HK USP 45 vs. Glock 21

[jackpinesavages]

The Glock is a better work/range gun.


The HK is a great collector/range gun.

I have several 21s, and no HKs.

My range/collector guns are 1911s and other Limited class pistolas...

 

[Hk Dan]

Agreed. I have owned both guns, and still have the HK USP45. Both are accurate and ultra reliable, but the GLOCK is simpler. Don't make the mistake of thinking that means "More robust"; it doesn't. The HK is a tank.

Yiou can buy one used for about $500 if you look! I'[d go with the HK (and I did). It will not survive in competitions withthe GLOCK, but that isn't what it was designed for. It will bring you home from a critical dynamic incident if you do your part. It's a combat handgun, pure and simple.

 

[HKGuns]

Not to suggest that you should just stick to things you understand, but my USP came with plastic magazines.

Good, because you're out of your league.

No it didn't. They are Steel, always have been steel. The only way you bought a USP with plastic mags is you bought a used pistol and someone dealt you some cheap aftermarket magazines in the deal. Oh yes, and the feed ramps are not razor sharp.

When the extractor flew off of my P7M8, I couldn't find one of the "widely available" replacements you mentioned.

With a lifetime warranty that is what you should have done in the first place. HK CS typically just takes care of you because their pistols don't break very often. But since you're feeling froggy, here are three sites that took me all of thirty seconds to find that have extractors for the P7M8 in stock and ready to ship.

P7M8 Extractor 1 - $39.95

Oh my word -MIDWAY USA for just $27.99 now that was hard to find

Numrich, I'd never think of looking there for gun parts? huh? $46.75



What else?

 

[balance 740]

The USP .45 and Compact models use metal mags. The full-size 9mm and .40cal USP models use polymer mags.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235448/hk-magazine-hk-usp-9mm-luger-15-round-polymer-black

EDIT: I just noticed that Jason G already explained this.

 

[el Godfather]

For regular use with due cleaning and not dragging the pistols through mud and sand, HK USP 45. However, you are into those torture tests then may be G21 will come on the top. I have had both. Now the only 45 in polymer I have is MK23. Big, but it will kick any other pistol's behind any day of the week in any endurance test. Apart from that, I am a firm believer in 1911 when it comes to 45, or any good single stack like 220 elite. I am done with double column 45s.

 

[jackpinesavages]

..."double column 45s."



Really?

 

[ColColt]

For reliability and longevity, I wouldn't trade one USP-C or HK45 Compact for five Glocks.

 

[grayhambone]

I'm not going to chime in on the :banghead:, but I will say you have to buy what's comfortable. IDK the weight difference but for me, the controls on the glock are simple and nothing but point and shoot. hk is a good weapon with more levers and such. I only a many of glocks and no HK even though HK are good guns. Local pd just went from the usp to the glock

 

[psyopspec]

No it didn't. They are Steel, always have been steel. The only way you bought a USP with plastic mags is you bought a used pistol and someone dealt you some cheap aftermarket magazines in the deal. Oh yes, and the feed ramps are not razor sharp.

They were plastic. They were HK. They were 9mm. Facts is facts, sir.

Good find on the extractor. 6 years ago I can assure you that wasn't the case, and 6 years ago was when I was looking to fix it.

I fully maintain that neither is a bad choice, but it does come down to individual preference. I'm not attacking HK, nor am I going after Glock. Just the brand elitism that causes internet commandos to say a brand is crap when the balance of experience and evidence demonstrates otherwise.

 

[HKGuns]

Thanks for the correction...You learn something every day. I've never owned a full size USP, only compacts and other varieties. Every other HK magazine I've touched had been steel.

My appologies psy, it would appear you were indeed correct and I was wrong on the polymer full size USP's.

 

[psyopspec]

Came back to edit my post RE metal or plastic: Who cares, as long is it works (and both do). Seeing your reply, you're right - this ain't worth having a pissing contest over. Thanks for being high road.

Sorry to the OP for having a hand in derailing your thread.

 

[Feanor]

You\'re certainly long on opinion and short on facts. You should stick to things you understand before making yourself look foolish by posting all of this nonsense.

gLoCk = Plastic guide rod - Plastic sights - Plastic magazines - crap trigger and numerous problems with the new \"generation\" - Produced by a curtain rod MFG - \"One\" action and trigger alternative unless you\'re a NYC cop - Highest number of ND\'s of any pistol ever produced, because of their appeal to the lowest common denominator and least experienced shooters. - Grip angle unlike any other Auto pistol on the market - Ergonomics of a brick.

HK = Steel guide rod - Steel sights - Reliable, high quality steel magazines - Lots of trigger and action alternatives. No problems with their new generation of pistols - Produced by a Military firearms MFG with a long history of producing high quality rifles and pistols. Parts are readily available as well. -Grip angle consistent with every other auto pistol on the market with the exception of gLoCk - Ergonomics far exceed that of most other pistols on the market today - Controls are well placed and easily reached.

Please, define for the board, what ergonomics means? Then, explain to my foolish self exactly what about the HK45 is ergonomically superior to the G21? Explain if you will, how ten rounds in a bigger overall pkg is superior to 13 in a smaller one? Explain to the board how it is that you have concluded that HKs universally despised trigger is in any way superior to that of the iconic Glock trigger which is carried by 70% of American LE, and far more Nato nations than the HK? Further, cite a reputable source that substantiates your wild claim that Glock is the all time leader in ND?

You cannot answer any of this rationally, because its all rooted in emotion, and hyperbole. The HK45 is a ridiculously oversized pistol, it has terrible ergonomics, a trigger that sucks, oversized controls that jut out into the shooters hand, and a manual of arms far more complex. Your claim that parts are not an issue is wholly fallacious, as the average person will spend about two weeks(minimum)in obtaining them, while Glock parts can almost certainly be had in 24 hours or less. Also, the HK has significantly more parts to replace(well over fifty)to the Glocks 34.

 

[GLOOB]

For reliability and longevity, I wouldn't trade one USP-C or HK45 Compact for five Glocks

The projected longevity of my G21 has never kept me up at night. If I was trying to wear it out, I'd have to sell the other four to buy more ammo.

Both are accurate and ultra reliable, but the GLOCK is simpler. Don't make the mistake of thinking that means "More robust"; it doesn't.

I'm sure the HK would also wear a hole in your wallet before you ever wore it out. Longevity was never a question in my mind. Both guns are indeed tanks.

The extra controls are just not appealing to everyone. The levers opens up the possibility for user-induced stoppages. That outweighs the benefits for some of us.

 

[ColColt]

You guys complaining about too many controls on the HK apparently have never owned a 3rd Gen S&W...they're about the same with safety/decocking lever-just like the HK USP in V1. I've had both and it doesn't take a master's degree pistolero to figure it out. It's what you're familiar with or are willing to learn.

 

[GLOOB]

You're right, I've never owned a 3rd gen Smith auto. But are you sure they're the same? The one's I've seen have a safety/decocker that is more similar to the slide-mounted Beretta 92 (which is excellent placement, IMHO). When off, that lever is high up and out of the way.

The USP decocker is frame-mounted quite low. Anyone that shoots a 1911 or otherwise keeps their thumb high may quite easily find their thumb on top of that lever. From there, it doesn't take much movement at all to disconnect the trigger.

I'm sure I would I'd be just fine with the controls if it hadn't happened to me, twice. Once during a 5 shot competition - after becoming aware of my own issue with it and actively trying to avoid it, I still didn't make it through 5 shots when it counted. More training to prevent the gun from stopping? Yeah, I'm perfectly ok with that for an $800 range toy. Which is what this gun would be relegated to for ME. I hold my pistols with a high thumb. I hold my revolvers with a low thumb (and sometimes even mess this up. Darn those Smith cylinder releases are sharp!). When a gun doesn't work for me, I tend to avoid it. There are too many other good choices out there.

 

[Jason_G]

The USP's manual of arms for the V1 (decocker + safety control lever on left side) is very easy to learn. It's just like a 1911, except you can go all the way down with the lever to decock. The only bad things about the lever are that it can make it hard for some shooters with big hands to find a comfortable placement for their thumb (for righties), and that some heavy-handed shooters might go too far when disengaging the safety, decocking the weapon. Still haven't figured that one out, since you have to go through a positive tactile stop before decocking, but I have heard a few guys complain about it, so it must be an issue for some folks.

ETA: I wouldn't ride my thumb on the safety, as GLOOB mentioned. Not on this weapon. I do with 1911s. With the USP, my thumb is right underneath the lever.

Jason

 

[Bovice]

The only extra "lever" the HK would have over the glock is the decocker/safety. In terms of operating the gun, you can ignore the hammer. It isn't some huge extra learning stretch.

Notions that the HK is a collector's range gun are hilarious. People don't make torture videos of their USPs because they are expensive, it is not because the gun can't handle it. If you don't HAVE to submit your $1000 handgun to drops from an airplane, sand burials, long term salt water exposure, or a stint as an improvised ball peen hammer, WHY WOULD YOU? I wouldn't do it to a G21 either because I don't abuse my belongings or anyone else's.

Buy whatever you want, neither gun is going to do you wrong.

 

[Lee D]

im not a fan of HK triggers, so personally id go Glock. i own a 21 w/nitesights and absolutely love it. 100% reliable fom the day i bought it, and at night its very comforting to have 14 rds of .45 within reach.

 

[jolly roger]

Parts are readily available? That's good to know since I DO like HK. But the main reason we left HK and went to G21SFs and 30s in my department was the utterly lousy customer service from HK and abysmal parts delivery times. Maybe things have changed in about 2 years.

G21 for me. I am NOT a Glock fanboy but the fact is they shoot very well and are ridiculously easy to fully maintain. Parts are no issue at all. Customer service has been top rate also.

 

[GLOOB]

The only bad things about the lever are... that some heavy-handed shooters might go too far when disengaging the safety, decocking the weapon.

Nope. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. The DA trigger pull is sweet, anyway. The bigger issue is that during shooting, the recoil of the weapon can shift your thumb, disengaging the trigger, entirely. You pull the trigger and nothing happens. You cannot easily tell by the feel of the trigger, either. It still has a lot of resistance. So you aim, squeeze, and squeeze some more, waiting for a bang that never comes. What do you think this does to a split time? This is worse than a dud primer. If you're used to riding the safety on a 1911 or otherwise using a high thumb hold, this can easily occur.

If this has never happened to you, I suggest you practice making it happen. That way you won't lose 3 seconds the first time it happens to you at an inopportune moment. Cuz it causes quite a "what the heck!?" moment.

 

[Jason_G]

Nope. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. The DA trigger pull is sweet, anyway. The bigger issue is that during shooting, the recoil of the weapon can shift your thumb, disengaging the trigger, entirely. You pull the trigger and nothing happens. You cannot easily tell by the feel of the trigger, either. It still has a lot of resistance. So you aim, squeeze, and squeeze some more, waiting for a bang that never comes. What do you think this does to a split time? This is worse than a dud primer. If you're used to riding the safety on a 1911 or otherwise using a high thumb hold, this can easily occur.

If this has never happened to you, I suggest you practice making it happen. That way you won't lose 3 seconds the first time it happens to you at an inopportune moment. Cuz it causes quite a "what the heck!?" moment.

Yes, you're right. If you ride the lever, you are asking for it. Like I said, thumb goes under the lever when I shoot the USP in V1. If you do that, it should never be an issue. Different feel than the 1911, and to be honest, I have to remind myself when I shoot the USP to put my thumb under, which is one of the reasons I don't shoot it much anymore.


Jason

 

[sargents1]

If I were choosing between a G21 and an HK USP 45, I would take the Glock.

More bullets, less weight. Better aftermarket support, cheaper mags.

Accuracy, overall size, and functionality should be about equal with each.

For me, the kicker is that the Glock is only a 115$ barrel, and a 20$ magazine away from running 10mm, or .40S&W or .357 Sig. Like I said, better aftermarket...


That's my .02$

(and I think H&K is overpriced, which turns me off on general principle...Even if I have the funds.)

 

[12131]

OP, if you have the chance, go to a range and rent and try both guns out and determine for yourself which one suits you best. They are both great guns, but one might be better for you.

 

[Fiv3r]

I'd go with whatever you shoot best For me the G21 is pretty my favorite handgun. Not because its a glock or supposedly stands up to more abuse. I just shoot it better. I've also grown accustomed not fiddling with levers and safeties. Absolutely nothing wrong with those manual of arms. I just prefer my glock
Both are fine weapons. Good luck. Maybe buy both eventually

 

[greenlion]

If you want to spend a little money and get a great gun, get the GLOCK. If you want to spend a lot of money and get a great gun, Get the HK.