High power rifles & IN deer hunting

[redneck2]

We have a new law that allows rifles for deer hunting. The law was (supposedly) written so that only straight wall pistol cartridges could be used. Basically you have to use a round with a case that's minimum 1.16" (.357 mag) but shorter than a typical rifle round.

As with all enterprising Americans, I have a friend that's figured a way around the rules. He's taking a .325 WSSM, bumping the shoulder down a little and blowing out the neck to the .35 caliber minimum bullet size. Nice little short, fat round that gets about 2,800 fps with a 200 grain bullet.

He's having a bolt action rechambered. Trying to get an AR chambered. Deer hunt with a .35 caliber semi-auto EBR. Never thought I'd see it.

 

[mbt2001]

errrr

I don't know enough about the Indiana law to have an opinion... Is this a good thing? Why do they limit what kind of gun you can shoot with when hunting?

 

[savetheclaypigeons]

I wonder what our founding fathers would say to that law. " Ok...but this musket still works just as well " Way to (I think) get around the law. Ought to test it and market it!

 

[Clipper]

I think your friend will find, to his cost, that 'straight-walled' means NO SHOULDER. The WSM and WSSM family of cartridges are all over .35 diameter. That means the case must be bottlenecked, which is the deal-breaker.

BTW, the whole pistol-caliber thinking is that in densely populated areas, a .44mag bullet isn't supposed to carry the range & penetration issues as, say, a .300 mag.

 

[kludge]

The Indiana rules say nothing about "straight walled" pistol cases, in fact .44-40 and .38-40 are legal.

A few week/months ago I was toying with the idea a blowing out a 7.62x39mm case to .35 cal (.358") and I posted an article here in this forum.

Before I went to the expense though, I would have it approved by DNR. The last thing I want is my gun, car, and deer siezed based on my interpretation of the law.

That said, I always have a hard time finding the actual laws, but the text of the publication says "Rifles with pistol cartridges" which I can only assume means that a wildcat rifle cartridge is still a rifle cartridge regardless of whether it meets the standards for bullet size and case length.

What we need is someone to make a "camp carbine" that is chambered for the 10mm Magnum.

 

[rxraptor02]

looking at the PDF for Indiana.

Rifles with pistol cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a min case lenght of 1.16 inches; and have a maximun case length of 1.626 inches.

357mag, 38-40win, 41mag, 41spl, 44mag, 44 spl, 44-40win, 45colt, 454casull, 475 linebaugh, 480 ruger, 50 AE, 500SW.

So if it meets the spec, talk to the DNR and get approval.

On a side note:

The thing that gets me is with the handgun part.
It has the min case lenght of 1.16 inches, but no max lenght. and it says the 35rem is a legal pistol cartridge.

So you can ust a 35rem in a T/C or other custom handgun but not in a lever action rifle.

 

[El Tejon]

A step forward, but we have to get rid of the inane "no centerfire rifle in regular deer season" rule.

red, good luck with your project.

 

[redneck2]

Not my project. My pockets aren't deep enough. Just the reloading dies supposedly cost $700. Trust me, the guys that are doing this understand business and laws real well.

Like I said, the law was written to basically make the pistol cartridges legal due to minimum bore size along with minimum and maximum case length. Doesn't say anything about no bottleneck, although that was the original intent.

Wonder what Mr CO will say when he sees someone walking thru the woods with an AR. Even a bolt would be fine.

FWIW...my friend is going to carry a copy of the regs and calipers to measure the cases.

Supposedly, there is considerable interest in making this a factory round.

 

[kludge]

Wonder what Mr CO will say when he sees someone walking thru the woods with an AR.

I was thinking a Mini-30 in .35x39mm.



But maybe it would be wise to chamber a pistol for the cartridge FIRST, get it published in some gun rag, THEN proceed to make a "Rifle" for a "pistol cartridge."

 

[kludge]

I always have a hard time finding the actual laws.

Found it!

http://www.in.gov/legislative/iac/iac_title?iact=312&iaca=9

Scroll down to page 13.

The actual rule does not say "pistol" cartrige and only defines the dimensions of the case and bullet.

 

[dagger dog]

I think the new law allows for any handgun caliber with sufficient energy to cleanly kill deer to be shot out of shouldered long guns (rifles).
I haven't seen it in print but I would go as far to say that .22 .30 .32 .38 9mm .45 ACP,etc. caliber rounds originaly chambered for automatic pistols would not be legal!
45 Colt or Long Colt which ever you prefer to cal it .44mag .357 mag, 454 Casull 500 S&W chambered in rifles.
or original 44-40 32-20 and some of the other original black powder lever gun - hand gun calibers now loaded to modern smokless powder energies will also be allowed in rifles.

 

[El Tejon]

Dagger, my fellow Hoosier, here it is in print for ya:

"(4) A rifle must:
(A) fire a bullet of three hundred fifty-seven thousandths (.357) of an inch diameter or larger;
(B) have a minimum case length of one and sixteen-hundredths (1.16) inches; and
(C) have a maximum case length of one and six hundred twenty-five thousandths (1.625) inches."

Good grief, Charlie Brown, Indiana has become a wildcatter's paradise.

 

[kludge]

The company that was converting mini-30's to 35 cal no longer does the conversion, but the 7.62x39mm Russian case is 1.524" (max trim length) and a .35 cal rifle bullet is .358".

I wonder if anyone can rechamber/rebarrel an AR-15 upper (which you can already get for 7.62x39mm) for .35x39mm? The dies can't be cheap though.

I image, though that a person would be hounded to death by any DNR officer that saw you out with a AR during deer season. This is why the Mini-30 would be a better choice IMO, it looks more like a hunting rifle.

 

[22-rimfire]

Just remember that laws can be changed again and if a large proportion of shooters try to get around the intent of the law, they will re-write it a bit more focused and exclusionary. All it takes is some votes and some ink.

For my part, they should allow any centerfire rifles with a minimum caliber restriction. And then, they should allow handgun hunters to hunt during black powder season.

States are seeing license sales drop as they increase fees. They see hunting becoming an exclusionary sport based on your financial ability in the form of license fees, leasing land, and so forth. The intent is to increase the number of hunters not reduce the number of hunters and enhance a very traditional sport that is good for most.

 

[dagger dog]

EL,
That puts the kybosh on the 32-20 don't it. Shame cause it and the 25-20 were perfectly capable of taking deer