Hodgdon's Triple 7 - Rusting Experiment

[P95Carry]

Impressive!! Could you assess the relative humidity at all during this time? Be interesting to know cos that is of course usually the deciding factor with corrosion issues (or lack of!).

I know what you mean re having to be ''in the mood'' to shoot BP guns - well, front-stuffers anyways. Sometimes it is just too much hassle - other times, it just rocks.

I think I'm just addicted to firearms of all sorts, now.

It happens!!

 

[Kramer Krazy]

According to this website:

http://www.cityrating.com/cityhumidity.asp?City=Greenville

The average relative humidity around here is...

1) 51% in the afternoons (76% in the mornings) during February.
2) 50% in the afternoons (76% in the mornings) during March.
3) 48% in the afternoons (78% in the mornings) during April.

I shot this gun in the afternoons and early evenings, typically.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx KK - sorta moderate levels. I think corrosion really gets going worse when levels reach 75% and up - dew point gets lower and then guns can ''sweat''. I think this was very much in your favor but nonetheless - interesting results.

 

[Hellgate]

KK,
You never said what model of gun it was: Colt or Remington. If it is shooting real high there are some things that are easy to do for some models. Email me and I'll tell you what I have done for some navies & Army Colt's revolvers that shot high.

 

[DrLaw]

Rusting with Pyrodex

I have been looking through the threads about rust with Pyrodex. I have not used it before. I did pick up a pound recently which I intended to use when my BP ran out. Now, after looking through a few threads, I wonder now if I did a smart thing.

Recently shooting my Uberti 1860, it has taken me a day or two before I clean it. I use Bore Butter atop the charges and it seems that I have a layer of grease on my gun after shooting. I also have not seen any rust after the gun sat a day or two by the time I cleaned it. I have not seen rust on it after cleaning or any signs of it.

How would that work with Pyrodex, leaving it a day or two before cleaning?
Our humidity here is about medium generally.

The Doc is out now and wondering.

 

[floridaboy]

Last fall I used 777 for the first time in my in-line muzzle loader, a stainless Knight .50 I fired one shot to empty it, went home and forgot to clean it for about 3 weeks. While my barrel didn;t rust, I too had to replace the nipple. Now this is in central Florida, and about 10 miles from the ocean, so humidity does tend to run high. Maybe it's the cap (Remington) that causes that rust?

 

[Ed Gallop]

Looks like I'll have to get some tripple 7. Although I use black powder almost exclusively because I like the smoke, smell, and authenticity, even if the fouling does slow me down. Pyrodex isn't much difference but I still prefer black powder. However, there are times when I would sacrafice authenticity when I want to continue firing my revolver but the residue builds up too much. Be nice to have it on hand.

I don't mind cleaning after shooting. If I didn't clean right away I might forget to do it later. With a non fouling powder like 777 it might be more tempting not to clean. The main reason though, for me, would be less fouling while shooting.

As for running short on black powder... I buy it from Graf & Sons and it isn't that costly. They didn't have priming powder though, so I am out of that. I poke a little fff into the vent for less misfires. Thought about running ff through the coffee grinder. ;-) Just kidding of course. Might add a little punch to the coffee taste though. I'm sure there is an alternative primer powder with the flash and smoke. I have a lot to learn. Ed.

 

[mec]

I've gone two or three days between thourough cleaning with pyrodex- out of town trips/camping, etc. What I do is wipe down with oil including the barrel and chambers unless I just leave the chambers loaded. No rust.

 

[DrLaw]

Thanks, MEC

Puts me a little more at ease. Found this site by accident and it has been a windfall of information for me.

The Doc is out now.

 

[mykeal]

I shoot 777 almost exclusively now. It is easier to clean than real bp and much easier to clean than Pyrodex, although I understand that Pyrodex has gotten better lately (last time I used it was several years ago).

To those of you trying 777 for the first time: reduce your loads by 15% by volume from your best real bp load. 777 is significantly hotter than real bp. I believe this is the reason for some of the reports of lack of accuracy with 777.

Yes, it produces a nice, big cloud of smoke. It does not, however, smell the same as real bp. For that reason I have occasionally been know to pound out a few cylinders of Goex. Just to get back to basics, so to speak.

And I always clean the same day or at worst the next day, regardless of which propellant I use. Some habits are hard to break. I also open a jar of Hoppe's No. 9 and set it on the bench. I don't use it on any bp guns, but, well, I just like the smell. Somehow it just feels right, kind of like back many years ago when I got my first gun...

 

[DrLaw]

Cleaning time

Well, generally, I try to clean the same day after shooting. However, I have been very busy lately with home and work, and the result has been that in the past couple seeks, it has taken me a day or two to get to the gun. I sneak off from work or home to snap off about 18 shots or so (before fouling messes things up) just to relieve a little frustration of the day at work (meth makes such wonderful clientele now that a lot of them have minds wrecked by the stuff, paranoid schizophrenics to whom the word "No" means nothing :banghead: and with a high-school dropout education they absolutely, positively know ALL the law as opposed to a lawyer practicing for 25 years ). Nice to have a gun club just a half-mile outside of town.

It's nice to have one less worry of knowing that my gun will not get pitted with rust in a couple days.

Thanks for the info.

The Doc is out now. (and slightly vented )

 

[RockRifle]

Triple 7 vs. Black

I had good luck with 777 thru my caplock until a xmas turkey shoot a couple years back. Seems I got a bad lot and wasn't getting consistant shots. I have since been shooting a flintlock and have stayed with the bp due to the lower flashpoint of traditional powder and open ignition.

My finding with 777 was this... If is gets wet, it turns to mud. Black Powder can be dried out if it gets wet.

777 is a little hotter, pressure wise, and a colder, ignition wise than BP. I think a load would store well as long as it didn't get contaminated my any lube in the rifle. (or pistol) In a pistol, I would use beeswax to seal around the ball for long term storage.

It seems that I have read about BP storing for 40-50 years without firing as long as it was loaded correctly. Seems that Jefferson Davis' son received a rifle handed down years after the Civil War that was loaded all that time and it still worked fine. Seems that it was the water and the BP that was a corrosive issue. Keep the water out, and you can store almost indefinitely.(but don't quote me on that, I haven't tried it!)

In the winter time, I have observed my flinter drawing heavy moisture between shots in a string. BP can actually be wet in the pan and will still flash. I can't Imagine running a string of shots with 777 in that situation. my $.02...

 

[Gewehr98]

P99guy, to help with some of your question...

Pyrodex was developed to circumvent onerous HazMat shipping regulations with respect to low-order explosives like black powder, and is treated like smokeless powder for shipping, insurance, and zoning purposes. Ask folks who stock real black powder what kind of hoops they have to jump through, and you'll understand why Pyrodex was considered a godsend. Pyrodex is great for the muzzleloading shooter if your local stores cannot stock the real stuff because of insurance or fire department rules. Otherwise, there's no great benefit.

Pyrodex is purposely formulated to be harder to ignite than real black powder (600 degrees F, with gas temps up towards 4,000 degrees F - which is why you don't see it being used in flintlock priming pans), which makes folks like UPS a lot happier when it comes to shipping and handling. In other words, it's better than nothing, and you'll see it at a lot more retail establishments than Holy Black.

Safe as it is, Pyrodex is considerably more corrosive than even black powder. The corrosivity and ignition properties of Pyrodex drove the industry to come out with other BP substitutes to include the ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) based Pinnacle, Black Canyon, Black Mag, American Pioneer, Clear Shot (fructose), and now the gluconic acid (glucose) based Triple Se7en. All are at least somewhat corrosive, regardless of marketing spiels, and it would behoove the muzzleloading shooter to properly clean their firearms after using any of the above.

Myself, I travel to a store that carries Holy Black, and stock up a case at a time. I like the consistency of black powder, as well as the smell when fired with a proper organic bullet lube. Cleanup to me is actually easier than Pyrodex, and since I can still get real BP, I'll stay with it. It'll keep well, too. I've shot some of my old DuPont BP, and it worked just fine.

 

[Steve499]

A pretty informative study was done on BP corrosion where, if I recall correctly, it was concluded that a relative humidity of 30% or less produces little if any corrosion. There's a link to the article in this thread, http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=242750

Steve