High Fences
- Thread starter Art Eatman
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MCgunner
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Yep, we fought a whole revolution, but not so that you could hunt on my land without permission or so that the state could own all the land. We value property rights here just as the founding fathers did. This is not a commune where the state owns all the land and lets the populace hunt it at the state's whim. We can actually OWN the land and make a living off it if we can afford to accumulate enough of it. Hunting is just one way to make a living off it. My BIL has oil. I hope he remembers his sister if he goes first. 
Of course, the state taxes us for that "right". I'm more POed about THAT than about not having soviet coops near that I can hunt. Heck, I think the government should sell off all the BLM lands and pay the Chinese some interest money with it. We ain't a rich nation anymore, ya know. If the price was right, I might be interested in some. I heard a guy on the radio the other day suggest we could alleviate social security obligations by offering government land to seniors in lieu of SSI payments, but I don't know if I'll go down THAT road. I'd probably get some parcel in Utah I couldn't grow 1 goat on 10K acres on. I've seen some of that worthless land, pretty, but worthless. LOL
Sorry, verging upon politics, I'll stop now.
Of course, the state taxes us for that "right". I'm more POed about THAT than about not having soviet coops near that I can hunt. Heck, I think the government should sell off all the BLM lands and pay the Chinese some interest money with it. We ain't a rich nation anymore, ya know. If the price was right, I might be interested in some. I heard a guy on the radio the other day suggest we could alleviate social security obligations by offering government land to seniors in lieu of SSI payments, but I don't know if I'll go down THAT road. I'd probably get some parcel in Utah I couldn't grow 1 goat on 10K acres on. I've seen some of that worthless land, pretty, but worthless. LOLSorry, verging upon politics, I'll stop now.
d2wing
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OK Mcgunner I see your point. From here it's hard to see what you do. I am trying to discuss regional differences as that is what the op brought up. I am trying not to be judgmental about it. When you talk about high fences it sound like penned so it's good to know actual hinting goes on. I not an expert but I do have opinions I'm willing to share.
MCgunner
Member
Art explained MOST of the high fence ranches in Texas are HUGE. Man, the part that baffles me is how they can afford that much game fence. I couldn't afford to fence my YARD with that stuff, LOL! You drive down a highway like 90 west of San Antonio and you see miles and miles of it all on one ranch. Wow, it's like a little fenced off country. I mean, we have ranches bigger'n Rhode Island just south of my town, Corpus Christi. As Art said, they put the fences up on those managed ranches to keep the undesirable genetics OUT, not to keep the deer IN. A LOT goes in to those operations. It's big business. A major point of the OP is just that, on these ranches, they're so big, it's free range, fence or no. The fence is there to isolate a gene pool, nothing more. Well, they help keep poachers at bay, but they still need law enforcement to keep out the.. uh...I hate to call 'em "hunters" and certainly not "sportsmen". They're more like thieves. You have to pay to play there because if you want a shot at finding BIG deer, it takes a lot to build and maintain the playground.
There's plenty of public land one can hunt in Texas if you enjoy the challenge and refuse to pay to play. It's a misconception to think Texas has no public hunting. It is around, most of it in East Texas, but it's around. I've got places near me in Corpus I can hunt hogs, waterfowl (danged good, too), and doves. If you don't like these high fence operations, they certainly don't require you to hunt there. I understand the appeal of spot and stalk hunting on public land, have done a lot of it in my younger days. New Mexico is only a day's drive even from HERE.
Anyway, I think Art is trying to clear up some things about high fence operations and, of course, he got the usual arguments from the NWerners and midwesterners and such.... but, that's predictable I reckon. Most minds are made up on the subject, in error or not. Every hunter thinks he's an expert, after all. I'm guilty of that attitude all the time as you can tell. ROFL!
There's plenty of public land one can hunt in Texas if you enjoy the challenge and refuse to pay to play. It's a misconception to think Texas has no public hunting. It is around, most of it in East Texas, but it's around. I've got places near me in Corpus I can hunt hogs, waterfowl (danged good, too), and doves. If you don't like these high fence operations, they certainly don't require you to hunt there. I understand the appeal of spot and stalk hunting on public land, have done a lot of it in my younger days. New Mexico is only a day's drive even from HERE.
Anyway, I think Art is trying to clear up some things about high fence operations and, of course, he got the usual arguments from the NWerners and midwesterners and such.... but, that's predictable I reckon. Most minds are made up on the subject, in error or not. Every hunter thinks he's an expert, after all. I'm guilty of that attitude all the time as you can tell. ROFL!
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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I'd just about bet Art was waiting for me to post on this subject 
I've said it many many times on here, not a thing wrong with many of the high fenced operations in Texas. They are so big that, as Art already stated, deer have more than what their normal range would be anyway. It's these little 500 and under acre plots that piss me off to no end. Like Keith Warren likes to advertise for. Sorry but those things should be outlawed completely and "people" (used word very loosely) such as him should be put in one of them and "hunted" then see if he changes his tune! Can't stand it when those guys get on TV hoopin and hollerin about the giant buck that they "stalked" up on (forgetting to mention that the owner just put his pet in the 200 acre pen for them an hour ago). To each his own and it's a free country but for God's sake do NOT equate that to hunting or any other type of sportsmanship whatsoever!
As to what Art was saying, hell yeah that's hunting. If you have never been on 1000 acres or more trying to hunt a deer, you have no clue how hard it is. As long as those big operations aren't humanizing the deer with routine feeding areas and times then those deer are as wild as wild can be. They will just have better genetics and the property owners will be able to control the population much better by keeping the other, less desirable deer, out.
I've said it many many times on here, not a thing wrong with many of the high fenced operations in Texas. They are so big that, as Art already stated, deer have more than what their normal range would be anyway. It's these little 500 and under acre plots that piss me off to no end. Like Keith Warren likes to advertise for. Sorry but those things should be outlawed completely and "people" (used word very loosely) such as him should be put in one of them and "hunted" then see if he changes his tune! Can't stand it when those guys get on TV hoopin and hollerin about the giant buck that they "stalked" up on (forgetting to mention that the owner just put his pet in the 200 acre pen for them an hour ago). To each his own and it's a free country but for God's sake do NOT equate that to hunting or any other type of sportsmanship whatsoever!
As to what Art was saying, hell yeah that's hunting. If you have never been on 1000 acres or more trying to hunt a deer, you have no clue how hard it is. As long as those big operations aren't humanizing the deer with routine feeding areas and times then those deer are as wild as wild can be. They will just have better genetics and the property owners will be able to control the population much better by keeping the other, less desirable deer, out.
MCgunner
Member
Why would you outlaw them? In what way to they infringe upon your rights to hunt? I don't like 'em, either, for the same reasons you don't. Now, deer on those places still have to be found, but I've seen 'em where exotics followed the jeep (feed spreader) like the friggin' pied piper and shooting a Red Deer stag (for instance) was almost as expensive as booking a hunt in Europe and was about like shooting a cow. The things were tame. I was there taking meat hogs, got 3 in one day and went home. But, ya know what, I had fun doing THAT. The hogs were still pretty hard to find, but could be successfully still hunted on foot during daylight, which if you know anything about hogs, is pretty novel. And, well, it was like walking around in a petting zoo. Got real close to a lot of strange critters I couldn't even identify. LOL!
Anyway, that's off topic, just to say I don't wanna outlaw such operations. I ain't gonna go to one, won't spend my money on one except maybe to shoot hogs, but if some lawyer in San Antonio wants a Gemsbok head for his office wall, who am I to tell him he can't? It's HIS money! Same for the OP and the deer hunting. I vote not to go, so I don't, but I won't tell someone else they can't. I might call 'em names for going there, behind their backs of course. But, in the end, it's their money and the owner's land to make money as he sees fit with.
And, if you quote me "ethics" as a reason, there are people in this country who think it's UNethical to hunt anything any where. That's the "E" in PETA, ya know. Where do we draw the line on restrictions?
The hogs were still pretty hard to find, but could be successfully still hunted on foot during daylight, which if you know anything about hogs, is pretty novel. And, well, it was like walking around in a petting zoo. Got real close to a lot of strange critters I couldn't even identify. LOL!Anyway, that's off topic, just to say I don't wanna outlaw such operations. I ain't gonna go to one, won't spend my money on one except maybe to shoot hogs, but if some lawyer in San Antonio wants a Gemsbok head for his office wall, who am I to tell him he can't? It's HIS money! Same for the OP and the deer hunting. I vote not to go, so I don't, but I won't tell someone else they can't. I might call 'em names for going there, behind their backs of course.
But, in the end, it's their money and the owner's land to make money as he sees fit with.And, if you quote me "ethics" as a reason, there are people in this country who think it's UNethical to hunt anything any where. That's the "E" in PETA, ya know. Where do we draw the line on restrictions?
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Let me rephrase then, maybe not outlawed, but make it illegal to advertise them as "hunting" in any way shape form or fashion because it ISN'T hunting. It's shooting. I've seen a bunch of those canned operations and they flat out sicken me. The animals, like you stated MCgunner, were all pretty much tame and you could literally pet a lot of them. These are some of the same operations that Keith advertises on his show that is named after this site btw.
MCgunner
Member
Well, yeah, that would be false advertizing.
I was on that ranch all day still hunting, took my last hog in the late evening. Man, come sundown, they ALL came out of the woodwork, HUNDREDS of 'em. That was kinda cool. But, I was looking for one I'd shot when a red stag walked within yards of me looking for me to hand him a treat.
LITERALLY, the thing was coming to me so close I think I might have petted him. I was in my leafy wear camo which I'd just bought from Cabelas. Why? Because I could. LOL! Anyway, I see this big curly horned Aoudad or some such ram thing walking down the trail. I stood still in the trail to see if he'd notice me in the camo. He walks up, sniffs my crotch, curled his nose up, turned around and walked off. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
I still liked killin' the pigs, though. You'd walk around kicking brush and once in a while, they'd all fly out. You'd have to shoot 'em on the run. I nailed one right off, took one around noon, then the one near sunset. I was shooting a rifle, but probably would have been more appropriately armed with buckshot. LOLThat place, in no way, though, is what Art's talking about. I've never been on one of those big ranches like the 777 or the YO.
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Texas entered the Union from independent status as a republic and retained ownership of all its lands. We went through the homesteading thing, and the state government traded land for money. To the railroads for construction, and for the XIT Ranch, to build the capitol. For all practical purposes, there just ain't enough public land to matter. The western states are entirely different, but at least the Forest Service, the BLM and USF&WS don't pester us.
The bottom line is that while game animals are owned by the state government, their management as to habitat and fencing is strictly a private thing. The state doesn't tell some idiot goat-rancher that his pastures are over-goated to the detriment of the wildlife, nor spend money on habitat improvement. The big-money boys commonly pool for their own wildlife biologists, among other costs. And, botanists with wildlife expertise for range improvement.
Harking back to an earlier comment, I doubt that there would be genetic problems in a whitetail deer herd within these very large tracts. Assuming some normal carrying capacity on a per-section basis, the population would be quite sizable. As noted before, the whitetail inherently lives in a rather small "home turf".
The bottom line is that while game animals are owned by the state government, their management as to habitat and fencing is strictly a private thing. The state doesn't tell some idiot goat-rancher that his pastures are over-goated to the detriment of the wildlife, nor spend money on habitat improvement. The big-money boys commonly pool for their own wildlife biologists, among other costs. And, botanists with wildlife expertise for range improvement.
Harking back to an earlier comment, I doubt that there would be genetic problems in a whitetail deer herd within these very large tracts. Assuming some normal carrying capacity on a per-section basis, the population would be quite sizable. As noted before, the whitetail inherently lives in a rather small "home turf".
MCgunner
Member
There are no high fences, to my knowledge, on the King and the Kenedy. They're so big, it'd be a huge waste of money, and yet these ranches are very successfully managed commercial hunting operations. they even have exotics down there without high fences...well, Nilgai anyway. If I ever have the cash, I'd like to hunt a blue bull some day. At least I don't have to draw for permission like elk in New Mexico. :rolleyes; Money talks, BS walks.
kyle1974
Member
They both have high fences. Usually they're put up when there is a bad neighbor. The king has a lot of small ranches all around it, if they know that someone is running day hunts off a neighboring pasture, or just shooting a ridiculous amount of deer, they will run a couple miles of high fence to cut the movement off from that area.
In the grand scheme of things it's low fence though. The king is well over 800,000 acres. The Kennedy is several hundred thousand, but much of it is leased out in pastures that are a few thousand to 20 thousand acres.... An they're both insanely expensive. The king requires a biologist for every pasture leased, and basically puts the pasture up to the highest bidder when one comes open. If you want to lease a pasture on the king, better have a couple hundred thousand laying around.
Nilgai are relatively cheap to hunt down there. I think it's a daily guide fee of 300-500 a day, with a kill fee of a few hundred for a cow and 1200-1500 for a bull.
In the grand scheme of things it's low fence though. The king is well over 800,000 acres. The Kennedy is several hundred thousand, but much of it is leased out in pastures that are a few thousand to 20 thousand acres.... An they're both insanely expensive. The king requires a biologist for every pasture leased, and basically puts the pasture up to the highest bidder when one comes open. If you want to lease a pasture on the king, better have a couple hundred thousand laying around.
Nilgai are relatively cheap to hunt down there. I think it's a daily guide fee of 300-500 a day, with a kill fee of a few hundred for a cow and 1200-1500 for a bull.
MCgunner
Member
This is what I've understood. Hell, ya can't take it with ya, right? And, I mean, cheaper than booking an elk hunt anywhere. Ever check the prices on the Jicarilla Reservation in New Mexico?
Nilgai hunting here is NOT pet shooting, it's real hunting. These are wild animals with lots of room to roam.kyle1974
Member
Those nilgai are wild as ?!|{ down there. It's a safari style hunt, then spot and stalk the last few
Hundred yards. Usually it's a one day hunt but really fun all the same.
Elk hunt is on my bucket list for sure.
Hundred yards. Usually it's a one day hunt but really fun all the same.
Elk hunt is on my bucket list for sure.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
One of the reasons I harp on terrain and vegetation as to hunting style is an article from one of the hunting/fishing magazines from fifty years back. Field & Stream; one of those.
The wildlife folks in Michigan put a high fence around 100 acres of forest. They did a deer census, and apparently figured the number was about right for the habitat. They then controlled hunter access. The success rate ran some two or three percent. It was all sneaky-snaking or just sitting. No stands. IOW, some places are just really hard to hunt.
In today's world, hunting styles absolutely must change because we have become an urbanized society. From the standpoint of a percentage of all hunters, few have the stalking skills to hunt in what many of us here consider to be a traditional manner. How many of you who read this started "running the brush" at age six or seven? Spend many a day outdoors in hunting country, with "many" being sixty or more days a year?
I don't have to be overjoyed at these changes, but they're part of modern reality.
Changes? Sixty-five years ago I could carry fence pliers and staples in my saddle bags, ride from ranch to ranch and camp out for two or three days and not have any hassle from the ranchers. And this was but a few miles outside of Austin, Texas.
The wildlife folks in Michigan put a high fence around 100 acres of forest. They did a deer census, and apparently figured the number was about right for the habitat. They then controlled hunter access. The success rate ran some two or three percent. It was all sneaky-snaking or just sitting. No stands. IOW, some places are just really hard to hunt.
In today's world, hunting styles absolutely must change because we have become an urbanized society. From the standpoint of a percentage of all hunters, few have the stalking skills to hunt in what many of us here consider to be a traditional manner. How many of you who read this started "running the brush" at age six or seven? Spend many a day outdoors in hunting country, with "many" being sixty or more days a year?
I don't have to be overjoyed at these changes, but they're part of modern reality.
Changes? Sixty-five years ago I could carry fence pliers and staples in my saddle bags, ride from ranch to ranch and camp out for two or three days and not have any hassle from the ranchers. And this was but a few miles outside of Austin, Texas.
BKDinTexas
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Lest anyone misunderstand my position, let me clarify. I have no problem with high fences, per se. And I have no problem with pay hunting.
I would hunt a high-fenced ranch that was sufficiently large enough that I felt it was fair chase. I would pay for the privilege if I wanted it bad enough.
Until 5 years ago, I was on a large South Texas deer lease (low fence) in Uvalde County for 20 years straight. It was not cheap. I paid dearly to hunt there, because it was a priority for me at that time.
The cost of quality whitetail hunting has now gone beyond my current means. Too bad for me. I don't begrudge others who can afford it, in fact I somewhat envy them.
What I dislike, is capturing a state resource, that is owned by the people of Texas, for someone's exclusive use and profit. Just because a ranch is huge, doesn't make it better, in my eyes. You have still "trapped" a state resource, and should either release it, or pay the state for it. If you choose to pay for it, it's yours to do with as you will. I belive that's pretty conservative, if not libertarian stance.
My suggestion would never happen in the current Texas political climate. I know that. I thought we were just offering thoughts on the concept here. My thoughts, and worth what you paid for them.
I would hunt a high-fenced ranch that was sufficiently large enough that I felt it was fair chase. I would pay for the privilege if I wanted it bad enough.
Until 5 years ago, I was on a large South Texas deer lease (low fence) in Uvalde County for 20 years straight. It was not cheap. I paid dearly to hunt there, because it was a priority for me at that time.
The cost of quality whitetail hunting has now gone beyond my current means. Too bad for me. I don't begrudge others who can afford it, in fact I somewhat envy them.
What I dislike, is capturing a state resource, that is owned by the people of Texas, for someone's exclusive use and profit. Just because a ranch is huge, doesn't make it better, in my eyes. You have still "trapped" a state resource, and should either release it, or pay the state for it. If you choose to pay for it, it's yours to do with as you will. I belive that's pretty conservative, if not libertarian stance.
My suggestion would never happen in the current Texas political climate. I know that. I thought we were just offering thoughts on the concept here. My thoughts, and worth what you paid for them.
RevGeo
Member
I've got nothing against private property rights. Hell, I have 5 acres of God's country myself here in the Idaho panhandle. Not much, but it's mine..for now.
I do see myself as a steward of this tiny spot. I know I don't really own it, I just have control of it until I sell it, I die and my kids get it or whatever might happen in the future. But I am very supportive of large tracts of public land set aside for the use and enjoyment of the people. Many ranchers have leases on BLM land where they can run their stock, but most, if not all of it, is accessible (free of charge!) for hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, rock hounding etc.
I would surely hate to see the large tracts of national forest, state and BLM land be sold off to individuals. Maybe that is a socialist idea to some people, but so be it. Just because one is an outdoorsman doesn't mean he necessarily has 'conservative values' that are defined by others. But I know better than to let this fine conversation degrade into a political argument as a result of voicing my views in that respect.
Texas is what it is and Idaho is what it is. I live in Idaho because I love what it is. I know that I can get up in the morning and literally walk from my house to large tracts of accessible land and hunt or hike or trap or fish or just sit under a tree and relax. I'm pretty sure that situation will stay the same for the remainder of my life and for that I am forever grateful.
I believe a lot of people came to this country primarily to get away from areas of Europe and Asia where all of the land was held by wealthy land owners with strong political connections. They came here precisely because they could enjoy the freedom of movement and opportunity with no one to tell them otherwise. The idea of large tracts of land set aside for multiple use by the public is as American as apple pie. I, for one, hope it remains that way. But in areas where most of the land is privately held we should be glad, as hunters, that some if it is managed for game. Even if we have to pay for it.
To each his own..at least for now.
George
I do see myself as a steward of this tiny spot. I know I don't really own it, I just have control of it until I sell it, I die and my kids get it or whatever might happen in the future. But I am very supportive of large tracts of public land set aside for the use and enjoyment of the people. Many ranchers have leases on BLM land where they can run their stock, but most, if not all of it, is accessible (free of charge!) for hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, rock hounding etc.
I would surely hate to see the large tracts of national forest, state and BLM land be sold off to individuals. Maybe that is a socialist idea to some people, but so be it. Just because one is an outdoorsman doesn't mean he necessarily has 'conservative values' that are defined by others. But I know better than to let this fine conversation degrade into a political argument as a result of voicing my views in that respect.
Texas is what it is and Idaho is what it is. I live in Idaho because I love what it is. I know that I can get up in the morning and literally walk from my house to large tracts of accessible land and hunt or hike or trap or fish or just sit under a tree and relax. I'm pretty sure that situation will stay the same for the remainder of my life and for that I am forever grateful.
I believe a lot of people came to this country primarily to get away from areas of Europe and Asia where all of the land was held by wealthy land owners with strong political connections. They came here precisely because they could enjoy the freedom of movement and opportunity with no one to tell them otherwise. The idea of large tracts of land set aside for multiple use by the public is as American as apple pie. I, for one, hope it remains that way. But in areas where most of the land is privately held we should be glad, as hunters, that some if it is managed for game. Even if we have to pay for it.
To each his own..at least for now.
George
rbernie
Contributing Member
But it doesn't need to be.
I hunt on a high fence ranch (actually, an 'uncontrolled' fenced off area of a larger exotic game ranch) that is probably 3000 acres or better. Yes, I hunt exotics - Sika and fallow, mostly. But I do not hunt from a stand and I do not hunt by a feeder. I simply schedule in some time when the ranch has no other activities back in the outback and spend the time on foot. Over the last decade that I've been patronizing this business, I have learned the land in this ranch parcel and the patterns of the animals on that land. This year, I spotted and stalked two fine Sika doe over the course of two days; one day walking and looking and the next day stalking and shooting. I actually expected to have to work more for the harvest, but I got lucky and warm temps and wet conditions caused a blanket of new green growth (this is Texas, after all) that the Sika found too tasty to ignore.
I pay for the kill - just like any other exotic high-fence ranch. But I pay no guide fee, I spend my days on foot, and it's really all up to me to determine success or failure. I also don't have to worry about the slobs next door driving the deer into the adjacent lease, and I don't have to worry about trespassers or 'guests' taking shots while I'm on foot. Most importantly, I am spared the need to spend upward of $5K per year on a deer lease shared with five to eight other folk, all competing over forty-five days worth of hunting time. I have 3000+ acres guaranteed all to myself, and I only pay for a kill.
In a heavily contested hunting area that is predominantly private land, a managed high fence ranch can make a lot of sense.....
kyle1974
Member
BKD.... what about fishing guides? they are making profit on a "resource" on public property, and all they pay is a small guides license fee every year. Should that be outlawed as well?
we're talking about people who own the land making profit on a resource that is on it. We have duck hunters and fishing guides making profit on a public lands resource.
slipperly slope... you sure you want to start sliding?
we're talking about people who own the land making profit on a resource that is on it. We have duck hunters and fishing guides making profit on a public lands resource.
slipperly slope... you sure you want to start sliding?
KodiakBeer
member
None of it should be outlawed and it's silly to even suggest it.
I'm not crazy about the idea of hunting exotics on a fee basis, so I won't do it. I get to spend my money where and how I want to spend it. I'd rather strike out on public land than get stuck in a box on private land for a guaranteed kill. If somebody else feels otherwise it's just a topic of conversation, not a reason to legislate how others spend their money.
I'm not crazy about the idea of hunting exotics on a fee basis, so I won't do it. I get to spend my money where and how I want to spend it. I'd rather strike out on public land than get stuck in a box on private land for a guaranteed kill. If somebody else feels otherwise it's just a topic of conversation, not a reason to legislate how others spend their money.
kyle1974
Member
what does the fence have to do with making a profit from the land? BKD said he thinks someone fencing a ranch and making profits by doing that is wrong.... so it's wrong to sell hunts in a high fence, but OK to sell them on low fence?
I wonder if they had the internet 100 years ago what people would say about barbed wire fences? it's no different now... people used to think they should be able to run their cattle across private land, and when barbed wire fences went up, there were huge fights over it.
now you have people high fencing ranches to protect an investment. There's no issue with it really.
people make money off resources all the time... oil, natural gas, gold.... why are deer so special?
I wonder if they had the internet 100 years ago what people would say about barbed wire fences? it's no different now... people used to think they should be able to run their cattle across private land, and when barbed wire fences went up, there were huge fights over it.
now you have people high fencing ranches to protect an investment. There's no issue with it really.
people make money off resources all the time... oil, natural gas, gold.... why are deer so special?
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d2wing
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It's a difference between livestock and wildlife. Wildlife that is owned and penned is livestock. You may not understand that but is the way others see it. Wild life roams wild and free or it is no longer wild. Not that I object to high fences in your state. I suppose if the area is big enough it's the same experience. I don't know and seem to have trouble explaining it to you. We don't consider deer private property, just the land.
BKDinTexas
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Thank you D2.
Kyle, against my better judgement, I'm going to try one more time.
Fishing guides haven't trapped fish for thier exclusive use. You and I have the same shot at catching that state resource (fish) as the guide does. (Actually you might, I don't have a boat!) I have no problem with someone paying a guide to show them where to catch the fish. But, the fish can swim wherever it wants! It's not trapped in a "fishing pen". Anyone has an equal shot at catching it.
Read this next part carefully. I have no problem with landowners making a money/a profit on selling access to thier land. Indeed, as I stated previously, I paid a lot of money myself for access to a good ranch for twenty years!
All I have a problem with is people trapping deer that belong to "everyone" for their exclusive use. Once a high fence is built the deer can't go anywhere they want. I and others, particulary the neighbors of that property owner have been denied access to that resource. So, I feel the property owner should pay the State (the people really) for those deer, or release them to free range. It's simple really...
Kyle, against my better judgement, I'm going to try one more time.
Fishing guides haven't trapped fish for thier exclusive use. You and I have the same shot at catching that state resource (fish) as the guide does. (Actually you might, I don't have a boat!) I have no problem with someone paying a guide to show them where to catch the fish. But, the fish can swim wherever it wants! It's not trapped in a "fishing pen". Anyone has an equal shot at catching it.
Read this next part carefully. I have no problem with landowners making a money/a profit on selling access to thier land. Indeed, as I stated previously, I paid a lot of money myself for access to a good ranch for twenty years!
All I have a problem with is people trapping deer that belong to "everyone" for their exclusive use. Once a high fence is built the deer can't go anywhere they want. I and others, particulary the neighbors of that property owner have been denied access to that resource. So, I feel the property owner should pay the State (the people really) for those deer, or release them to free range. It's simple really...
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