Home Defense Rounds?

[BIGBANG]

Ok, I have an AK variant that I use as my home defense rifle. No shotty right now so I'm using th AK. My question is which type of round should I use for the house, soft points or hollow points? Or should I just stick with the good ole FMJ?
The reason I ask is because I bought some ammo today that soft points and I didn't even know they made it for ak's. So is it better for home defense or should I stay with the HP's.

 

[Art Eatman]

Six of one, half-dozen of the other. Since home defense is a very low-probability thing, I figure I'd use whichever gave the best groups from the bench. Either round should work nicely for any hunting you do...

 

[bracer]

I dont know AK 47 rounds but a neigbor found out that a bullet from a Rem 44 Mag would go thru two house walls and and an interiour wall. My backup is a 20 Ga pump shot gun with 4/0 loads.

 

[gotigers]

I don't know much about AKs, but...........

I have read several articles on this topic. I don't have links, google will find some. Many of the articles said that a 12ga with #6 is the safest in a home environment and it still leathal at the close ranges you will encounter in a home.

9mm was one of the worst. Most rifle rounds were bad choices. The .223/5.56 did well because it was designed to tumble on impact. The .223/5.56 did much better than the 9mm. However, an AR is to loud. It will do serious damage to you and your families hearing. I guess loss of hearing is better than dieing. Get a can. I imagine an AK would do the same and it would over penetrate walls possibly killing friendlies. Buckshot penetrated several walls as well in most test.

If are going to use a rifle or 9mm check out some of the new frangible ammo. It explodes on contact with any surface, very little penetration, but is very leathal. I've seen gell test with this stuff. Plenty of penetration to kill, but fairly safe after hitting a wall.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

BIGBANG, here are some good links on 7.62x39 defensive ammo:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=488737
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443970

Here is a good round up on how various calibers penetrate typical home materials:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=566923

And here is a great read on self-defense ammo and problems in general (including best 7.62x39 )
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Short version:
Anything that meets the FBI minimum criteria for penetration of ballistics gel is going to penetrate multiple interior walls if you miss your target. Plan accordingly. Rounds that can get stopped by 1/2" of powdered gypsum lined with paper tend to perform very poorly on people because it is harder to penetrate people than it is to penetrate drywall.

 

[BIGBANG]

Bartholomew thanks for the links, I actually have some of the wolf, those are the HP I have. Lots of good readin, got me thinkin maybe I should save for a decent pump shotgun.

Thanks for the help fellas.

 

[briansmithwins]

Mine is loaded with Hornandy Vmax 123gr ballistic tips.

Adequate penetration and starts to fall apart when it hits even sheetrock walls.

LK

 

[Shawn Dodson]

See also "Russian Rifle Caliber Wounding Effects" at http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885

 

[Flynt]

Hmm... I've had a pump shotgun loaded with 00 handy for HD, because I thought it would be lethal but not overpenetrating. Plus, I've heard about the fact that racking the action is a good deterrent. Now I wonder if I should go to #4 shot. I know, it's not as lethal, but you'd still hear the racking sound.

 

[Cosmoline]

I would lean towards the higher end SP's and HP's such as Cor-Bon. The Wolf and similar budget rounds in SP design tend to be very primitive designs that are little more than an exposed lead core.

 

[briansmithwins]

Older thread with gello pics of the Hornandy Vmax round here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=270536

BSW

 

[SentinelStrategic]

Link to Hornady TAP ammo:
http://hornadyle.com/products/more_detail83c3.html?id=72&sID=148&pID=1

 

[wnycollector]

If you can find some old stock Wolf Military Classic HP ammo, it was loaded with Sapsan (ulyanovsk 8M3) HP bullet. That bullet exhibited decent fragmentation out to 100 yards.

 

[benEzra]

There is IMO only one imported hollowpoint that is better than imported softpoint, and that is the Wolf Military Classic 124gr "8M3" JHP mentioned upthread.

Do not confuse this with Wolf 122-grain JHP (the stuff that usually comes in black boxes); the 8M3 load is made at a different factory. The 122-grain "black box" load is basically just a FMJ with an open tip, and doesn't expand/fragment very well.

Do keep in mind that 7.62x39mm SP or good JHP will still penetrate somewhat more in building materials than 9mm, buckshot, or .223 JHP. Evaluate your home situation ahead of time, considering not only your own occupied rooms but also your neighbors, and don't shoot in unsafe directions. A brick-faced exterior wall will probably stop 7.62x39mm JHP/SP pretty reliably, but the rounds may well exit a wood or vinyl sided exterior wall.

 

[Maverick223]

As best as I can tell Wolf no longer uses 8M3 "SAPSAN" bullets in any loads (to include the Mil. Classic HP). It appears that they have begun using the standard 122gr. HPs despite the same labels as the good stuff.

That being the case I believe the V-Max is the best load for HD/SD, with various SPs being a decent second choice. Thick jacketed Wolf (HP or otherwise) should be avoided.

 

[BIGBANG]

1WOW! the V-Max seems about perfect. My house is brick but definitely drywall inside, I think that V-Max is the ticket, I didn't even know they made it for 7.62x39. Now I got to find it somewhere lol. Thanks guys, definitely opened my eyes alot!

 

[briansmithwins]

I got mine here: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/6916

Out of stock right now, but you might be able to find it elsewhere.

BSW

 

[Effigy]

I read that the Ulyanovsk JHPs fragment reliably. When I tried to find it for sale online, it looked like Tula is synonymous with Ulyanovsk. For example: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM6409-1.html

Can anyone confirm whether there's a difference between these brands? Was I correctly informed that the Uly JHP is worthwhile?

 

[Maverick223]

^If that's Uly then why does it say TulAmmo on the box? Sounds fishy to me. Furthermore, I thought that all Uly 8M3 was 124gr. rather than 122gr. (which is what it states on the box). All the evidence points to the thick jacketed standard Wolf HP. The "real stuff" is definitely a worthwhile investment.

 

[Effigy]

You may be right. I'm not seeing another other search results for Ulyanovsk HP though.

This also points to Uly and Tula being the same, since they keep getting mentioned together:
http://www.luckygunner.com/ammo-manufacturer/tula-ammo-review

 

[wnycollector]

Here is a link to Vmax ammo http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/0_24_99_439/products_id/4064

My dwindling stash (~300 rounds) of the Uly 8M3 dates back to 2006-2007. I would love for wolf to begin offering that bullet again!

 

[Maverick223]

You may be right. I'm not seeing another other search results for Ulyanovsk HP though.

Which makes me even more skeptical.

This also points to Uly and Tula being the same, since they keep getting mentioned together: [link removed]

I didn't read the link, but from what I know the Uly plant was purchased by the owner of Tula (both former, and present day, military munitions plants). This doesn't necessarily mean that the are using the same projectile now, but it is plausible. If true, it is unfortunate as the Uly ammo always proved to be both more accurate and, as pointed out earlier, had far greater terminal performance.

Here is a link to Vmax ammo

That's the new SST projectile, which doesn't perform quite as good (for SD/HD tasks anyway)...the V-max is being phased out for some unknown reason.