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Holder's new views on the 2A

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Dodgeit, Jan 16, 2009.

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  1. Dodgeit

    Dodgeit Member

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    This came out in his conformation hearings, as reported by CNN.

    I hope this is not more smoke and mirrors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Doesn't say his views have changed, just that he thinks Heller was important.

    We'll see over time I guess.
     
  3. K3

    K3 Member

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    It takes a lot to change a man's core beliefes, and I believe he will act on his to the extent possible within the law amd with some possible interpretation/bending.
     
  4. Dodgeit

    Dodgeit Member

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    Texas Rifleman "Previously viewed" would at first glance indicate that your views had changed.

    I am not defending Holder, just reporting wait he said.

    He is a scumbag that will screw us if he can.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm afraid I can't read that much good news into it :)

    I hope he has changed his mind certainly but, like most of these guys, I worry he will go back to the

    "OK it's an individual right but in the opinion section Scalia said we could restrict it"

    From Volokh

    I guess I'm just not ready to believe that he's "seen the light".

    http://volokh.com/posts/1227228105.shtml
     
  6. Dodgeit

    Dodgeit Member

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    Like I said I'm not for Holder, just wanted to post the news bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2009
  7. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh I understand, I read his transcript and yes it's good that he will at least admit that Heller exists, there are lots of them that still want to pretend it never happened or it somehow doesn't matter :)

    I'm not arguing with you :)

    This guy scares me, that's all.
     
  8. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    It's those words "reasonable restrictions" that scare me.

    AFS
     
  9. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    At least he acknowledges its significance, and doesn't brush it off as a narrow, aberrant opinion. That probably comes from BO.

    We don't really know what Holder's personal opinion is. Remember, back in the day he was given his marching orders from the Clintons and from Janet Rhino, none of whom brooked any dissent, on penalty of anything from being canned to being found partly disassembled at Fort Marcy Park.
     
  10. Cyborg

    Cyborg Member

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    Still Don't Trust Him

    I still don't trust the sierra oscar bravo. He's a politician and you know the old saw:
    At least the Rebublicans on the Judiciary Committee did what I asked mine and Spector to do - make him articulate his beliefs publicly - AND under oath.

    When I hear on the news that a leopard one day woke up patterned like a oscelot, I'll consider trusting him. Till then november foxtrot whiskey.

    Cyborg
     
  11. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Holder is the one who told the District Judges in the Emerson case that the Federal gov. could ban their shotguns in the closet at home. The Judges told Holder between them they owned enough firearms to take over a South Americian Country. I dislike him an Obama very, very much. Watch out is will come down the pike.
     
  12. wvshootin

    wvshootin Member

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    HOLDER, don't want to knitpick but come on, the name is Eric Holder
     
  13. Dodgeit

    Dodgeit Member

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    Well I've clean up what I could. It's Friday going on Saturday.
     
  14. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Cop Killer bullets :rolleyes:

    Any "bullet" can be used to kill... these talking head types sure are a bunch of idiots!

    Same as "Bullet Proof Vests"

    No such beast exists...


    With enough velocity anything can go through another thing... ;)
     
  15. Cyborg

    Cyborg Member

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    ??????

    But But I thought Vince Foster committed suicide?:confused: I mean that's what the media reported. Were they wrong? :eek: Did those guys report something FACT-U-AL-LY IN-COR-RECT? :what:

    Say it ain't so!!!:uhoh:



    ;)

    <removes tongue from cheek>
    Later guys.

    Cyborg
     
  16. BullpupBen

    BullpupBen Member

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    Can someone explain to me what the hell a cop killer bullet is? Is he talking about hollowpoints that cant pierce any armor or FMJ's that allow for cheap practice?

    That being said, I think this is the first time since before election day i've felt anything resembling "hope" for the direction of the federal government.
     
  17. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    Holder's statements DO NOT IN ANYWAY represent a view change regarding the 2A and RKBA. In fact, quite contrary they establish he still wants to highly regulate guns, but concedes that Heller limits his ability to do so. Basically he is saying that he will push for every regulation that is possible under the Heller ruling... what those are, I don't know. Don't be fooled.
     
  18. WTBguns10kOK

    WTBguns10kOK Member

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    To believe that this man will respect the Heller decision and the 2A in general is to have believed Hussein Obama when he said he didn't want to take away your guns.
     
  19. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Same thing an "assault weapon" is, and a "high powered sniper rifle" and a "saturday night special".

    Made up names that help them try to ban certain classifications of firearms based solely on some irrational fear.
     
  20. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    Cy: "But But I thought Vince Foster committed suicide?"

    Heh-heh. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I believe man walked on the moon; I believe Oswald acted alone (that doesn't mean that a lot of interesting funny business wasn't going on); and I'm here to tell you that United Flight 175 hit the Pentagon with a sound of thunder.

    But I've walked Fort Marcy Park myself, and I knew Vince's attorney personally.

    I believe Vince Foster shot himself in Fort Marcy Park with a mixed 1913 Colt Army Special like I believe in the Tooth Fairy.
     
  21. Cyborg

    Cyborg Member

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    Holder: Heller Means Exactly Squat

    OK. Are we clear? To Holder Heller means exactly squat.

    Cyborg
     
  22. Megistopoda

    Megistopoda Member

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    There is absolutely no evidence to support that Holder has changed his views, any more than believing Obama has now changed from a career-long support of gun control measures to one to "supports the second amendment."

    Hell ... Holder just last year signed on to a long treatise trying to argue that the 2a protected no individual right at all, and if that argument didn't cut the mustard, then anything including a total ban on handguns was a reasonable restrictions.

    He just said it ... he thinks that reasonable restrictions are allowed (read in his mind mandated) under Heller.

    If you believe his testimony statements mean anything in a practical sense as supporting the 2A, then you are pulling the wool over your own eyes.
     
  23. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    Actually, I'm not sure that the Assault Weapon Ban would violate Heller, myself. I hope it would. But think about it; the "ban" didn't really "ban" much; it took away some accessories and features from certain types of rifles. But considering the SAR-1 was legal to import under the AWB, and the Romanian SKS was legal to import under the AWB, it's hard to say the AWB restricts freedom very much if at all. It's just a nuisance.
     
  24. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle member

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    Can someone explain to me what the hell a cop killer bullet is?

    I think what they mean by that is cartridges that will penetrate body armor. As you probably know, this is a complete red herring, since armor piercing handgun rounds are already illegal and have been for a long time, and just about all rifle rounds will pierce body armor and there's no way to manufacture them so that they won't. It's just a way to scare Sally soccer mom into voting Democrat and supporting gun control.
     
  25. subknave

    subknave Member

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    The biggest problem in my view is that when it comes to "assault weapons", "cop Killer Bullets", "Saturday night Specials" and a host of other things including what is and isn't a machinegun the Attorney Generals views are the final interpretations. Look at the CFR and see how often it says "or as the Attorney General may direct". For years you could import barrels with parts kits and then Gonzales "reinterpreted" the rules. Holder would be in charge of the ATF. If a shoelace can be a machinegun (a shoelace used to connect the trigger to the bolt of a semi auto rifle is a machinegun by the ATF) then what else is going to be. Theoretically any semi auto firearm could be modified to fire more than one shot with each pull of the trigger and therefore, depending on your interpretation of easily converted, would be a machinegun. As of 1986 no more machineguns for civilians. Now you have the basis for a ban in semi auto weapons because, according to Holder/ATF, they are machineguns. Of course police and criminals would still have them, one legally and one illegally. Plus no grandfather because you can't register your now machine gun so it would be confiscated all nice and legal. Now civilians can only have revolvers and bolt action rifles. Maybe the hunters won't care since most don't hunt with semi auto rifles and only the semi shotguns would be affected so it divides the gun owners and the only ones raising a fuss are labels nuts and wackos and you don't Really need a semi auto firearm. Next would probably be High power rifles as they are "COP KILLERS" with lots of video of bullets from rifles going through "bullet proof vests" to illustrate the point. Now all we have are 22's and shotguns. Shotguns are reinterpreted to be destructive devices based on greated than 1/2 inch bore so must be registered. so now all we have are small caliber revolvers. Most people do not realize how much power the Attorney General has to make and change rules within the CFR. To change a regulation I believe all they have to do is have it published and a period for public comment. Nothing says that even if the public is 100% against it they cannot still implement the change. I could be wrong about that and obviously it is a worst case scenario but you see how it could happen.
     
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