Holder and the Feds sued Over MCDV Lifetime Ban; Litigated By Donald Kilmer

Status
Not open for further replies.
It is perfectly normal to punish wrongdoing by suppressing rights.

Up to and including the right to live.

If we were to accept what you're saying, then we'd be forced to concede, because of capitol punishment, that people have no right to live, only a "privilege to be screwed with and administered by the State."

Linear logic is linear.

Yes, when the State can take away your right to live, the right to live is no longer a right and it is a privelage to be screwed with and administered by the State.

The Constitution is a restraining order against the Federal Government. Same thing at the state level, with state consitutions. Unfortunately, this country is full of people who think that restricting the 'rights' of others is "perfectly normal". Slavery and Jim Crow laws used to be "normal". Just because something is "normal" does not mean that it is the right thing to do.
 
So you're opposed to the death penalty?

What about ordinary incarceration?

Or have you accepted that what you insist on exploding with the melodramatic hyperbole of "privelage to be screwed with by the state" is in fact both normal and right?
 
I don't think Rat offered any opinion really he just commented that you were exactly right. Where capitol punishment exists life isn't a right but a privilege that can be revoked by the state. Just like you said sarcastically, problem is you were spot on.
 
Debates about the death penalty aren't on topic for this thread. Let's get back to discussing the topic at hand.

Sent from my Android smart phone using Tapatalk.
 
I agree that its normal in the sense that its been going on for a long period of time and has achieved broad based acceptance.
I don't personally think its "right" because innocent people have been strapped down to the same table as the guilty.

This all entirely off topic though so to get back on track: Prohibited persons legislation is counter productive, unconstitutional and has never kept anyone safe.
 
I still maintain that I would happily trade prohibited personhood for all violent criminals, even misdemeanor perpetrators, in exchange for non-violent felons retaining their second amendment rights.

No person who loses control and acts violently toward others can be trusted to have a weapon as powerful as a gun.
 
I still maintain that I would happily trade prohibited personhood for all violent criminals, even misdemeanor perpetrators, in exchange for non-violent felons retaining their second amendment rights.

No person who loses control and acts violently toward others can be trusted to have a weapon as powerful as a gun.
Please scroll back to my post with the legal definition of a "violent" misdemeanor and tell me if you still feel that way.
 
No person who loses control and acts violently toward others can be trusted to have a weapon as powerful as a gun.

I've trained with people who were more dangerous, without a gun, than most "CCW" license holders are with a gun in their hands.

Laws like this are a lame attempt to control the uncontrollable.

Most felons currently can not legally own guns, yet they kill lots of people every year, with guns. What use is the law, except to screw with otherwise decent people who have just as much a right to protect themselves as those who have never been caught doing something illegal?

Once people serve their time, they should have full rights as a citizen. Someone, who is too dangerous to be free and armed, should not be free in the first place. Some poor guy, who got caught spanking his kid years ago, should be able to protect his family as much as any of us.

This thread illustrates perfectly this quote from HL Menkin:

Off goes the head of the king, and tyranny gives way to freedom. The change seems abysmal. Then, bit by bit, the face of freedom hardens, and by and by it is the old face of tyranny. Then another cycle, and another. But under the play of all these opposites there is something fundamental and permanent — the basic delusion that men may be governed and yet be free.

And...

The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty — and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.

Either we are for the 2nd Amendment, or we aren't. There can be no "Well, I think it's a right that I have, but not for those people over there." Eventually, you may find yourself one of those people...
 
I still maintain that I would happily trade prohibited personhood for all violent criminals, even misdemeanor perpetrators, in exchange for non-violent felons retaining their second amendment rights.

No person who loses control and acts violently toward others can be trusted to have a weapon as powerful as a gun.

And I would maintain that you are wrong! If you are such a danger to society or yourself that you cannot be trusted with your rights, then you should not be out on the streets!

Prohibition does not work, it is a mental safety blanket for those who are "afraid" to accept reality.
 
And I would maintain that you are wrong! If you are such a danger to society or yourself that you cannot be trusted with your rights, then you should not be out on the streets!

Prohibition does not work, it is a mental safety blanket for those who are "afraid" to accept reality.
Thank you 1,000 times. Like every other gun control law the only thing that is accomplished is the pacification of ignorant reactionaries that are so desperately afraid of crime that they constantly need to see "action" taken (by others,usually government types) to feel safe. If one is so overwhelmingly afraid of gun crime they should get their own gun rather than push for laws that cost little johnny his .22 or cost grandpa his deer rifle. These are the only victims of gun control legislation, violent people who mean others harm will always be armed, and a million pages of legislation won't stop that.
 
And I would maintain that you are wrong! If you are such a danger to society or yourself that you cannot be trusted with your rights, then you should not be out on the streets!

I disagree. We have a justice system, not a chinese-style "public security" system. There is more to punishment and incarceration than simply keeping dangerous people "off the streets."

If we were to incarcerate people based on their 'dangerousness' and not as a punishment for some wrongdoing, then we would be justified in incarcerating people who had committed no crime, as long as we could label them as 'dangerous.'

Being deprived of your rights is part of the punishment for felonies.

We try to strike a balance between justice and public safety, and I think that we could strike a better balance if we fine-tuned it a little bit to let non-violent offenders keep their second amendment rights, but suppressed those of all violent offenders, whether felons or not.
 
Why are you advocating for increased restrictions in a large number of your posts on the forum amjs?
 
What kind of question is that?

Restoring the rights of non-violent felons is a decreased restriction, if you didn't notice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top