Heres how i grip it, now im ready for yall to rip it

[Potatohead]

Hey all, i PM'ed 9mmEpiphany to critique my grip last night and he told me to post it as a thread , saying you all would have some fine points to make, and he too would post about it when he got the chance today. So, let me know what you think. Ive been shooting for 6 months, dont plan on shooting matches, but do want to be as fundamentally sound as possible. I'm getting shots on target decently (sometimes), but could sure use any help anyone has to offer. So lay it on me! I will check back on posts here shortly. Thanks everyone!

Sorry about the sideways pic

 

[mr.trooper]

Finger OFF trigger for starters. Only YOU can prevent negligent discharges.

Others will be along to tell you to keep your thumbs parallel, in keeping with current competition stance... but in reality, if that grip is stable, it probably wont make much difference in your actual results provided you have a good purchase on the weapon.

 

[Potatohead]

oops..was unloaded of course..i know, still, finger off trigger...thx for ur reply

 

[WoodchuckAssassin]

Like Trooper said, some will tell you that you need to point your thumbs at the target. Actually, the grip you have is a perfect Revolver-style grip. Whatever grip gives you the most contact with the gun is going to be the best grip to use; having a space between your right palm and the grip frame is going to result in inconsistent follow-up shots.

How does the rest of your stance look? My dad insists on shooting his pistols "like a rifle", meaning that his right arm is strait out parallel to the sight plane, and his left arm is bent at about a 120 degree angle, helping to support the gun. I prefer the FBI stance with both arms outstretched.

 

[Potatohead]

How does the rest of your stance look?

Geez. I dont even know. Hadnt much thought about it. Very inconsistent i'd say. Sometimes right elbow locked, sometimes bent with the gun pulled in a bit. Sometimes knees bent, sometimes not. I bet i need to shoot the same way every time- i just havent known which way is the "correct" way so ive been trying everything i think.

 

[Potatohead]

My groups are all over the target, i mean all over. I think the majority of the problem has been flinching and trigger control. Ive been trying hard to concentrate on making sure i see the ejection so i know im flinching less and also my trigger pull. My first 3 shots today were in the center ring (about 8 yards away) but from there it pretty much went to Hades as usual. Just some sporadic success after that

 

[HKGuns]

That is exactly the grip that I use.....I can use it with auto's and revolvers and it works well for me. The thumbs forward crew can bite me. I actually had some swat cop tell me he's never seen anyone use a grip like that before!

That grip is just as valid as the one that is in vogue now where you're constantly interfering with the control levers.

If your groups are all over the target you should get some instruction and perhaps consider modifying your grip. At only 8 yards you should be making one ragged hole, very easily, in the target.

...and yes, finger of the freaking trigger.:banghead::banghead:

 

[mesinge2]

Here's a proper Semi-Auto grip:

 

[mesinge2]

My groups are all over the target, i mean all over. I think the majority of the problem has been flinching and trigger control. Ive been trying hard to concentrate on making sure i see the ejection so i know im flinching less and also my trigger pull. My first 3 shots today were in the center ring (about 8 yards away) but from there it pretty much went to Hades as usual. Just some sporadic success after that

This should help:

 

[OptimusPrime]

For my $0.02, I would offer two suggestions:
I use the second pad on my finger, not the first. I find that the tip of my finger is more prone to "twitchiness" but the second pad is a lot more controlled. Not the wrinkle at the knuckle, but the second pad itself.

And pay attention to your feet. Right leg back, left foot shoulder-width, forming a triangle if seen from above. Provides a solid base and consistency.

That's for me at least, everyone's opinion will differ.

 

[Potatohead]

thanks yall.

 

[Potatohead]

optimus,
'you say right foot back, left shoulder width..what do you mean by that? feet are side by side, shoulder width apart?

 

[gym]

To me it looks like a revolver grip, except the left hand would be lower.. If you slide your left hand forward an up, so your left thumb is on the frame. You may see you get a lot of benefit from having the left hand stabalize the weapon. Try it and see, the way you are holding it now it can flip side to side between shots, where if you held the hands higher on the gun it will stabalize your shots and give you an all around better grip. But if you don't try it for a while, "like anything else" you won't get used to it.
More like what Mesinge, showed you, but with a small auto it will cover most of the gun, giving you a very steady platform to shoot from. Also just see how much more stable your grip is when you overlap your fingers, instead of having them almost meet below the trigger guard. You can get that gun so much lower on the barrel axis, it should improve your shooting and lower the felt recoil. Just my 2 cents

 

[Potatohead]

If you slide your left hand forward an up

good point. I'd heard that before and when i remembered to try it this morning, i was on target more often than not. why did i not keep doing it? im not sure, not in the habit i guess

 

[Potatohead]

i just noticed one of my pics is sideways. sorry bout that

 

[OptimusPrime]

optimus,
'you say right foot back, left shoulder width..what do you mean by that? feet are side by side, shoulder width apart?

I mean that I very slightly put my left shoulder forward, like I'm about to push open a heavy door. I lean into the recoil and it really stems from the power of my right leg bracing me forward.
Stand there, like normal, and drop your right foot back a half step. From above I form a triangle with my feet and the pistol.
I am not a pro shooter like many on here, I just know what is comfortable for me and has had very good results for me.

 

[gym]

Also watch your breathing. Take a couple deep breaths befor you fire and let it out right before you shoot. It's like working out, try to inhale only after you fire.Of course if someone is attacking you you do what is necessary. But for targets, try to get your body still by exhaling then firing .

 

[back40]

that's the grip that i typically use for a revolver. for an auto, i'm a parallel thumbs forward guy. one of my biggest reasons is that your firing hand thumb is tucked under your support hand, making it more difficult to reach and activate/deactivate the thumb safety. not a huge issue, but i like my firing hand thumb free to activate the thumb safety. even when shooting my glock (no thumb safety) i have a more secure and stable hold on the weapon with the thumbs forward (firing thumb over top the support thumb) grip. ultimately, try out different grips and give each an honest chance, then choose what works best for you.

 

[BCRider]

Pototoehead, the big difference between your hold and the one in mesinge2's post pictures are that in your hold there's a big gap under the palm of your left hand. With mesinge2's method the thumb of the right hand lifts up a little to make room for the heel of your left hand to slip in and fill up the open strip of the grips that are not covered by the right hand already. This gives you that much more contact with the gun so you get more support all around.

And even mesinge2's grip has been modified by some to sink the gun down deeper within the support of the hands. Check out these two You Tube videos;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0HkjXpQBxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Note how deep the gun sits down within the support of the hands of that first video. The odd wrist angle shown for the left hand is the key to maximizing the support provided by your support hand so it's not just along for the ride like your thumb over thumb grip is limited to. It's this fingers down method that lets the support hand slide up and forward so you add to the gun stability that really makes the method shine.

It'll feel very awkward and stressful on your wrist at first. But stick with it and see if your group size doesn't shrink. ESPECIALLY your fast but still aimed fire groups. And even try some 5 shot rapid fire groups like the video with various methods and see if the odd cocked and high up on the gun method doesn't work for you. I know for me it's the difference between getting fast double tap A's or -0's in my IPSC and IDPA matches and seeing the stuff all over the target.

While the hand position is majorly important there is also gains to be found with the arms and legs.

Look at the arms and elbow direction in the Todd Jarret video. Note that the elbows are up and out instead of in and down. Rotating your elbows so they point out a bit aids in further controlling the recoil of the gun so that it's more straight back than up. Notice that their hands don't lift up with each shot. Just the gun flexes a little within the grip due to the recoil energy. But with the stable grip given with this method the gun will spring back into place for the next shot and the sight picture is thus quicker to re-establish.

For this two handed method I found after some playing that both feet straight across to the line of fire worked best for me. I then crouch slightly and get balanced on the balls of my feet. Shoulders are forward but not so much that I duck my head. Note the part in the second video where he coaches that guy to not get tucked so extremely.

 

[JTQ]

This is Doug Koenig with a 1911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDzC6djUQxM

Of course, Ayoob holds his 1911 differently. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

 

[Ankeny]

To quote Ron Avery, "A proper grip will maximize friction and minimize torque." The "friction" is the contact area between the hands and the grip panels, torque is in reference to muzzle flip. The grip shown by Todd J. and by Doug K. is used by the vast majority of the better "action shooters" and works well for the majority of people. If nothing else, it is a place to start.

 

[Potatohead]

oh my goodness you all, that is some good info and i appreciate it. Thanks for vids too. i will be trying out a lot of this next weekend. i wish i would have posted this yesterday so i could have tried some of it this am. thanks everyone

 

[5Wire]

What you show in the original post is a variation of what Massad Ayoob calls the Crush Grip I use it. However, I'd add an acronym of an observation of a resource economist I knew, TANORW: There Ain't No One Right Way.

Thumb position is negotiable. Generations of shooters with the GI 1911 .45 learned to shoot with the thumb high, resting on the manual safety. Many competitive target shooters prefer to point the thumb straight at the target. This straight thumb position seems to align the skeleto-muscular structure of the hand in a way that allows the index finger its straightest rearward movement. With powerful guns, curling the thumb down to add grasping strength and enhance control is a valid technique. A lot of it depends on how the gun fits your hand. The controls may also be a factor. With a conventional double action auto that has a safety catch mounted on the slide (Beretta, S&W, and Ruger to name just a few), I like my thumb to be where it can not only push the lever into the "fire" position, but verify that the lever is in fact in the position it should be in.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Your grip will not necessarily help you to shoot more accurately. Look at bullseye shooters who can drill the center out of a target while shooting with one hand. A good grip will help you to shoot faster because you can control the gun during recoil.

I shoot thumbs forward and get my hands as high up on the gun as the mechanics of the pistol will allow me. If you are having to fix your grip every couple shots then you are doing it wrong or the gun has more recoil than you can handle.

Some tips for accuracy-

Start with the target up close. 3 yards is where I start beginners and when they shoot a nice little group the target gets moved out a couple more yards.

Focus on the front sight. Perfect sight alignment is not critical at 3 yards, as long as you can see the front sight blade through the rear sight you can squeeze the trigger.

Get your grip on the gun and keep it that way. Try not to move any muscles except the ones that need to pull the trigger. You are probably squeezing your grip harder when the trigger is being pulled because you are anticipating the shot.

Concentrate on your trigger press. Line up your sights with the target, put your finger on the trigger, and then start pressing with a little bit of pressure and keep building that pressure until the trigger breaks. Repeat this with every shot.

 

[Fremmer]

What if you've got a really long trigger finger and it feels like you're brushing it against the support hand thumb while firing the gun?