Home Invaders and Protecting Yourself

[Enter_Narne]

Hi, I plan on building my dream home in a few years and I'm talking with people on the features I'd like to include in the house. One feature I'm interested is an entryway that acts as an airlock. It's been suggested that such an entryway does a good job of keeping the inside climate controlled air from escaping outside and thus keeping energy costs down.

Before I ask my question let me give you some information that leads me to ask it.

I just realized that such an airlock would also be a good form of home defense. Most people around the world have only one front door. With an airlock entryway I would essentially have two. I could answer the front door while the inner airlock door behind me is locked. This would prevent potential invaders that overpower me (God forbid) from having unobstructed access to the interior of the house and my loved ones.

Most people I speak to (mostly law enforcement) about home invasions say that if you are going to fight an intruder you should kill them so they can't turn around and sue you; and you should drag them back into the house if they staggered outside and died on your porch. They say to drag them in because the law is not on the home owners' side if the intruder dies outside the home.

I have been told of three separate instances where home owners have either shot an intruder and the intruder either died outside the home or escaped wounded. In each case the home owner was prosecuted. They were seen as the suspect in a crime, not the intruder.

With these things in mind here is my question:
If I have that exterior front door set up with a silent alarm that sounds in the bedroom, should I leave that door unlocked at night?

Here's why I ask. A person that wants to get into your home uninvited is not an intruder until they "intrude" into the home. The laws protect him/her from my defensive actions and weapons until they cross the threshold into my home. Simply by opening my exterior front entryway door they have become an intruder. My second, equally protected, interior entryway door is still protecting my home. I am not at a disadvantage because I am still under the same amount of protection as most of the people around the world.

Now that the intruder has tripped the silent alarm and alerted me to his/her presence I can confront them from a fortified position inside my home. If I chose to shoot them I would be totally within my rights to do so because they are inside my home uninvited.

Of course there are still windows and other exterior doors that a home invader might choose, but for the sake of this scenario what do you think? Should I leave that front exterior entryway door unlocked at night?


/EDIT
I think I didn't make myself clear or that you are misreading my post.

I am not saying to make a 'intruder lure'. I really do not expect intruders to be coming to my house on a nightly basis, if at all.

This is a security feature to have. Just like you have an extra lock on your door. Just in case.

My police buddies were not literally telling me to drag the person inside. Please don't take that statement literally, I didn't mean it that way. Of course I would never shoot someone outside and drag them inside, of course I know that is a crime.

They were explaining how difficult it can be to defend yourself in your own home and I was trying to relay that to you. It is like the intruder has a right to make crimes against you but you can do nothing to stop them. It really isn't right when you come down to it.

Having two doors is an extra measure of security. Having an alarm is an extra measure of security. Just a simple question about the laws and the rights of the home owner. Being that should the two doors be locked? Should the first one be unlocked? I wonder that if they find the first door locked, will they walk around the house to find and easier way in?

I just am asking for educated answers on protecting my family for 'what-ifs', not for glorified 'shooting fish in a barrel.' Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Badbunny]

You need to rig the airlock with poison gas dispensers so you don't even have to get up. Just be careful not to trip on the expired home invaders on your way out.

 

[Threeband]

Boy, have you gotten some Bad Advice. Your "law enforcement" buddies are idiots. Who told you that, Chief Wiggum?

Drag the body back inside? Felony! Tampering with evidence, lying to a police officer, filing a false police report. If you're lucky, you might be able to plea-bargain down from Capital Murder to second degree, and with good behavior, get paroled in forty years or so.

Leave your door open to lure intruders in? Wow! Ambush! First degree, Capital Murder!

Also, even if you kill the intruder (were you threatened with deadly force? does your state require you to retreat before shooting as a last resort?)
HIS FAMILY WILL SUE YOU!

 

[Mike_in_OC]

I'm confused... what are you trying to accomplish?

 

[Leanwolf]

ENTER NARNE, if I were you, I'd pay very strict attention to what Threeband said!!!!!!!!!

Whichever "cop" told you to "just drag a body back in the house" after you have shot him/her, is an absolute idiot! and should never be wearing a badge and carrying the authority that goes with it.

FWIW.

L.W.

 

[Byron Quick]

You're getting very bad advice from your law enforcement 'friends.'

You need to talk with a criminal defense lawyer in your state. He'll be up on the way your state's courts do things.

Now, my state considers the porch to be identical to the interior of the house. Staggering outside after getting shot inside makes absolutely no difference. On the other hand, tampering with evidence does make a difference.

 

[LarryS.]

DITTO!!...

 

[Enter_Narne]

I think I didn't make myself clear or that you are misreading my post.

I am not saying to make a 'intruder lure'. I really do not expect intruders to be coming to my house on a nightly basis, if at all.

This is a security feature to have. Just like you have an extra lock on your door. Just in case.

My police buddies were not literally telling me to drag the person inside. Please don't take that statement literally, I didn't mean it that way. Of course I would never shoot someone outside and drag them inside, of course I know that is a crime.

They were explaining how difficult it can be to defend yourself in your own home and I was trying to relay that to you. It is like the intruder has a right to make crimes against you but you can do nothing to stop them. It really isn't right when you come down to it.

Having two doors is an extra measure of security. Having an alarm is an extra measure of security. Just a simple question about the laws and the rights of the home owner. Being that should the two doors be locked? Should the first one be unlocked? I wonder that if they find the first door locked, will they walk around the house to find and easier way in?

I just am asking for educated answers on protecting my family for 'what-ifs', not for glorified 'shooting fish in a barrel.' Sorry for the misunderstanding.


I will edit the original post to be more clear.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

Dude, do not touch anything if you use force.

If the intruder is inside your home when you shoot him/her it don't matter if they run all the way to East Jesus the confrontation still occurred inside your home.

 

[busy_squirrel]

Don't forget, if you enter the airlock to answer the outer door with the inner shut, how do you get back in the inner door, and out of the airlock?

Whatever method you use (turn the knob, key on your person, etc.) the intruder that overpowered you could use the same method when he takes the key from your unconscious body.

Your only option is to lock yourself into the airlock with a combo keypad. Just seems to me like it'd be easier to install CCTV and intercom with the front door.

 

[Enter_Narne]

FederalistWeasel, I think my police buddies were saying that the intruder was shot by the home owner inside the home, then ran away and told their lawyers that the home owner shot them outside the home. In those cases it became their word against the home owners. The intruders would claim they were just walking along outside and the home owner shot him.

 

[Lonestar49]

Bad form

Quote: With these things in mind here is my question:
If I have that exterior front door set up with a silent alarm that sounds in the bedroom, should I leave that door unlocked at night?
---------------
...

*Leave the front door unlocked at night, so your alarm will sound in your bedroom ?

therefore, you're in good justification to, invite in, (make a way easy, for trouble) and take action ?

Hmmm, then don't bother locking your car and, might as well leave them the keys, in it, as well, as your car-alarm (if it, too, doesn't fail) will alert you, and you can run and take action, as well.. *(same principal)

I really don't believe this thread..


LS

 

[Enter_Narne]

Okay. From the replies that I'm getting I gather that you all are saying to lock the front door. Thank you.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

FederalistWeasel, I think my police buddies were saying that the intruder was shot by the home owner inside the home, then ran away and told their lawyers that the home owner shot them outside the home. In those cases it became their word against the home owners. The intruders would claim they were just walking along outside and the home owner shot him.

Still, even faced with that there would still be indisputable evidence of a gunshot being fired inside the house as well as considerable blood spatter.

The pattern, size, shape, and the location of such evidence can be very useful in the reconstruction of the events that occurred.

Gunshot wounds even those w/o an exit still produce high velocity projected blood spatter patterns which are very hard to fake.

There is even a mathematical formula which we are taught in crime scene school to determine the exact impact angle and from that we can tell you exactly where the person was standing at the exact time the wound was received.

So don't worry if the dirt bag runs off, it just means you'll have less blood and crap to clean up after the body is removed by the CST.

 

[Leanwolf]

ENTER NARNE - "I think my police buddies were saying that the intruder was shot by the home owner inside the home, then ran away and told their lawyers that the home owner shot them outside the home."

E.N., again, some misleading information from your "cop" friend.

I don't know if you have ever seen someone who was shot, but I have. It's bloody.

If you shoot someone in your home, merely wounding him/her, I guarantee you there will be some blood (forensic evidence) inside your house, and that blood's type & DNA will perfectly match the wounded bandit who fled the scene.

His/her lies against you won't stand up for ten seconds, once the detectives and forensic people examine where the shooting took place in your home.

FWIW.

L.W.

 

[Enter_Narne]

I don't think it was my police friends being stupid. I think it was my fears playing with my head. I had not considered all the things that you all are pointing out. I'm glad that you all have helped me calm those fears. The only other thing I fear besides losing my family to death is losing my family's well being... either by us being dragged through a court battle by a wounded intruder or by a prosecutor with an agenda. Even if a home owner is innocent they can be dragged through long court battle that can damage the family's spirit.

Either way I am against crime. And I have not said I will commit a crime to defend my family. My fears have played on my mind in this matter. Please do not interpret this thread as a formula for vigilantism. I am now sorry for posting this thread because it has exposed this fear.

 

[TallPine]

If you're going to have double doors with an "airlock" or foyer between, build a two story house and put a trap door in the 2nd story floor over the "airlock". That way you can pour boiling oil down on the intruders.

 

[Lonestar49]

This makes sense

Quote: I think it was my fears playing with my head. I had not considered all the things that you all are pointing out. I'm glad that you all have helped me calm those fears. The only other thing I fear besides losing my family to death is losing my family's well being... either by us being dragged through a court battle by a wounded intruder or by a prosecutor with an agenda. Even if a home owner is innocent they can be dragged through long court battle that can damage the family's spirit.
------------
...

Just don't take their word/s as fact, or truth, in that, as mentioned, dragging a BG back inside the house, means many things, but it would come to haunt you, both mind wise, the truth, and the law-wise.. Even I have been told that by local PD, if you shoot a BG at your door (outside) drag him inside, but they are saying, don't, but if you do, and you think you can do it without getting caught, you might (but God help you if you shot him in the back, laid the body wrong, he bled and you cleaned it up, cause they can test for blood washed clean off, and see a "trail") as I agree, the Courts, DA's, the law, can tear ones peace of mind, family, financial resources apart. As we all have seen the BG's get caught, shot, and then turn around and sue, and win.. and that is the scary thing about our Court system, where common sense is not taken, but what both lawyers can show, in, and by, laws, that a Jury or Judge, will have to side against you, even though, the BG started it by showing up, breaking in, harming you or a family member, etc., and that sucks, as in MY book, once a person decides to "break a law", then he forfeits his rights at the same time.. but we all know that's not the case.

Having to much fear, can wreak havoc on one's self, in that, it will be a never ending thought..

Study the laws, of HD/SD (they offer these along with gun handling and training, at the same time, 1 and 2 day courses for beginners with guns, self-defence, so you know what you can do, and what you should not do, cannot do, etc..

I applaud your honesty here, about your fear, as many guise it in other forms of questions, without really getting the most out of the responses, and that is what counts.. IMHO.

Just remember this: "Your very best thinking, got you (and now, your family) where you are today.." So, you've done something right.. no?

So, without guns, without any house or apartment alarms, pets/gaurd dog, or, if you did have these, you did something right as not to have been bitten, per say, by any BG's or criminals.. thus far, and that falls under luck, fate, blessings, good planning, etc.

Time, and education, practice, and some faith, asking (more defined, direct) questions, will give you more peace of mind up the road.. IMHO.

Best of luck,


LS

 

[Fred Fuller]

Narne,

Why let 'em get all the way to the house without having to work at it (and break a law or three on the way)? Why start your layers of security at your outer door/windows/walls? If it's your dream house, dream yourself up some fences and gates and dogs while you're at it. If they can't get to the house in the first place, you won't have to shoot 'em for home invading.

And find someone reliable to get legal advice from while you're at it. Your current source(es) REEK.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[Enter_Narne]

Lonestar, Thank you very much for taking the time to understand my mindset. It's not everyday I reveal this much about myself. Thanks for all your advice.

 

[Enter_Narne]

Lee, That's good thinking. The landscape and perimeter barrier should be the first layer of home defense. I totally forgot about that. Thanks

 

[thexrayboy]

An entry way with a dead air space in between is an excellent energy conservation measure. If not constructed with physical force in mind it will only serve as a minimal inconvenience to intruders. If they can force the outer door open they can probably force the inner door open unless you construct it in a much sturdier fashion. Unless you really want that energy saving advantage its probably just as good to construct a single entry door and make it extremely sturdy. Steel or metal clad members around the frame.
Solid metal door and heavy duty hinges and hardware properly installed. If
you plan for it at the time of construction it won't add too much to the cost...retrofit and you could be talking big bucks.

As for the "advice" about dragging bodies etc? Forget it. Any competent forensics personnel will have no trouble identifying the evidence tampering and your a$$ will then be in a mighty big sling. If the forensics people are incompetent you have a whole different nightmare on your hands.
If you shoot someone in your house, near your house or anywhere else for that matter TOUCH NOTHING...allow no one else to touch anything. Call 911
give them the basic facts needed to initiate a response and then lawyer up.

 

[Kevin108]

The air lock is only sort of a good idea. My apartment is setup this way. I have a front door at ground level with nothing inside but stairs to the 2nd floor and my front door. I'm the only unit accessible by these stairs.

To me this "airlock" becomes a place for someone to break into and hide then attack you once you're inside and out of sight and hearing range of others. Your layout might be different, of course, but I would stick with one front door, steel, reinforced jambs, etc.

 

[vynx]

Have you ever seen the metal (wrought iron?) cages that some Jewelery shops use?

I have seen them in Gun shops also...basically, you enter the outside door and you are in a wrought iron cage and you have to be buzzed to get in or out of that cage.

I had a house one time that had a short hallway maybe 5 or 6 feet that you had to enter before knocking on the front door - I thought about putting an metal screen door at the entrance to it so a visitor would have to ring a doorbell to get me to buzz them in - then after the metal screen door (the security kind) closed behind them I could look out the peepwhole before letting them in the house - I figured it would be a great way to keep salesman and religious doorknockers away.

Now I have a fence around my entire yard and I just padlock the front gate works even better!

BTW, if you drag a body back into your house don't you think the police (think CSI) could tell that a body leaking blood had been dragged?
Thats just an old wives tale and should be disregarded as bad advice.

 

[JamisJockey]

Considering I just put a lot hold on the wife's dream house, I found the title of this thread interesting....then I read it.....


What EN is proposing is a foyer with doors at both ends, much like the entrance into a bank or something. The hole in the plot is WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE IN THERE WITH THE CRIMINAL? Don't you think that most criminals are probably better at CQB hand to hand than you? Why on earth would you want to locked into a small space with a potential criminal?
Instead, you need an intercom and CCTV system on the front door. Your property should be well lit. You should have motion detectors on lights that aren't frequently in use. Do not leave tools, ladders or construction materials on your lot. Use a driveway chime to alert you that someone has entered your drive.
My suggestion is you completely scrap your "plan" an start over.