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Help! Need evidence

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Texas Gun Person, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. Texas Gun Person

    Texas Gun Person Member

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    OK. So my mother... well I'm not sure where she stands on guns. She says it's okay for people to own guns, but it's not okay to carry them in public unless you are a LEO or trained (as in military) for the use of one. She says that there is no difference in the mindset of a criminal with a gun, and your everyday law abiding citizen with a gun for SD purposes.

    I throw random bits of information at her, and she thinks it all manipulated statistics that come from gun wielding maniacs, and organizations like the NRA.


    I'm here to ask anyone that has any positive, pro gun, information and statistics to post it up for me to show her. Or stories on how concealed or open carry prevented a bad situation from getting worse. Internet links and such.


    ANY information would be much appreciated. Its just aggravating is all that she has to freak out anytime I have a gun outside in public, or mention guns.
     
  2. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    Look at the state government sites for Florida, Texas and Michigan. Each of those has criminal stats for their CCW holders - every one showing much lower incidence of crimes by CCW holders than the general population.
     
  3. Texas Gun Person

    Texas Gun Person Member

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    Very nice. :D

    I knew there were national stats but didn't know states were posting up their own numbers.
     
  4. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Have you asked her why she thinks that way? Fl has 600,000 carry permits active while according to the Brady Campaign in the entire US only 117 permit holders have been guilty of criminally using a gun for all the 20+ years that permits have been issued. Pretty statistically small compared to violent crime rates. If we were the same as criminals the rates would match closely.

    Here's some simple logic exercises.

    There are millions of people who have carry permits in this country. Almost every one of them had to pass a background check while the vast majority of violent criminals couldn't. That alone defies her impression of cary permit holders as having the same mentality as criminals.

    Another exercise for her is to look at the number of people that have carry permits and the number of crimes committed by people with carry permits. Statistically, permit holders are not only not going to have criminal histories, but they're not likely to commit a crime after the permit is granted. Criminals are usually repeat offenders, the opposite of carry permit holders.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  6. tack

    tack Member

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    Go to http://www.gunfacts.info./, download their report and read it. Read it again the next day too.

    You are may times LESS likely to shoot an innocent bystander than is a LEO. You are many time MORE likely to stop someone during the commission of a crime than a LEO. As a trained firearm owner, you are many times more likely to stop a crime with your weapon than you are to have the weapon used on you. Read it for yourself.

    As to interpersonal communication, don't argue with your mom. Learn the truth and do not back down from it. If she is mistaken, ask her for her sources and know yours.

    My $.02
    Tack
     
  7. Eagles6

    Eagles6 Member

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    NRA magazines have a column entitled "Armed Citizen" every month. They are news stories from local news sources which can be checked.
    Also "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott is a good reference.
     
  8. Texas Gun Person

    Texas Gun Person Member

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    Forgot about those.

    Thanks guys. I got what I needed. If she does not want to pay attention to it... too bad.
     
  9. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    So there is no difference between good and evel ? Interesting
     
  10. ChaoSS

    ChaoSS Member

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    Forget stats for a moment, those can be faked, those can be skewed, and people just don't believe them.

    Ask her to really explain herself. When I wake up in the morning, I don't think about who I want to rob. If I'm standing in line at the store and someone pisses me off, I don't beat them to death.

    If I started to carry a gun, that wouldn't change. Just because I have a new tool doesn't mean that I'm going to do the wrong job.
     
  11. NWCP

    NWCP Member

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    If you're living under your mother's roof you should respect her position on the matter. Otherwise I wouldn't spend too much time trying to convince her that she should side with you on the issue of firearms. I seriously doubt you'll be changing her mind any time soon.
     
  12. shockwave

    shockwave Member

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    That is the truth. And we all ought to understand that the unarmed citizen will often be uncomfortable with the idea that the person standing next to them in a store might be carrying a firearm. Statistics, logic, reason won't change that.
     
  13. SMMAssociates

    SMMAssociates Member

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    Another interesting thing to remember, but probably hard to prove, IMHO, is that most licensees never commit any crimes that aren't more or less directly related to carrying in places where the legislators, bless their black and bloated hearts, have chosen us to be defenseless in....

    And, generally speaking, doing this unintentionally....

    Regards,
     
  14. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    She`s your Mom...........handle it.
     
  15. danprkr

    danprkr Member

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    Often people on both sides of the issue who have their minds made up are going to dismiss the statistics that are unpleasant for them to hear because they might have to think long and hard. One of the things I have had SOME luck with though is making it analogous to some issue that the other person is in favor of. For instance I have had some luck on the health care issue this way. A buddy of mine that claims to be pro-freedom, and therefor owns and carries guns. But, they are all in favor of government controlled health care. So, I approached it from that angle asking him does he think the government should mandate the number of rounds his HK magazine. They say no, and I then point out that I don't think the government should be mandating which doctor gets my money. I don't know if it worked yet or not, but they haven't been advocating to me anymore.
     
  16. winknplink

    winknplink Member

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    Lol, sounds good in theory...

    A woman w/o a reality check is a dangerous, ever-evolving terror. Bank that.
     
  17. wishin

    wishin Member

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    Your mom says she's ok with guns, but doesn't want you talking about them or carrying one. Based on everything else you add here, I don't think she's at all okay with firearms. Good luck in trying to convince her otherwise.

    Make your life and her's easier by not displaying them around her. If she brings up the subject, give her verifiable facts and refrain from arguing.
     
  18. DataMonkey

    DataMonkey Member

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    Texas Gun Person,
    My mom is not a statistics person like me. I'd been trying to persuade her with facts for a long time.
    About 3 weeks ago, I started to get thru to her using Oleg Volk's posters. They are simple, concise messages. (Disclaimer: I am also a Virginia Tech alum, so the VT posters he has on his site hit home to her.) If statistics don't work for her, try the posters.
     
  19. Jumping Frog

    Jumping Frog Member

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    Does she like to read?

    Since she thinks that statistics are all lies, maybe she would be more comfortable with case histories?

    Here are a couple of books I've read that deal with the totality of a self defense incident. They get into issues like aftermath, legal, emotional etc. She may like them.


    Thank God I Had a Gun : True Accounts of Self-Defense by Chris Bird
    The Best Defense: True Stories of Intended Victims Who Defended Themselves With a Firearm, by Robert A. Waters.

    Also, check out http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/ for news accounts documenting self defense. He's got years of documentation and they are interesting stories.
     
  20. DFW1911

    DFW1911 Member

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    You can tell her the use of my CCW pistol saved my life once.

    I can assure you beyond any doubt that the my mindset and that of the other guy were vastly different.

    To even consider us as having the same mentality is, with all due respect, offensive. Again, no disrespect toward your mother, just the notion.

    I hope this helps. Personal events are much more "human" that stats read from a website.

    If she wants details on my "event" ask her to PM me; she might just change her mind.

    Take care,
    DFW1911
     
  21. cleardiddion

    cleardiddion Member

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  22. JellyJar

    JellyJar Member

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    Ask around at shooting ranges and gun stores to see if you can find a woman who has used a gun to defend herself in public. Then see if that woman would be willing to have a heart to heart talk with your mother.
     
  23. Mikhail Weiss

    Mikhail Weiss Member

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    Good lord. She thinks that if she owned a gun she would suddenly acquire hitherto unknown criminal intent? If she would not think it of herself, why would she think it of others?
     
  24. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

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    Texas?

    Google "Suzanna Hupp."
    Youtube "Suzanna Hupp."
     
  25. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    You don't need to explain anything. She needs to justify this statement. The REAL problem is figuring out as lovingly as you can to get her to realize that.
     
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