Hi tek bullets recovered, what should they look like?

[Random 8]

Recently got done messing with some of these from MB company in my .41 BH. I think there is something wrong with the coating on these bullets. I was able to recover several as the snowbank I was shooting into melted. The coating is flaked off of most bore contact surfaces on the front and rear driving band, both lands and grooves, not ironed into the lead as I've seen on pictures of recovered bullets.

In my shooting, accuracy rapidly degraded over the course of 15 rounds, and silver streaking was present following both lands and grooves at the muzzle.

Loads were 8 gr Unique and 6 gr of unique (second attempt after cleaning). I also tried 6 of them running warm over IMR 4227, testing the "too mild for the alloy theory) and got leading within 6 rounds. The lighter load of Unique held up better, but leading was evident and accuracy became unacceptable after 20 rounds.

Can anybody post some pics of recovered Hi-tek bullets and what they should look like in loads that do not lead the heck out of your barrel? I'll try to post some pics of mine tomorrow with better lighting.

In contrast, I ran 35 Penn bullets, traditional cast/lubed over a full load of IMR 4227 with zero evidence of leading or degradation of groups from start to finish.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I have loaded quite a few SNS coated bullets for my 41 mag BH with no leading. No recovered bullets but if I have time this weekend I'll try to get some. I have loaded with 7-8 gr Unique and 20gr+ H110.

 

[fxvr5]

easily found with a google search

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=466742&page=2
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-bullets-in-the-mail.818113/

C'mon people, learn how to use Google.

 

[Havok7416]

Over 1,400 fps:

 

[Bfh_auto]

I've recovered rifle bullets that were only worn off at the lands and the nose. I also found ones that were worn off all the way around.
The one rifle leaded terribly. The other one didn't.
I don't have pictures.

 

[jmorris]

One of my powder coated bullets.



The top one is my hi-tek bullet, the bottom is a Precision bullet.



How you recover them will make a big difference is what they look like. All of thoes were fired into water.

 

[Mostly Lead]

I was able to recover several as the snowbank I was shooting into melted.

Been a long time since I've shot into a snowbank... wondered if the cold and the time spent sitting there could be a factor.

 

[Toprudder]

I am a firm believer that the roughness of the forcing cone and barrel can have a significant impact on the performance of bullet coatings. While I have had great luck with coated or plated bullets in most of my guns, I have a Ruger Blackhawk that simply did not work well with either coated or plated bullets. The coated bullets leaded the barrel quite a bit. I saw evidence of plating failure (small shards of copper, and leading in the barrel) when using plated bullets, even when kept to 1000 fps. The forcing cone had visible machine marks on it. I have since started using Zero jacketed bullets and have no problems. I figure once I shoot a few thousand rounds through it, it may be worn smooth enough that I can revisit coated bullets.

 

[Random 8]

Those all look much more coated than mine. What got me to believe the bullets, rather than the gun were the problem, is I have had no problems shooting previous samples of coated bullets, and the Berry's plated has been a longtime favorite in this firearm. I also have run a buttload of conventional cast through it with zero issues. Think I got a bad batch of coated bullets.

 

[jmorris]

Those all look much more coated than mine. What got me to believe the bullets, rather than the gun were the problem, is I have had no problems shooting previous samples of coated bullets, and the Berry's plated has been a longtime favorite in this firearm. I also have run a buttload of conventional cast through it with zero issues. Think I got a bad batch of coated bullets.

FWIW the bullets I posted were fired from a gain twist rifled barrel (a Schumann AET). I do know for sure that they don’t like plated bullets. Berry’s, even under 1000 FPS might come apart in them.

 

[Random 8]

Yours look more like I expect them to look, with the coating more "ironed in" to the lead, rather than scraped or flaked away as they look from my .41. The 9mm ones I've recovered in the past, as well as some misc other bullets of unknown origin from a snowbank at my local range look more like yours.

BTW, several feet of soft snow is a very good medium for recovering intact bullets. Even some dead soft round balls at the local range were not deformed and showed the rifling engraving cleanly.

 

[jmorris]

I tested my application method by taking one of my cast bullets and smacking it with a 2.5 lb hammer, if it stayed put, it could make it out of a barrel.

Quite a difference in OD, from coated dimension, with no “flaking”.

 

[jmorris]

You can also heat them on a surface and the coating will contain the molten lead.

Until you poke a hole in it.


Or drop it.

 

[jmorris]

BTW, several feet of soft snow is a very good medium for recovering intact bullets.

I have always wanted to do this.



“Spinning fast” is an understatement. A 1:10 barrel with 1300 FPS velocity would be around 93,600 rpm!

I still don’t know how they pop out in such good condition but I have seen too many examples to disbelieve it.

 

[kcofohio]

I have shot MBC's coated bullets in several cartridges. All handguns, including 357 and magnum powders. As of yet, I have seen no signs fouling in any of the barrels.

That said, I do want to try some in a 357 rifle, and I will be curious of how the coating holds up in the longer barrel. I plan to try some 140 gr. (Zingers) with 2400 before I order some heavier coated bullets.

 

[Havok7416]

I have shot MBC's coated bullets in several cartridges. All handguns, including 357 and magnum powders. As of yet, I have seen no signs fouling in any of the barrels.

That said, I do want to try some in a 357 rifle, and I will be curious of how the coating holds up in the longer barrel. I plan to try some 140 gr. (Zingers) with 2400 before I order some heavier coated bullets.

It's not the barrel length that's the issue. Velocity is the limiting factor and that tends to be true more of actual rifle calibers. .30-30, .300 Blackout, .30 Carbine and plenty of other similar calibers do just fine with coated bullets. Some people even run them in .30-06 although I haven't done so myself yet.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I have shot MBC's coated bullets in several cartridges. All handguns, including 357 and magnum powders. As of yet, I have seen no signs fouling in any of the barrels.

That said, I do want to try some in a 357 rifle, and I will be curious of how the coating holds up in the longer barrel. I plan to try some 140 gr. (Zingers) with 2400 before I order some heavier coated bullets.

I run the coated MBC 180WFN in a 35 Whelen with a case full of imr 4350 without leading. I'm sure you won't have issues in a 357mag.

 

[NWPilgrim]

Makes me think I should get some BayouBullets that also use Hi-Tek coating and compare fired bullets with the Missouri coated ones I have not tested yet.

 

[forrest r]

FWIW:
I don't use hi-tech coating on my cast bullets. But I do use a pc powder.
hi-tech ='s polyurethane
pc powder ='s polyester

recovered pistol/revolver bullets that were used in loads that were from mild (+/- 800fps) to wild (1600fps+).


Testing rifle bullets in a 308w looking for a soft hunting alloy. too hard of an alloy and the bullets were brittle/shattered. The 2300fps bullet was used in a 50,000+psi load. The alloy bend/dindn't shatter.


Was testing coated/pc'd/cast bullets in a 30" bbl'd 308w looking for moa high velocity loads. Got +/- 1 1/2" 10-shot groups in the 2650+fps range so far. Getting rid of that last 1/2" is going to be extremely hard. At 2700fps I started getting black streaks in the 308w bbl. Bore-tech eliminator got it out. Now I pc + use a 45/45/10 tumble lube on the rifle bullets that will be used in loads over 2600fps.


The only time I've seen the pc come off the body of a bullet is when it was under cured/not baked right in the oven either from the wrong temperature or too short of a cook time at the right temperature. A lyman hollow based swc (429422) that was loaded in 44spl cases and then a hp was added using a forster hp tool using a 60* center drill. Testing 1000+fps loads in a snubnosed 44spl.


The pc looks good on that bullet. A thick coat that has a good gloss to it. But the pc wasn't cured right and the pc scraped off the body of the bullet when it went down the bbl. A side view of the same mushroomed bullet pictured above. Note the body of the bullet compressed and the base actually flared/expanded.


Anyway the only time I see the pc coating come off my bullets is from them either hitting something hard & having the pc scrapped off. Or when the pc is under cured.

 

[Random 8]

All of the above look much more coated than any of mine. I'm over 25 recovered now, and the only ones that look decent were some where I dropped the velocity WAY down, like 700fpsish. Very clean recovery from the snowbank, zero deformation on impact zones, and the coating on nose is intact. Lands it is missing, and missing entirely lands and grooves from rear driving band. Emailed MBC, they made it right, and sent me replacement of non-coated conventional cast. In the E-mail, they referenced a bad batch of coated .41s, undercured, in the same time frame mine were purchased.

The loads I tested with Penn conventional hardcast 215 TC resulted in no leading even over a max load of IMR 4227, so those seem GTG. I may eventually give coated bullets another try in this pistol just for fun, but am quite happy with the Penn bullet accuracy and performance wise. Now to see what the conventional cast MBC SWCs will do.

 

[jmorris]

I sacrifice one out of every batch like the photo in #12, that way a “bad batch” doesn’t make it to the loading process.

 

[Havok7416]

All of the above look much more coated than any of mine. I'm over 25 recovered now, and the only ones that look decent were some where I dropped the velocity WAY down, like 700fpsish. Very clean recovery from the snowbank, zero deformation on impact zones, and the coating on nose is intact. Lands it is missing, and missing entirely lands and grooves from rear driving band. Emailed MBC, they made it right, and sent me replacement of non-coated conventional cast. In the E-mail, they referenced a bad batch of coated .41s, undercured, in the same time frame mine were purchased.

The loads I tested with Penn conventional hardcast 215 TC resulted in no leading even over a max load of IMR 4227, so those seem GTG. I may eventually give coated bullets another try in this pistol just for fun, but am quite happy with the Penn bullet accuracy and performance wise. Now to see what the conventional cast MBC SWCs will do.

The bullets above your post look more coated because they have a different coating (it looks like Harbor Freight red). In fact that was the first thing he mentioned. Hi-Tek has a thinner coat but is no less durable, your bad batch notwithstanding.

 

[Random 8]

Havok, was referring to the totality of the post, as in ALL of the above bullets, even the abused ones. My sedate 900fps load in the .41 stripped it all off.

 

[Havok7416]

I see. As you have discovered, your coating was obviously not applied correctly.

I remember reaching out to MBC via email before they offered coated bullets (2014 according to my email message) to ask if they planned to offer some eventually. Brad responded (copied from my email): "Not at this time. The Hi-Tec process is extremely labor intensive and we wouldn't be able to do any volume using it. You have to size the bullets, cook the bullets, then size them again. Not doable!
Thank you.
Brad"

Less than a month later they were offering Hi-Tek bullets!

 

[Tilos]

I see. As you have discovered, your coating was obviously not applied correctly.

I remember reaching out to MBC via email before they offered coated bullets (2014 according to my email message) to ask if they planned to offer some eventually. Brad responded (copied from my email): "Not at this time. The Hi-Tec process is extremely labor intensive and we wouldn't be able to do any volume using it. You have to size the bullets, cook the bullets, then size them again. Not doable!
Thank you.
Brad"

Less than a month later they were offering Hi-Tek bullets!

um...me too
I got an email from Brad asking why I hadn't bought any bullets for awhile, and answered that I had been buying hi-tek coated bullets without lube grooves because they work in a bullet feed die.
I got the same response as you, and the offering of Hi-Tek soon after, but the offered Hi-Teks had lube grooves (at the time).
I don't know if the currently MBC offers coated bullets all have lube grooves or not, I'm happy with what I use now, and I haven't looked.