M1 Carbine in 45 ACP

[Gordon]

#1 the Mini 14 uses the same kind of action bar, rotating flat type bolt and extractor and short stroke gas system as an M1 carbine in design and almost size. Of course everything has been updated. I had an original 180 series which had an M14 type bolt roller which was done away with . the fire control system is closer to an M14 but still theit an magazine system to me are M1 carbinesque .
#2 , yes the Sterling magazine with it's roller system is the best SMG mag ever ! They feed superbly ! While we are talking SMG the open bolt to me is the best system. A little known fact of actual use is ; in the Sterling mentioned, for a prime example , the timing and balance of the heavy moving mass greatly reduces recoil and muzzle jump ! The Thompson is similar in this respect as is the Uzi and the Swedish K. They didn't pull the spring rates and mass of the bolts out of their butts with the good open bolt weapons. They balanced these and they are extremely efficient at making them effective bullet hoses out to useful combat ranges. The Sterlings can keep short bursts on a silo at 200 yards with the 200 yard peep folded up. I know the swedish K can too as can the original Uzi. Yeah I know the HKMP5 is better , but don't discount the open bolt guns.
#3 with soft point bullets, (or hollow points that feed) the .30 Carbine really comes on and it is a 100 yard deer gun and a 200 yard combat gun. The Remington soft point load used to blow 1/2" holes thru goats or sheep I could not catch out to 100 yards or so, and same for 100 pound dogs or big coyotes and I saw one used on a man when I was a teenager by a cop and it did the same. It and the .300 Blackout using 110 bullets and the BO with 8" barrels are very close, and not far off an 7.62x39 in power with a short barrel. I do have a .30 Ruger Blackhawk and the GI load is around 1500+ out of it. The Remington softpoint a little slower and it still expands on those animals too, call it a 50 yard deer gun .

 

[Jim Watson]

#1 the Mini 14 uses the same kind of action bar, rotating flat type bolt and extractor and short stroke gas system as an M1 carbine in design and almost size.

The gas system is considerably simplified. There is no separate moving piston. There is kind of a nozzle projecting rearwards from the gas block that you could call a stationary piston. It enters a hole in the action bar that serves as a cylinder. Gas pressure just kind of blows the action bar off the nozzle. The Remington 742 has a similar system.

 

[Maneiak]

This is a good video that shows Power/Accuracy/Relevence

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I read an article based on interviews with USMC Guadalcanal veterans. Some Marines told the interviewer they picked the .30 M1 Carbine as it became available to replace their original issue .45 M50 Reising or M1928 Thompson in large part because the .30 Carbine penetrated jungle cover better than the .45.

The M1 Carbine was designed after the .30 Self Loading cartridge was chosen. None of the first carbine designs were satisfactory. So the M1 Carbine was designed around the .30 SL cartridge. I think the M1 Carbine is hard to match up with any other cartridge than the .30 Carbine.

 

[CapnMac]

Timely video:

 

[kBob]

Thanks for that Forgotten Weapons vid, I had not seen that one.

To me the most telling thing was the split screen shots. It looked like in everyone he dropped the first target quickest with the Carbine and in a couple dropped the second target either at the same time as the first pistol shot or a little faster.

I will say that at actual 100 yard targets the Carbine beats the 1911, period.

I like SMGs, but in all honesty given my choice of whatever true SMG (not shorty rifle) and a Carbine if I was a twenty-ish something trooper going in harms way would take the M1 or M2 carbine over any SMG.

-kBob

 

[amd6547]

Isn't the Ruger Mini 14 a kinda M1 carbine clone ? Seems closer to that than an M14 to me.

Thanks for that Forgotten Weapons vid, I had not seen that one.

To me the most telling thing was the split screen shots. It looked like in everyone he dropped the first target quickest with the Carbine and in a couple dropped the second target either at the same time as the first pistol shot or a little faster.

I will say that at actual 100 yard targets the Carbine beats the 1911, period.

I like SMGs, but in all honesty given my choice of whatever true SMG (not shorty rifle) and a Carbine if I was a twenty-ish something trooper going in harms way would take the M1 or M2 carbine over any SMG.

-kBob

The Carbine sure does beat the 1911 at 100yds. This is 15rd of Hornady Critical Defense at 100yds, through my CMP GI Inland standing, offhand...without trying too hard. My Auto Ordnance Reproduction folder does about the same.

 

[CapnMac]

The Carbine sure does beat the 1911 at 100yds. This is 15rd of Hornady Critical Defense at 100yds, through my CMP GI Inland standing, offhand...without trying too hard. My Auto Ordnance Reproduction folder does about the same.View attachment 926141

And, that's exactly the "why" the War Department ordered the million plus carbines they did.

Being the War Department, they thne muddied the water by coming up with a scheme where Squad Leaders were to be issued Carbines with tracer ammo so that they could "direct" the fire of the Squad (Doctrine held that the SL was to only engage in extremis, that the 10 other rifles and a BAR was plenty of firepower--which is fine and dandy on paper). And, GIs, being notoriously sticky-fingered would collect all sorts of stuff, whether it was doctrine or not.

And the "War Baby" cared not a white, and just soldiered on, and on, and on.

 

[amd6547]

On YouTube, there are a lot of silent, raw newsreel /combat correspondent movie footage of the western front fighting. You see lots of carbine use in street to street fighting and prisoner guarding.
I grabbed this still from one...this GI was laying down some rapid fire.