Hey Tuner, xray of 1911 firing

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Here's a thought, for believers and non-believers alike, with regards to barrel pull's effect on the gun unlocking:

Consider some IPSC open guns.

These guns are, operationally, 1911's, shooting 38 super +P (really, more like +P+). Way more pressure than .45 ACP.

They have radically lightened slides.

They run with recoil springs as light as 8 or 9 pounds.

Given just those factors, these guns should be blowing out brass and hammering themselves to pieces. Yet they do neither.

Why is that?

(Hint: It begins with "C" and ends with "ompensator.") ;)
 
They have radically lightened slides.
They run with recoil springs as light as 8 or 9 pounds.

Good points...but remember that if the comp is attached to the barrel, it adds mass to the reciprocating assembly...so it gets a little closer to square one. The other point is that the recoil spring doesn't have a lot of effect in delaying the slide at the very beginning of the cycle...and the linkdown and breech opening won't happen until the barrel is drawn back far enough to reach the linkdown timing point. "Time" and "Timing" are related, but they're not the same. Time is a function of distance. Timing is fixed, and it will occur at the same point, regardless of how fast or slow the slide moves. It only has to be delayed long enough for the bullet to exit.
 
if the comp is attached to the barrel, it adds mass to the reciprocating assembly
Absolutely. The mass of the compensator does come into play. As does the gas hitting the compensator baffles. Like you say, if it CAN affect it, it WILL.

Slide mass, barrel mass, recoil spring rate, and barrel pull from bullet drag or a compensator all play a part in the complex balancing act that is a functional pistol. Change any one factor, and you have to account for it elsewhere, or there are consequences. (failure to function, destroying brass, abusing the gun, etc)

The other point is that the recoil spring doesn't have a lot of effect in delaying the slide at the very beginning of the cycle
Still right there with you. I'm just trying to illustrate a point about bullet drag / barrel pull, which I'll get to in a second.

By the time the action has unlocked, the bullet and the gases propelling it are out the barrel and gone. The remainder of the slide's travel is powered only by inertia. It's during this part of the slide's travel that the recoil spring comes into play. The spring slows the slide down as it gets compressed. Too low a spring rate, and the pistol gets battered and wears prematurely. Too high a spring rate, and the gun may not cycle.

Now, given the same round firing in the gun, there is a fixed amount of energy being produced. The more energy required to get things to linkdown & unlock, the less energy left over afterward for the slide to keep moving. Increasing the barrel weight, bullet drag, or forward thrust from a compensator require more energy to move the barrel back to linkdown, so the slide will have less energy once the gun is unlocked. You then need to lower the recoil spring rate to balance things out.

Of course, it is theoretically possible to add so much weight and pull on the barrel that the recoil spring required to balance things out is too weak strip rounds from the magazine. It all goes back to that complex balancing act.

But I digress.

Consider that the standard recoil spring for a 38super is 14#. Conventional wisdom says to run a heavier spring with hot ammo, so a gun shooting +P+ should probably have a 16-18# spring, if not more. Yet by adding a compensator to the equation, we can cut the recoil spring rate in half.

To make a long story short (too late!), here is my point:
We know that bullet drag is significant enough to operate a blow-forward design. Given what the compensator example shows, how could bullet drag not have been accounted for in the design?
 
nah, inertia and momentum are the same thing.

Inertia is an idea, not a quantifiable number. I guess you could say it is the same as mass.

Inertia is the idea that an object at rest requires some sort of force to go into motion. Once the object is in motion, some sort of force is required to change the velocity of the object.
 
If you are talking about that Schwarzlose being a blow foward design, go to post 295, click on the www thing and read the description of that pistol and its' operation. Nothing mentioned about blow foward.

If there is such a hand gun, could someone post a link, please?
 
Damn cool xray, but I wonder how much radiation he picked up on his hand? :what: With that good of a picture, he had to of shot the @!#$#% out of it.
 
Inertia is the property of a body that resists acceleration (or deceleration) and is only mass related.

Momentum is a product of mass and velocity. The two are quite different.

Peter
 
"...I wonder how much radiation he picked up on his hand?"

Probably none.
I would bet remote fired.
The energy of x-rays to expose through steel are relatively high and you would not want any part of you in that beam.
 
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