HK question....

[SSN Vet]

I've had zero experience and just as little interest in HK pistols, but just had the opportunity to fire one this past weekend. So my interest has perked up.

I took my BIL and nephew to the range for some "manly man" time, and fired his duty weapon (state police), an HK .45 USP. I'm not sure what model it is, but after surfing the HK sight, I'd guess it was a straight USP model (no fiber optic front sight or tricked out mag well).

All in all, I was pretty impressed with it. It is obviously intended for serious duty use. Simple, accurately executed manufacturing, no frills, and rugged.

Yet is was also surprisingly light, for a full frame .45, which is why he likes it. He has the option to turn it in for a compact, but has big hands and doesn't want to give up the full size grip.

The gun felt good in my hand, but what really struck me was the trigger mechanism. I'm assuming it was DAO, as the hammer cocked back the same with the first and follow on trigger pulls. It seemed like a long pull, though it was light, then at the end, there was greater resistance and the hammer released.

I pulled this quote off of the HK sight...

The USP can also be converted from one type of trigger firing mode to another. This includes combination double-action and single-action (DA/SA) modes and double action only (DAO) modes.

The USP is available in nine trigger/firing mode configurations and three calibers.

and after doing some searches here, found a reference to a "LEO modified DA trigger"

Can someone familiar with the HK product line explain to me what it was that I had in my hand and what the pros and cons of that type of mechanism are.

It felt unlike any trigger mechanism I've had experience with.

I only shot one 12 rd. mag through it, and that was all slow fire, but am wondering now what the trigger reset would be like for rapid fire.

Inquiring minds want to know

 

[Echo9]

HK's LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) trigger is double action only, with a long but comparatively light pull. Once the shot breaks and the slide cycles while the trigger is still depressed, it'll have a very short reset allowing for quick follow up shots.

 

[benderx4]

Welcome to the "dark side" and the world of HK!

Sounds like you were shooting the HK USP45 with the LEM trigger. (Law Enforcement Modification.) This trigger is similar to, but still different, than the DAK or LDA triggers found on a Sig or other brands. It is DAO, and I'm sure the gun you handled had no safety and/or decocker. (Standard for LE)

The LEM trigger from HK can come in either "standard" (8-9 pound pull) or "light" (4-5 pound pull.) Both triggers work the exact same way, there are just two different weight springs involved.

Once cocked, the mainspring is pre-cocked, and will be pre-cocked after every cycling. This allows for an initial "long" but light and steady pull with just a slight stacking prior to the sear being released. If you held the trigger back at this point, and then slowly released it forward, you would see what an incredibly short reset this LEM trigger has. So follow up shots, have the same light steady pull, but they are MUCH shorter.

The one exception would be where the hammer falls on a light/defective primer - at this point, the LEM trigger allows for a second strike capability, but this pull would be in the 14 pound range since the trigger would then also have to cock the mainspring.

Out of my dozen HKs, I've got 3 with this LEM trigger system. I'm still a fan of SA/DA, but the more I shoot the LEMs, the more I grow found of them. A lot of HK fans will purchase nothing but an HK with LEM. Obviously, the advantages/disadvantages will depend on the application of your weapon.

Carry? LEM is awesome, pretty much what all LEOs use. (Although there are still plenty of folks out there that "grew up" with 1911s and still like to carry "cocked and locked".) A couple of the other HK trigger configurations allow for this as well. FFDOs also carry an HK with LEM trigger in our nations airline cockpits.

Range? HK also makes a "match trigger" which is standard on several models, Elite, Expert, Tactical, to name a few. The single action pull on this particular trigger is very sweet and approaches the crispness of a 1911.

Home Defense? Kids around? Probably want an external safety which is not available with the LEM trigger. (normally)

Car gun? Again, I think the LEM trigger is perfect for this application. Most scenarios I see in the car involve me just grabbing the gun (perhaps without looking), and just pulling the trigger. (Plus I wouldn't want external levers that could get caught up on holster, glovebox, clothing, etc.)

So again, depending on the use, I think the LEM is outstanding for some applications, but not so much in others.

P.S. There is one model HK makes called the USP Combat Competition. It comes standard with fiber optic sights, jet funnel, AND something called a match/LEM hybrid trigger. This particular trigger is an LEM trigger made with match trigger parts, and is made for IDPA and other competitive applications (hence the name.) These guns are very popular and very rare - it took me a year to find my first one. BUT, the trigger, oh the trigger, is a thing of beauty and amazement. Well, worth the effort!

Hope this helps!

 

[SSN Vet]

thanks for the replies...

sounds like it was an LEM trigger that I shot...

but it was much less than 4# on the take up... I'd say it broke at 4to 5#.

The transition from take up to sear break felt odd to me... but that's likely just not being familiar with it. I wish I had rattled off a few so I could experience that short reset. I'll keep that in mind for next time...

We talked about double strike capabilities and he has been trained to go straight into tap-rack-bang and not to go for the second tap.

Interesting piece.... I'm glad I got to shoot it.

OBTW... he was very enamored with my Colt Commander and the whole SAO trigger concept, which he was not familiar with.

Funny how we are often intrigued by the things we are not as familiar with.

 

[CPshooter]

H&Ks are nice guns for sure! The best IMO.. I have a P2000sk 9mm with the lighter (5.5lbs) LEM trigger. It came from the factory as a V2/LEM with a 8-9lbs pull, but after simply swapping out two springs (trigger return spring and the firing pin block safety spring), I converted it to the lighter "V1" LEM pull (not to be confused with the V1 USP which is DA/SA with a safety/decock lever). Both springs can be purchased directly from H&K for around $15 shipped.

I love the LEM for concealed carry, as I don't think safeties are necessary if the gun is going to stay in a holster on your hip.

The LEM feels strange at first, but becomes very natural after a box or two of ammo. I shoot my P2000sk with LEM significantly better than I did the single action trigger on the USPc I just sold. That's not to say I don't like SA triggers, but the LEM is just really easy to shoot once you get used to it.

Like benderx4 said, "welcome to the dark side." Be careful though! H&Ks tend to multiply and they aren't cheap guns. However, once you own one and start to get spoiled by their insane reliability and rugged build quality, you'll feel like you got your money's worth.

 

[Jason_G]

Hey SSN Vet,

I don't know if you are in the market for buying a USP45 or not, but if you are thinking about it, I just wanted to be sure that you knew that the LEM and the original DAO models are not the same thing. The trigger pull on the original double action USPs (I think it was Variant 7 or 8 or something) is pretty bad. Not quite Sigma bad, but close. If you decide you want to get a USP, I would look at the LEM or the DA/SA (variant 1).

Jason

 

[SSN Vet]

Great replies.... thanks again...

I can't justify the coin to purchase an HK... I'm dumping all my available resources into gunsmithing tools and 1911 parts to feed my latest fetish.

But I've learned something new and now have an appreciation for them.