as a current production Marlin lever action, so I checked the model history. The fact is, after being introduced in 2003 by Marlin, the .41 Magnum 1894FG became 'currently unavailable' in 2004 - Marlin's production run only lasted a year.

Before making the 1894FG in 2003, Marlin did 2 other runs of .41 Magnum lever actions. And again, they were short runs of few guns. The first was for 4 years between 1985 and 1989 when the 1894S was available in that calibre. The second was a decade later in 1999 when a special limited edition model was produced just for Davidson's.

According to the moaning on the Marlin owners' forum, on the rare occasions when any of them show up for sale at places like gunbrokers.com, the prices start well north of $1,000.00 - recently 1894FGs have fetched $1300-$1500 there.

Contrast that with the availability and cost of similar rifles by Marlin and many other makers in any of the other pistol calibres - including .44 Magnum - and my main point still stands.;)
 
screwtape, you like to argue don't you?..lol.. Marlin has made 41mag Lever guns in the 1895 and 1894 off and on for years. A quick search with ammosearch found me lots of places to buy 41. Even found loaded 41 special that will work in my revolvers. The cartridge (41mag) obviously isn't for every one. If your after something in a factory load then not a lot out there, as a reloadable cartridge, not a problem. The ammo whether factory or from reloaders is out there, you just have to look and there are plenty of loads to keep most people happy. One local shop near me has I think all of S&W's 41 mag models in stock.. Makes it worth the drive when in the mood to buy.
 
I have noticed two firearm related topics of late which cause the participants on both sides to display extreme closed mindedness and an almost religious fanaticism. The 41/44 mag debate and the debate on the necessity of safeties on modern striker fired semi automatic handguns. In light of this I have decided to just go straight to the creationism versus evolution discussions and let you fanatics on both sides these two issues have at it.
 
I have noticed two firearm related topics of late which cause the participants on both sides to display extreme closed mindedness and an almost religious fanaticism. The 41/44 mag debate and the debate on the necessity of safeties on modern striker fired semi automatic handguns. In light of this I have decided to just go straight to the creationism versus evolution discussions and let you fanatics on both sides these two issues have at it.
Dude...what if they made a 41 mag striker fired semi auto with no manual safety?
 
I thought Marlin made one run of .41Mag 1894's? And that the only pistol cartridge long action was a .44Mag 336???
 
The .41 Mag was pushed by Bill Jordan and Elmer Kieth. Their idea was a police revolver that was more powerful than a .357 and not so heavy and cumbersome as a .44 Magnum.

The .41 Mag did not quite make the grade. It was still too heavy and hard-kicking for the average street cop -- and police began converting to automatics soon after it was introduced.

If I were looking for a revolver more powerful than the .357 Mag, I'd look at either a .44 Mag or a hot-loaded .45 Colt rather than a .41 Mag.
 
There's nothing wrong with a .41 Mag from a ballistic standpoint - it hits noticeably harder than a .357, and is almost as powerful as the .44 Mag.

And that's really the reason it never caught on - it's almost a .44 mag, and doesn't really offer anything that the (slightly) larger round doesn't.
 
Is a 158 grain .357 at 1,300 fps better than a 170 grain .41 at 1100 fps?
No, but if you're shooting a human, a 125gr JHP .357 is probably better than a .41. The .41 has the same problem that a .44 mag has. It penetrates too much and recoil is excessive. The .357 load most of the time stays in the person. But it also penetrates car bodies and tires. The .41 revolvers also are way too heavy (heavier than .44 mags, actually). If there was a deficiency in the .357 or the .44 magnums, then a .41 might fill the gap. But right now there is no gap, and there never has been, and that's the problem with the .41.

Having said that, the .41 will pretty much do what a .44 mag will. So if you get a good price on one and want to reload, go for it! Again, if one could find a deficiency in the .357 or the .44, the .41 would certainly fill the gap. But there isn't a gap and there never has been.

No disrespect intended. Just a difference of opinion. And a little humor.
No offense taken.

The .41 Mag was pushed by Bill Jordan and Elmer Kieth. Their idea was a police revolver that was more powerful than a .357 and not so heavy and cumbersome as a .44 Magnum.
I wonder why they thought the .357 was deficient? I know that the initial loads of 158gr JHPs weren't terribly effective, but the 125gr JHPs took care of the problem. I had a lot of respect for Bill Jordan, but not so much for Elmer Keith.
 
The .41 was originally marketed to be a "better" police service revolver. The problem was that almost everywhere it was issued the cops were used to lugging a K frame S&W on their duty belt and saw no reason to lug the extra weight. (those belts do get heavy on a long shift with all of the junk hanging on it) Also a large number of departments stupidly issued the HOT JHP rounds to officers for qual. instead of the reduced power lead rounds. I have fired those original JHP rounds and man they were HOT! Lots of blast and flame. Most of them had never fired a gun with that much power in it. It was just too much for most of them. If you wanted to instill flinching in a shooter make them shoot a box of those. They'll flinch. You also had a new trend of hiring more women for patrol duty. You know, the ones that can barely reach the trigger and lean way back away from the gun and take 2 or 3 steps back on every shot? It was WAY too much for just about all of them. So they went back to their little .357s. Personally I've been handloading for a Model 57 for thirty years and I like it a whole bunch. A 215 to 220 gr. bullet @ 900 fps. feels like a really big .38 Spl from that N frame and knocks things down pretty reliably. Pepper poppers? No problem. Bowling pins? It's outtahere. My favorite revolver for USPSA and pins. But with almost no support from the ammo companies the .41 will probably always be a handloader's specialty item. But I think it was a great idea.
 
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Having said that, the .41 will pretty much do what a .44 mag will.
Except sling a .430" bullet. The .44 can utilize significantly heavier bullets with significantly higher sectional densities and offers a much better selection. The .41Mag tops out at 300gr and that is equivalent to a 330gr .44, which can be loaded 100fps faster. Where the .44 goes all the way up to 355gr and slings those 150fps faster than a .45Colt equivalent. All at standard pressures. If you want to split hairs, the .44 is really the best of the three.
 
Here's my first post on this forum, and what a fun topic to wade into. I am the only guy in my peer group who is partial to the 41. We are all hand loaders, shooters, and hunters. Everyone else prefers 44s. To me, the argument is nothing to do with performance, recoil, or any of the other great arguments made so far. It really doesn't have to do with being different either, though that is indeed fun. For me, it's collectibility. I can feasibly collect an example of every factory produced 41. I could, with the drive and the money, even get every variation in barrel length, finish, etc. In other words, I can collect 41s with the goal of a complete collection. I cannot do that with a 44 collection. There has just been too much produced.

To add to this, I can go get a 44 about anywhere. If I want a rifle, there is a marlin at the pawn shop and a new remlin at the gun store. I can order a smith or find a used one from a buddy. Unless I drum down and say I am only going to collect a specific subset of 44s, I can just go buy one to fit my current fancy. Except for a few current production 41 revolvers (Blackhawks and smith classic series) I have to want a 41 badly to go seek one out.

Right now I have 2 of the 4 runs of 41 marlins, an older model 57 S&W, a Redhawk, a blackhawk, a flattop blackhawk, a desert eagle, and an armi jäger single action. I need the stainless and the cowboy marlins, smiths in the 58, 357ng, 657, a Dan Wesson, a Bisley ruger, a few taurus, a freedom arms, an astra, and the import single action Seville to complete my basic 41 collection. Maybe I can expand from there, especially with smiths, but even so, this is possible. And the thrill of the hunt when I find one of these is great, and is really the crux of my whole argument.

Or I can go buy some effective, available, affordable, ever popular 44 mags that will do everything a 41 will and arguably more.
 
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Jrodcody
You need to check out and join 41 Mag Association a couple pages back in the Revolver thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=599046[/URL]
 
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