help, my sister wants to get a .25acp

[David G.]

Sounds like a job for...

...the Ruger LCP.

 

[Diggers]

I would think she could fit a fair amount of gun in a purse. It really doesn't have to be some tiny framed .380 or .32 (or yeah even a .25 )

Couldn't she get get a .32, .380 or 9mm in a frame size that will fit her hand better AND will still fit nicely in her purse?

It will be much nicer for her to shoot a gun like that then one of those tiny ones. (Will hold more ammo too. )

 

[army_husbandky]

You know, I had the same situation (wasn't my sister, was my wife) but she wanted a handgun, something she could use in the house and take with her on road trips as a glovebox gun, because she even realizes that I will not be around all the time (like right now, sitting in the middle of Iraq on my second deployment), so I got this idea to buy her a revolver, don't have to rack the slide, just point, aim, and pull the trigger. Bought her a Taurus Model 85 Ultra-Lite, needless to say she hates the gun, but she loves my XDm 9mm (sorry, paid $615 for the gun, she can't have it).

Long story short, best thing you can probably do is take her out to the gun range and let her try out some handguns, alot of gun ranges have pistols that you can rent, rent one and try it out. All in all, let her pick the weapon, this will put confidence in her weapon, then the more that she shoots it, the more her confidence will grow if you know what I mean. I would say to be by her side so you can give advice to her about a weapon to help her in her decision, don't make the decision for her, just help her out. In the end, she should make a good choice.

 

[DeepSouth]

Get her a 25 let her get comfortable with it, then start explaining how ineffective it is until she looses faith in it, then she'll want an upgrade and wallah you have won.

If that don't work show her one of the pink Kel-Tec's, she sounds like the kind of girl that would like them, she might be kin to my wife, LOL.

OH yeah, point her to www.corneredcat.com

 

[Ben86]

In my opinion the ruger lcp and kel-tec p3at are some of the most difficult guns to shoot because of their long heavy trigger pulls, almost non-existent sights and tiny diminutive grip that tries to jump from your hands as you shoot. I'm not bashing them, I have the lcp and appreciate it for it's purpose. But, I suggest getting something a little bigger but still small enough for a purse. A glock 26 would be my first recommendation but that will run you about $500. You might want to look into the kel-tec p-11, p-f9 or some of the Bersa Thunder guns. They are around $300. Do her a favor and don't let the caliber drop below .380.

 

[MM60]

Agree - don't let her buy anything in less than .380.

Disagree - the Ruger .380 is small, has short sights, and has a long trigger pull, but the sights are visible and the trigger pull is not heavy at all. I would not want to use the LCP in a combat situation, but I carry it with me every day for SD purposes. It is very light, thin, accurate, and reasonably powerful. Whatever it is that you carry: you're probably going to carry it everywhere you go - all the time, but you're probably not going to actually have to shoot it very much. If I have to choose between a pistol that is comfortable to carry or one that is comfortable to shoot - I'll carry the one that's comfortable to carry.

You might want to suggest to your sister that she look for a nicely-made high-quality handgun. The Kel-Tec P3AT and Ruger LCP are practically the same gun, but the Ruger is much better quality and makes the Kel-Tec look like a toy. I sold my Kel-Tec to buy the Ruger as soon as the LCP was available.

I would definitely not encourage your sister to buy a revolver. A revolver may be marginally simpler to use for the first five or six shots, but if she is ineffective with those - there is probably no chance of her reloading. It would be much much faster and simpler to drop the empty mag, put in a new one, and rack the slide (2 seconds to change mags compared to 15 seconds to reload a cylinder). And if she would carry a revolver with a speed loader, she might as well just carry any compact semi-auto and carry the same number of rounds in one magazine - it would take up the same amount of space and there'd be no reloading involved. Either the Sig P239 or HK USP Compact would be ideal for SD carry in a purse. I personally can't think of any SD situation where a revolver would be better than a semi-auto; large-caliber revolvers are useful against some animals, but small-caliber/small-frame revolvers are outdated and impractical for all purposes as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BHP FAN]

''small-caliber/small-frame revolvers are outdated and impractical for all purposes as far as I'm concerned...''
ROTFLMAO! I'm sure I'm not the only one who has read many an obituary on the demise of the revolver.Didn't happen in the last century,and it ain't gonna happen in this one.

 

[MM60]

BHP FAN, would you want to use a small .38 Special revolver against somebody with a Sig P239 or an H&K USP? What about using a small .38 Special revolver against five big guys who are about to mug you with whatever weapons they might be carrying? If you could remain level-headed, you would have about one shot per mugger until after your 15-second reload. I'd much rather have a semi-auto. Revolvers for SD are outdated because semi-autos are available - unlike during most of the 1800's when revolvers and single-shots were all that was available. I'm not saying that revolvers for SD are completely useless, but they are definitely outdated.

 

[oneounceload]

While the 38 most certainly has merit, I would not rule out 327 Federal, now chambered by both Ruger and S&W. With it, she can shoot 4 similar cartridges from mild to wild or somewhere in between, according to her comfort level.

 

[Grey Morel]

Not quite...

When fired from the same short barrel (2" or so), the .25 ACP with the 50 gr. FMJ projectile will have higher energy and greater penetration than almost all available .22 LR loads. This traditional .25 ACP loading will penetrate around 14"-16" in ordnance gelatin (see brassfetcher.com).

Excuse me Sir, but I AM looking at Brassfetcher.com. And no, I'm not looking at a 6" revolver or a rifle. I'm looking at the 3" Walther P22 test, in which 4 different loading penetrated from 12-16" depending.

The 4 types of .25acp FMJ ammo tested on that same site ranged from 11-16" penetration depending on brand. Hollow points fall short of that, averaging 7-8".

.22LR loads exist that will out penetrate most 25 FMJ loads, and match the penetration of the best, even from a compact handgun. Unles you want to argue that an inch or less of barrel is throwing the results, there is no denying the numbers.

 

[Deanimator]

BHP FAN, would you want to use a small .38 Special revolver against somebody with a Sig P239 or an H&K USP?

Absolutely. Of course I intend to hit as many times as it takes for him to stop being a threat. I don't care how many times he misses.

 

[GRIZ22]

she said she wanted a gun that would hurt someone but not kill them.

Before you suggest different guns you need to get her straightened out on this.

 

[Deanimator]

I would ask her to give me an example where a violent criminal intentionally shot or stabbed somebody so as NOT to kill them. Other than acts of torture where the victim was subsequently murdered, I doubt she can.

 

[.455_Hunter]

.22LR loads exist that will out penetrate most 25 FMJ loads, and match the penetration of the best, even from a compact handgun. Unless you want to argue that an inch or less of barrel is throwing the results, there is no denying the numbers.

I agree with you on one point for sure- the .25 ACP hollow points do not have enough penetration.

The P22's 3.4" barrel is 42% longer than the Beretta's 2.4" barrel- not insignificant in my book.

In identical Beretta 21's, the .25 ACP 50 FMJs will average about 80 fpe, with the .22 LRs averaging about 60 fpe. Not much, but also given the the .25 ACP's more reliable centerfire primer and jacketed round nose projectile for smooth feeding, I would take the .25 ACP over a .22LR in a compact CCW auto any day.

I wish that Brassfetcher's site had results from both .25 and .22 Berettas, that would make the direct comparison much easier.

 

[rmfnla]

To those who prefer a .22 over a .25 because of an inch or two of penetration, keep in mind that the rimless .25 case & jacketed bullet are more conducive to reliable feeding than the .22 (and the case is probably better for extraction as well).

I occasionall slip a Beretta Jetfire (hey, it's good enough for 007! ) into my pocket, expecially if I am dressed lightly. I am fully aware of the .25's power limitations but the gun is very accurate, feeds flawlwsly, and I honestly cannot imagine anyone wanting to do anything other than get to the hospital after getting hit in the face 5 or 6 times.

 

[mljdeckard]

Because using a handgun is always a bad idea. (We carry them because sometimes it's the ONLY option.) In picking a .25 she is getting the absolute worst in a class of cartridges that are inadequate to begin with.

Jeff Cooper wrote something to the effect of: "If you must carry a .25 ACP pistol, whatever you do, do not load it, for if you load it, you may be tempted to shoot someone with it, and if that person finds out, they might be very upset."

Seriously, it's the worst of all worlds, short on penetrating power, range, velocity, energy, accuracy, and self-respect. ANYTHING is better than this cartridge. I will not let anyone who I actually care if they live or die carry a .25. I normally say get at least a 9mm, but I would be relieved if they got a .380 instead of a .25.

 

[BHP FAN]

I'm a big fan of autos....the Browning Hi Power is my favorite gun of all time....narrowly edging out my second favorite,the 1911,also a Browning design.
That said,there's a lot to be said for the snub in .327,.357 or plain vanilla .38.There's even the 940,in 9mm to match your duty or primary weapon for caliber...there's utter dependability.You're not spraying your brass around.With moon clips,reload speeds are quick,and again,no spilled brass.

 

[Psalm 144:1]

Would she consider a Taser? It meets the requirements of "hurt, but not kill" and around $300. It allows engagement from a distance without the concerns of use in a confined space or the wind blowing it back in her face. It's better than a handgun for someone who is untrained because it doesn't matter where you hit the BG, it WILL stop him. The new ones have a light and laser aiming device and even come in "pretty" fashion colors. I know it might be an anathema to suggest a taser on a gun website, but it may be the best option for all - considering her mindset...

 

[azyogi]

Just go ahead and appeal to her fashion sense, tell her the .25 is as out of style as a hoop skirt.

 

[BHP FAN]

Check Kimber's site.They have the mother of all pepper spray guns,a little two shot,blank powered,palm size life-saver!

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

if you have a shooting buddy that owns a good quality da .22LR revolver ask to borrow it to let her run some rounds through it. 'Terminator' rounds.
even better anyone you know that has a good (Beretta maybe) .32acp ask if they will let her try it out at about 10' range. the larger .32's have little 'kick' but lots of 'wallop' on the recieving end.

 

[BHP FAN]

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[BHP FAN]

I know,I'm supposed to be suggesting a gun,but if she doesn't really want to use one,she may hesitate...long enough for the worst to happen.

 

[Gryffydd]

It would be much much faster and simpler to drop the empty mag, put in a new one, and rack the slide (2 seconds to change mags compared to 15 seconds to reload a cylinder). And if she would carry a revolver with a speed loader, she might as well just carry any compact semi-auto and car

you would have about one shot per mugger until after your 15-second reload.

Hey, they make these really cool things for reloading revolvers--they're called "Speed Loaders" and they take a LOT less than 15 seconds to use.
Also, by quoting 2 seconds for the auto reload you're assuming she'd actually practice and be proficient at it, but would not do the same thing with a revolver?

Also, to all the people NOT reading the thread before posting, the whole hurting without killing thing has already been resolved, thanks.

 

[newgunmike]

thank you gryffydd, yes she is going to get a gun and she understands that if she has to use it she will shoot to stop(kill) the bg.
im gonna go to the range saturday with her and we're going to try out alot of different guns, semi-autos and revolvers, and get the one that best fits her hand and she likes the most, and of course the one she shoots best.and she is going to take the ccw class and hopefully become a regular visitor to the range.