Home Defense
- Thread starter joeg
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Sir, in your time in the service did you ever have any exposure to the M1 carbine?
It is a light handy gun, as you well may know, is easy to shoot and yet recoils very lightly.
Auto Ordinance is now making a very faithful reproduction here is a picture
I had the chance to buy a slightly used one, for $400, and I passed it up, went back 3 days later with a changed mind and it was already gone.
the CMP is also carrying actual genuine M1 carbines. Your age is enough to wave the requirement of showing proof of firearm training, and your past military service or possible affilation with a veterans group should cover the association requirement. They are quite used and you would need to clean it up and get a magazine, so maybe it would be better to just buy the new reproduction
http://www.odcmp.com/about_us.htm
http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm
http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/eligibility_requirements.htm
It is a light handy gun, as you well may know, is easy to shoot and yet recoils very lightly.
Auto Ordinance is now making a very faithful reproduction here is a picture
I had the chance to buy a slightly used one, for $400, and I passed it up, went back 3 days later with a changed mind and it was already gone.
the CMP is also carrying actual genuine M1 carbines. Your age is enough to wave the requirement of showing proof of firearm training, and your past military service or possible affilation with a veterans group should cover the association requirement. They are quite used and you would need to clean it up and get a magazine, so maybe it would be better to just buy the new reproduction
http://www.odcmp.com/about_us.htm
http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm
http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/eligibility_requirements.htm
Corporal K
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Glock Model 21, .45 caliber.
13 round magazine. Lighter, easier operate for both you and your Mrs and much more reliable out-of-the-box than a 1911 which I used to own as well).
I've had mine for 16 years; with thousands of rounds through it. Great gun and fairly priced.
13 round magazine. Lighter, easier operate for both you and your Mrs and much more reliable out-of-the-box than a 1911 which I used to own as well).
I've had mine for 16 years; with thousands of rounds through it. Great gun and fairly priced.
MKEITH
Member
Full size .38 special is what I would recomend. A buddy of mine who has carpal tunnel can shoot his model 19 with .38's with no problem, and with the right ammo, a .38 can be pretty devestating.
Jimmypop97
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- Feb 21, 2007
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Judging off of your story, you could go for a Winchester Shotgun copy like you used in the military. Aim has them for $200, and it should be very close to what you used.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Classic_Model_1897_12GA_Riot_Shotgun.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Classic_Model_1897_12GA_Riot_Shotgun.html
I'd recommend a pump action shotgun. If you're shy of the recoil of a 12 gauge, a 20 gauge is still plenty of gun for keeping the burglars out.
I don't know how your dexterity is at 75 years old, but shot guns are a lot easier to load than a pistol if you have trouble with your hands.
I don't know how your dexterity is at 75 years old, but shot guns are a lot easier to load than a pistol if you have trouble with your hands.
Joeg,
Welcome to THR. As a fellow resident of the PRNJ, I'm not so sure about a 1911 as a HD gun. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1911 platform, and have a few in the safe. But, here in the PRNJ, having a single action pistol as a HD gun is a lawsuit/prosecution waiting to happen. I think your best bet for home defense would be a shotgun/coachgun, a .38/.357 revolver such as a S&W 686, or a Glock as many PD's issue these and they are classified as double action, hence they would be easier to defend in case of any legal proceedings. The advantage of the handgun is that you can have it on your person at all times, and not have to run to it in the middle of an incident. If you are in NW NJ drop me a private message, and I would be glad to have you come to the range and shoot a couple different platforms to help you make a decision. Alternatively, there is a range in PA, Sunset Ridge, where you can rent a lot of different guns to help you make a decision. Good luck and stay safe!
Mazeman,
It's not whether or not home invasions are common, it's a fact that they do occur, and I would/do always either carry, or make sure I can have a defensive weapon in hand quickly. It would be pretty ridiculous to have my safes full, and when needed, be unable to protect me and mine.
Welcome to THR. As a fellow resident of the PRNJ, I'm not so sure about a 1911 as a HD gun. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1911 platform, and have a few in the safe. But, here in the PRNJ, having a single action pistol as a HD gun is a lawsuit/prosecution waiting to happen. I think your best bet for home defense would be a shotgun/coachgun, a .38/.357 revolver such as a S&W 686, or a Glock as many PD's issue these and they are classified as double action, hence they would be easier to defend in case of any legal proceedings. The advantage of the handgun is that you can have it on your person at all times, and not have to run to it in the middle of an incident. If you are in NW NJ drop me a private message, and I would be glad to have you come to the range and shoot a couple different platforms to help you make a decision. Alternatively, there is a range in PA, Sunset Ridge, where you can rent a lot of different guns to help you make a decision. Good luck and stay safe!
Mazeman,
It's not whether or not home invasions are common, it's a fact that they do occur, and I would/do always either carry, or make sure I can have a defensive weapon in hand quickly. It would be pretty ridiculous to have my safes full, and when needed, be unable to protect me and mine.
FMJMIKE
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- Dec 19, 2002
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- 22,510
Biggest bore inexpensive gun that both you and your wife are comfortable with. Remember, after every shooting the police confisicate the firearm as evidence. Why lose a $1k gun when a $150 gun can do the same job. By going cheap, you don't develop any sentimental attachments to it. Eventually, you'll get it back after you're cleared of wrongdoing, but it will have been uncleaned and could be scratched up from careless handling by the police.
CryingWolf
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- Nov 27, 2007
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- 78
As my buddy would put it "You need to be well healed!" Well I am all for the pump action shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge will be fine. You can get a 1911 for your night stand and a GP100 revolver for your wife's nightstand. Then you will be "well healed"
jakemccoy
Member
Ah crap, now I must have one of those carbines by Auto Ordinance. Screw this thread!
Brian Dale
Member
Good choice, sir, and welcome to The High Road!joeg said:
If you won't mind another suggestion, I recommend picking up several boxes of inexpensive "Value Pack" shotgun shells for practice. If you don't find those, get the cheapest shells with about #8 bird shot that you see at the store. These are practice loads, not home defense loads. They'll be easier on the shoulder and on the check book as you and your wife practice "running the gun."
These shells typically carry an ounce of #8 bird shot; take seven-eighths of an ounce if you can get it, but the difference isn't crucial. My 870 likes Federals, but Winchester and Remington make similar "Value Packs." These cheap, lower-recoil loads can be fun to shoot, and that will enhance your smoothness as you recover your skill and your wife develops hers.
All the best to you.
jahwarrior
Member
this is what i have for HD:
Just ran across the "Speed Pump Defender" pump on the Winchester site.They list this under "New" items and it looks very promising.It has a five shell magazine,one greater than the Remington 870 and is a few bucks cheaper.Anyone have any experience with this model?
Brian Dale
Member
It seems from Winchester's site that the "Speed Pump Defender" is a version of their 1300. Good. My answer to your question is that I haven't handled one. Do so if you can; the most frequent recommendation in the Shotguns Forum here is to choose the "Big Four" pump shotgun that fits you best.
What are the Big Four? They are the Remington 870, the Winchester 1300, the Mossberg 500/590 and the Ithaca 37. There's a thread at The Firing Line started by our own Shotguns moderator which describes them. They're all guns with a long track record of reliability. They're also not terribly expensive, and the world is full of good, used ones. Click on the following link to read that thread:
The Big Four
What are the Big Four? They are the Remington 870, the Winchester 1300, the Mossberg 500/590 and the Ithaca 37. There's a thread at The Firing Line started by our own Shotguns moderator which describes them. They're all guns with a long track record of reliability. They're also not terribly expensive, and the world is full of good, used ones. Click on the following link to read that thread:
The Big Four
KBintheSLC
Member
Maybe you can go to a range and rent a few of the guns that are recommended. That way you can feel out what works for you. The 1911, and the 12ga 870 are both great ideas if you can handle the recoil. If not, the 20ga with some buckshot, or get a .357 mag with a 6" barrel and load it up with .38 +P. Best of luck.
Doesn't NJ also ban hollowpoints? If so, the larger caliber handgun the better (44, 45 as opposed to 9mm/38/357). Can still go with a revolver if you want, or a 1911 with a lighter spring and 185gr or 200gr FMJ or TC bullets.
And the shotgun certainly trumps a handgun when it comes to effectiveness, assuming you have it when you need it.
And the shotgun certainly trumps a handgun when it comes to effectiveness, assuming you have it when you need it.
As a reply to Akoda I have fired the following weapons while in the US Army:
Colt A1 1911 cal.45 pistol,30 cal. carbine,30 cal M1 rifle,30 cal machine gun,50 cal machine gun,45 cal Grease gun,12 GA Winchester shotgun & the 2.8 in. Rocket Launcher.The one I disliked the most was the 30 cal M1 rifle which gave me a bruised shoulder for one or two weeks.The fun job was the 45 cal Grease Gun which was produced for the Resistance fighters in Europe and only had two machined parts,the bolt and the barrel the rest was fabricated from pressed steel, and I was told at the time, at a cost of approximately one buck.We were taught to fire the shotgun from the hip and not the shoulder.On the range this was very effective as all you had to do was twist your hips and fire on one target after another.Upon inspection of the targets ,which were half size cardboard replicas of a human,they all had been penetrated.I also remember that the shells supposedly contained 9 shot each of 33 caliber.
Colt A1 1911 cal.45 pistol,30 cal. carbine,30 cal M1 rifle,30 cal machine gun,50 cal machine gun,45 cal Grease gun,12 GA Winchester shotgun & the 2.8 in. Rocket Launcher.The one I disliked the most was the 30 cal M1 rifle which gave me a bruised shoulder for one or two weeks.The fun job was the 45 cal Grease Gun which was produced for the Resistance fighters in Europe and only had two machined parts,the bolt and the barrel the rest was fabricated from pressed steel, and I was told at the time, at a cost of approximately one buck.We were taught to fire the shotgun from the hip and not the shoulder.On the range this was very effective as all you had to do was twist your hips and fire on one target after another.Upon inspection of the targets ,which were half size cardboard replicas of a human,they all had been penetrated.I also remember that the shells supposedly contained 9 shot each of 33 caliber.
Brian Dale
Member
They cost a lot more than that now.
That's 00 buckshot. It's still good. You might find that shooting from the shoulder is even more effective.
Joeg,
There's nothing "wrong" with any of the suggestions listed so far.
I think the real question is, how much firearms experience has your wife had? You may be thinking "If there's a bump in the night, I'll be the one getting the gun and checking things out" but consider this... you have a friend coming over in the next few minutes, so when you hear a knock at the door you go to let him in... only it turns out it's not your friend, but a couple of thugs there to do a daylight "home invasion" robbery. One has a (pole, baseball bat, crowbar, whatever) and starts to wail on you right there at the door as they force their way inside. You're on the floor taking a heck of a beating - now, is your wife standing there in horror looking on, or is she running for the back room to get the gun? When she gets it, will she know what to do with it? (see if it's loaded, make sure a round is chambered, safety is off, etc) and once she gets it into action, will she be more likely - under STRESS - to get solid hits on the bad guys and make sure she doesn't shoot YOU or thru a wall and hit the neighbor kids in their sandbox? Will she still be standing after firing a 12 gauge full of 00 buckshot, or will she be falling backwards or thrown off so much by the blast and recoil that getting in any follow up shots is an "iffy" proposition?
My suggestion would be to get the largest manstopping caliber in a package that both you and your wife are both able and WILLING to go and practice 100 shots at least once every 90 days at your local range. If that is a 9mm, then fine. If either of you have hand strength issues, then maybe a revolver. I'd advise hitting a rental range and test-driving a few handguns if you are of a handgun mindset. The suggestion of a 20 gauge shotgun was pretty good. I like the 20 gauge with #4 buckshot, it seems to be the sweet spot in that gauge between penetration and pellet count. The M1 carbine is not a bad choice if they are ok in Jersey.
Regardless, your wife is your backup, and a backup with zero training and experience is just someone to call the ambulance for you after the fact.
Not wanting to criticize at all, just wanting to offer you some food for thought. Good luck in your search.
There's nothing "wrong" with any of the suggestions listed so far.
I think the real question is, how much firearms experience has your wife had? You may be thinking "If there's a bump in the night, I'll be the one getting the gun and checking things out" but consider this... you have a friend coming over in the next few minutes, so when you hear a knock at the door you go to let him in... only it turns out it's not your friend, but a couple of thugs there to do a daylight "home invasion" robbery. One has a (pole, baseball bat, crowbar, whatever) and starts to wail on you right there at the door as they force their way inside. You're on the floor taking a heck of a beating - now, is your wife standing there in horror looking on, or is she running for the back room to get the gun? When she gets it, will she know what to do with it? (see if it's loaded, make sure a round is chambered, safety is off, etc) and once she gets it into action, will she be more likely - under STRESS - to get solid hits on the bad guys and make sure she doesn't shoot YOU or thru a wall and hit the neighbor kids in their sandbox? Will she still be standing after firing a 12 gauge full of 00 buckshot, or will she be falling backwards or thrown off so much by the blast and recoil that getting in any follow up shots is an "iffy" proposition?
My suggestion would be to get the largest manstopping caliber in a package that both you and your wife are both able and WILLING to go and practice 100 shots at least once every 90 days at your local range. If that is a 9mm, then fine. If either of you have hand strength issues, then maybe a revolver. I'd advise hitting a rental range and test-driving a few handguns if you are of a handgun mindset. The suggestion of a 20 gauge shotgun was pretty good. I like the 20 gauge with #4 buckshot, it seems to be the sweet spot in that gauge between penetration and pellet count. The M1 carbine is not a bad choice if they are ok in Jersey.
Regardless, your wife is your backup, and a backup with zero training and experience is just someone to call the ambulance for you after the fact.
Not wanting to criticize at all, just wanting to offer you some food for thought. Good luck in your search.
Glock .45 AUTO
Try out a few different .45 AUTO Glock pistols to see what you like and what size the Mrs. can handle.
Glock has a model that is perfect for you and another that is perfect for your wife. Two pistols, same ammo.
This is my G21 with a TLR-1 Streamlight.
Try out a few different .45 AUTO Glock pistols to see what you like and what size the Mrs. can handle.
Glock has a model that is perfect for you and another that is perfect for your wife. Two pistols, same ammo.
This is my G21 with a TLR-1 Streamlight.
Klusterbuck
Member
+1 on the 20ga Pump.....
I'd be concerned about the ability of an elderly person, male or female, to operate the slide of a semi-auto or pump shotgun, especially while under stress.
I'd strongly consider a DA revolver such as a S&W 686+ with .38 Specials. Another option might be a Ruger Mini-14 or Remington 1100, but those are big maybes.
I'd strongly consider a DA revolver such as a S&W 686+ with .38 Specials. Another option might be a Ruger Mini-14 or Remington 1100, but those are big maybes.
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