High Security Gun Safes

[Petropumps]

Hi Guys,
I've been a lurker for quite a while and love the site and I think I've digested about everything here on gun safes...what an amazing amount of knowledge and information!! My question is specifically regarding the higher end safes available. I've evaluated my safety needs and concerns and have decided that a true safe is in order. I've been looking primarily at Graffunder due to their nearly unanimous praise and the obvious attention to detail and craftsmanship. I've also considered Brown but they don't really blow my skirt up, the Amsec RFX and, more recently, the Fort Knox L Series. I know the Fort Knox is a rebranded Inkas but they seem to be very competitively priced for a TL30x6 and you can get them with whatever paint scheme and gun interior you want. SOOOO...my question for you pros is whether the Graffunder can "hang" in the same league as the higher rated UL safes from Amsec and Fort Knox/Inkas in terms of security or is it a substantial step down? I'd be looking at a C-rated Graffunder if I'm keeping the pricing similar in comparison to the larger RFX or the Fort Knox L. I must admit I'm having a bit of a love affair with Graffunder simply due to their craftsmanship but I don't want to short-change myself in terms of security just due to my appreciation for how they're made (although that would probably sway me if it's a close call).

Any thoughts are appreciated and I'm hoping this thread can be as helpful to the next guy as the previous threads have been for me.

Thanks!

 

[a1abdj]

There is a huge difference between a C rate and a safe with a TL rating.

I also wouldn't rule out converting another brand (there are many companies who offer TL rated units), or even a used safe. We just sold a used TRTL30x6 for $8,000 that would have made a heck of a gun safe.

 

[Petropumps]

Thank you a1 for chiming in. After my research and reading many of your threads along with others, I'm sure you're right. As I said, I became enamored with Graffunder and continue to believe they are an excellent safe, but it seems for the money one can get exponentially better security features. Have you (or anyone else) taken a look at the new Fort Knox "L" series safes? It appears they're just rebranded Inkas...possibly the Saturn model. Any experience with Inkas? One can get a fairly decked-out 72x40" L model for around the 8k mark. Seems like a decent option?

 

[joem1945]

Check for safe dealers in you area. I lucked out and found a used money vault at a local dealer. It's big, double door, over 6' high, 35" deep and almost 6' wide. 4000# empty and UL rated fire resistant and burglar resistant. I had to remove all the money drawers and shelves and make the inside for guns. If I could find another I would buy it also.

 

[Petropumps]

Thanks for the thought. I've considered converting something but like the idea of a purpose-built, turn-key unit. Probably me being lazy more than anything. It does seem like more gun safe manufacturers are putting High Security options in their lineup. Would still like to hear a comparison of the Fort Knox L with someone like the Amsec RFX.

 

[a1abdj]

None of the new high security gun safes (not counting the Graffunder) are purpose-built. They are all converted commercial safes. The only difference is that the manufacturer is sending them out with an interior instead of a third party, and perhaps giving it a different paint job than their commercial offerings.

As a general rule the hierarchy of burglary rated safes is: Asian < North American < European / A few exceptions from elsewhere in the world.

 

[Petropumps]

So I would interpret that to say no meaningful difference between Inkas and Amsec, both being North American? Guess at that point it comes down to options and warranty then. Does that sound right?

Thanks again.

 

[a1abdj]

They both make a quality product. We don't see nearly as many Inkas safes as we do AMSEC, but AMSEC is a much larger company with a much wider variety.

 

[otrman]

No matter which safe you go with, don't let it be the only line of defense. Any safe can be opened.

 

[FAS1]

And always leave $100 sitting on top for the common crackhead before he damages anything.

 

[a1abdj]

And always leave $100 sitting on top for the common crackhead before he damages anything.

In change so that they waste their time trying to abscond with it instead of shoving it in their pocket and continuing to attack your safe.

 

[Petropumps]

Good thought on the $100!! I might leave a couple of hundred if it saved them from damaging the finish on my safe. I'm probably overthinking this purchase but that's what I usually do. My biggest concern is that I'm putting this thing in my newly built shop. It's going to be out of the way behind a door but it's still going to be in a place where the thief or thieves will have access to any tool they'd want in order to break in. I'll of course do my best to keep power tools locked up in steel cabinets, the blow torch in pieces, etc. but still...the idea that the safe is out of my house and on its' own out there with all those tools freaks me out a bit.

 

[cdk8]

IMO...

Most of the high-security gun safes come with absolutely beautiful cosmetic finishes, but this usually comes with major price markups over an identical version of the safe that is marketed as a "high security" safe instead of a "high security gun safe". For example, the AmSec HS/RF series is frequently priced $1,000-2,000 more than the AMVAULT in which it is based. Both safes will give the same protection.

Despite having one of the blandest cosmetic finishes, the Brown HD series is very well made and surprisingly affordable. You can get a 20-25 cubic foot HD in TL-15 + fire rating for about $4,500, and in a TL-30 + fire rating for around $6,000-6,500. While they likely do exist, I do not know of any other high-security gun safe that is built to the same quality standards and provides the same level of protection for the same price or less.

Depending on the size of your collection, have you checked out the used safe scene for models that exceed the current criteria but for less money? You can sometimes find used torch-resistant ISMs (and sometimes Tann and Chubb safes) for the same price or less than a new TL-rated gun safe. You would need to customize the interior as they will not be designed for guns, but an ISM or Chubb is a safe that even the most skilled of criminals will struggle with. It can take a little while to find a used safe retailer that has one of those products in stock, but IMHO it's worth the effort, especially if you can get a $15,000-$20,000 safe for less than 1/2 or 1/3 of the original price!!!

For example, this Chubb Trident is arguably one of the finest security products ever made. This company always have interesting things.
http://www.lackasafe.com/products/u...t-5520-trtl30x6-equivalent-high-security-safe

And here is some info on the ISM Super Treasury. Several companies sell used ISM safes.
http://www.empiresafe.com/143/ism_super_treasury_trtl30x6

ISM also makes a safe called the UltraVault, which is a TL-30x6 or TL-60x6. It's a great safe that is capable of withstanding sophisticated powered attacks. If you can find one used, it will probably be much less than most of the high-security gun safes.

 

[cdk8]

As a general rule the hierarchy of burglary rated safes is: Asian < North American < European / A few exceptions from elsewhere in the world.

Don't forget Israel!!!

 

[TBJK]

The best safe it the one you don't see at all. It is better to hide in plain sight. If you're being robbed with you home, they will likely threaten you & your family to get it open. If you are willing, you can put forth the effort to make something blend in & it be safe at the same time.