Home Invasions

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Interesting read, and replys IMO..

Only gonna say a few things about Home Defence. Like Dog Daddy, I too have always had a Big Dog or 2, throughout my life from 19yrs on for HD, SD, and my German Shepherds have never let me down. They are the first line in defence, whoever comes up the driveway, knocks on the door, etc. One actually saved my life (without any command) as a guy on drugs, sucker punched me, and the lights went out, only to come back on to a dark figure going back in forth in front of me, and when my eyesight came fully back online, the A.. hole was up against a wall, and looked like he had gone fully dressed, thru a garbage grinder.. It was beautiful.

But, having weapons, whether rifles, guns, semi or even (undeclared) full autos, is a good and smart thing in today's world. Some day, somewhere, to many people, a big natural disaster is going to hit your area, and the value of your water, food, valuables, your women, anything you own in your home, is gonna be up for grabs when the mob-mentality starts up, and it will, and they come your way.

Like here in So. Calif, if and when, we get a big enough Earthquake, the infrastructure is gonna be out for some time, and one's only game plan will be with his own planning and knowing his neighbors, and circle the wagons, so to speak.

As for wearing a helmet for everyday life.. Sounds like Chicken Little talking.


LS
 
Thanks Skeeter1,
that's interesting.
More reading.

PotatoeJudge,
I think you're right, unfortunately. lol.

230RN, hitting the google button is something I did try myself.
But, it's going to return a massive pile of results.
That's why I thought, on a gun forum, there might be some gun owners who've already considered these issues and could help jump to the more relevant (and reliable) information.
 
...

I forgot, I don't have all the statistics, but a few I know.

If your house gets robbed, it is likely to be robbed again within 90 days.

If you have kids, the chances of home invasion are great, with inside-information that spreads among children/kids..

And, come any future Halloween days, and "nights".. think about just opening up your door each time the bell rings, or the knock comes, and all you see are little kids with eager faces, yet, when you open the door and see young adults, too old for trick or treating, really, standing there with costumes and masks on, with bags, looking into your house, what they might be thinking..


Be alert for days/nights of opportunity that give many a way to approach houses, and business's, for hours, with perfect means to disguise who they really are, and what they really want.



LS
 
cra2

PotatoeJudge,
I think you're right, unfortunately. lol.
"they're questions gunnies don't want to be asked... When they can't answer it, well, you see what happens."
Click to expand...

cra2, my apologies.

From this point on in this thread I will assume your motives to be above board, and will respond from that perspective. I'm also sorry if I gave the impression that I was not interested in the results of your question. As much as I distrust stats (even baseball stats! steroids, ya know), I still find them useful as a jumping off point to more reliable information.

That said, let me give you my thought process on why I took you for a "troll" in your OP, in hopes that you'll avoid stating things the way you did in the future. If you'll go back and look at your original post, you'll see 6 "paragraphs". Of the 6, only one was completely neutral. The other 5 either pre-chastised the members here to not reply except in a manner approved by you, or were statements of exactly the type you didn't want to hear from anyone else! In other words, don't tell me to give you only stats, when you're feeding me anecdotes and jabs.

I hope we are able to communicate on higher ground in the future.
 
damn it, gonna break my own admonition.

There's statistics, and then there's the folks that come take my CCW class after being victimized. Or come and buy a home defense gun from me, after they spent twenty minutes pushed up against their bedroom door, while a crazy guy slammed into it over and over and over trying to get inside, and that poor person could do nothing buy lay there because she had no weapon, couldn't reach the phone, and wouldn't have time to summon help before the bad guy came through the door anyway. There's the folks that break down, tears streaming down their cheeks, while they tell me about how they were victimized, or raped, or beaten, or robbed, and they couldn't do a damn thing about it.

I don't know if there are any statistics for the home invasion robbery that happened in the neighborhood just north of me. I know the people involved. The bad guys picked the wrong apartment. The person that lived there before had kept drugs in the home.

There were two male roommates, in their early twenties. One female (girlfriend) was visiting. 2nd floor apartment. Knock on the door. Door unlocked, and then kicked in. The three individuals were unarmed.

Three bad guys with weapons. The ductaped the two men to chairs, and proceeded to beat them mercilessly, while screaming where are the drugs, where are the drugs. Well, there weren't any drugs. So the bad guys decided to take the girlfriend into the bedroom and take turns raping her.

At this point, one of the young men did the only thing he could think of. He stood up, still tied to the chair, and dove through the glass door onto the balcony, and then over the railing. He fell from the 2nd story and hit the ground. Somebody in one of the other 1st floor apartments heard the impact and called the police. The bad guys fled.

Oh, but I supposed when those two young men bought guns from me, they must have just wanted to take up shooting? And the home defense thing was just an excuse.

My wife pulled a gun on a would be rapist, in MY HOUSE. So I suppose that the guns I keep in my home must be just there to make me feel better? I should probably go back to worrying about those errant golf balls... She probably should have just got raped, because of course, we didn't have any statistics handy.

I have no formal statistics, but keep track of the interesting crime stories in my area, because I teach about this stuff. I know of half a dozen "home invasions" in the last year, that I can think of off the top of my head, and I live in UTAH, which is one of the more sedate areas of the country. Of course, these home invasions were high profile events, and this doesn't count how many times somebody broke into a home for things like robbery or rape.

In that same period, I'm drawing a total blank on golf ball killings... Go figure.

I almost had to shoot somebody in my front yard over ten years ago. Of course, the gun came out of my house. The only reason he didn't die was because he put his gun down before I pulled the trigger. Must have imagined that too.

I've had female students who emptied a .380 into a perp's head, when they woke up with the bad guy, ON TOP of them, in the dark, in their own bedroom.

Damn paranoids.

You starting to understand why maybe, just maybe, some of us find your question, and the following attitude that you copped as offensive, annoying, and trollish?
 
Unfortunately, I can’t access the CDC’s query service at the moment. As I mentioned earlier, though, there were less than 1,000 fatal shooting accidents in A.D. 2003, which you can verify at your leisure. For the same year, the FBI reports 16,528 murders out of nearly 1.4 million violent crimes. I’m sure home invasions account for only a small fraction of these, but the firearm accidents are statistically irrelevant.

I’ve been in three minor car accidents. My childhood home was burglarized. I’ve suffered several minor assaults. My new truck was also hit by an errant golf ball. I wear my seatbelt religiously, I keep my doors locked most of the time, and I take notice when people start waving golf clubs around off the links. Oh, and I keep my firearms secured when not in use.

Do I think the guys who stash unsecured firearms all over their homes are exercising prudent home defense? No. Would I force them to do otherwise? Hell no. Would I advise them to just holster their sidearms? You bet.

~G. Fink
 
If you'll go back and look at your original post, you'll see 6 "paragraphs". Of the 6, only one was completely neutral. The other 5 either pre-chastised the members here to not reply except in a manner approved by you, or were statements of exactly the type you didn't want to hear from anyone else! In other words, don't tell me to give you only stats, when you're feeding me anecdotes and jabs.
Click to expand...

yes, well, the reason for having to "coach" my question is that I've seen several requests for information on these forums get "buried" in personal disputes and "my gun/tactic/caliber is better than yours" debates.

I had hoped to emphasize the desire for a fact-based discussion rather than opinions and debates. However, in doing so I wound up inviting the very problem I was trying to avoid. lol. Self-fulfilling prophecy, eh?

As for "pre-chastising".. heh.. setting ground-rules for a discussion hardly sounds like chastisement. If someone objected to the ground-rules, they merely had to walk away, as the moderator pointed out. Suggesting boundaries for an activity ("no opinions please") is no different than Walmart putting up a sign that says, "No Smoking Please" - the customers are not being chastized. lol.

I gave anecdotes specifically to point out that these are random and/or silly things I had "heard" before. And thus, to prove/disprove them, I specifically asked that we NOT go that route and that we seek stats.

The "ak vs. ar-15" debates will go on endlessly. As will the "shotgun vs handgun for home defense", or the "9mm vs .40". I didn't want this to turn into another one of those.
 
I know this is not a large sample, but I just did a quick search on the local newspaper's website. I looked for results from 2007 only.

First I searched for articles with the phrase "golf ball". Any kind of article. No hits.

Then I searched for articles with the words "robbery", "shooting" and "handgun". Five hits. Two were somewhat pertinent to the topic:

Date: January 26, 2007
Author: David Kihara
Section: City
Page: 3B
Words: 419

Jewelry store owner shoots suspect in robbery

By DAVID KIHARA REVIEW-JOURNAL

The jewelry store owner said he knew he had to take action.


About 6:30 p.m. Wednesday, a robber was pointing a gun at him in the back office area of Jose & Martha Jewelry, 4550 E. Bonanza Road near Lamb Boulevard. A second man was pointing a gun at his wife, who was lying on the floor of the store, while a woman accomplice was trying to grab up all the jewelry in the store, said Jose, who refused to give his last name.

He said he
Complete article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: January 16, 2007
Author: Antonio Planas and Francis McCa
Section: City
Page: 1B
Words: 608

Store owner recounts incident in which intruder was killed

By ANTONIO PLANAS and FRANCIS McCABE

REVIEW-JOURNAL

The knocking on the back door of La Corona Furniture in North Las Vegas on Thursday night was unsettling to Javier.

"I knew there was something that wasn't quite right," said the 38-year-old owner of the small business, located in a strip mall at Lake Mead Boulevard and Civic Center Drive.

It was just after 8 p.m., and the store was already closed. Javier, who would not give his last name,
Complete article



-----------------------------
I hope this is useful to your cause.
 
Gee. What a fun thread! cra2, let me clarify. I apologize for asking you to read between the lines. The hurricane reference was to point out that there are other eventualities which indicate the need for an armed response other than the classic home invasion. Your OP seemed to suggest that if home invasions are extraordinarily rare, then the purchase of HD weapons is misguided. I respectfully disagree. On the other hand, I fully believe that there were in fact many classic home invasions which both took place and were thwarted by the presence or absence of armed residents in the hurricane affected areas. Statistics to prove it? You won't find them for that specific situation or your general question either. I Googled the topic and learned that much in about five minutes. Let us know if you learn differently. One other thing, I use the old temporary plywood version of storm shutters if the need arises. Hope this helps. :rolleyes:
 
Is this insufficient? It's the gateway to FBI crime statistics for 2005. You can also find 2006 numbers, however they're marked "preliminary" and thus shouldn't be considered too heavily until finalized.

A few quotes:

"Of all burglary offenses in 2005, 65.8 percent were of residential structures."

"An examination of 5- and 10-year trends revealed a 1.8-percent increase in the number of burglaries compared with the 2001 estimate, and a 14.1-percent decline from the 1996 number."

"Burglary accounted for 21.2 percent of the estimated number of property crimes committed in 2005."

"Most (62.4 percent) of residential burglaries in 2005 for which time of occurrence was known took place during the day, between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m."

"Among burglaries of nonresidential structures when time of occurrence was known, 58.0 percent occurred at night."
 
If you had verifiable statistics you could theoretically come up with the odds of an event occurring.

In the case of Home Invasions, the odds concern me far less than the stakes.
 
thank you Trip20.

though now you're making me realize I was lumping Burglary in with Home Invasion. Looking it up, it appears as though a burglary is stealing from a place (business or home), while home invasion is going into a home with the intent to commit a crime.

thus, anyone who comes in the home for criminal purposes is a home invader.

I'll have to look further into the stat you gave and see if they break out home invasions at all. I mean they have burglary and murder and stuff.
Wonder if they specifically have Home Invasion. Or specifically break down burglary and murder by location (such as Residence).
 
Here is another link to FBI crime statistics that are broken down by state. Unfortunately, home invasions are not broken out as a separate category, but the statistics provided can be used to quantify the possibilities of something happening if you so desire. However, after reading posts such as the one by Correia above, and realizing that I could add an incident or two to it, as could everyone else here in all probability, I realize that for me the question has nothing to do with probabilities, but everything to do with possibilities. It does no good to say that the chances of a life devastating event are very small when you are talking to someone to whom it has happened. I have done so, and I am far from alone here.
 
sistema,

what does ownership have to do with whether or not "stats please" is chastising???? lol.

Requesting certain information is not "punishment" - the definition of chastise.

If you feel that you're unable to contribute because you don't know of any source for such stats, I'm sorry that makes you feel like I'm punishing you or censoring you. But I'm not - start your own thread and call it "thoughts on home invastion" and I'm sure you'll have tons of lovely stories.

But your (continued) posts fail to have anything to do with the original request. Stats regarding Home Invasions.

Next time you post a request for information or present a new topic, I'm going to get on there and post (several times) some random stuff about houses and trolls and drano and completely avoid giving you any useful information. See how you like it. lol.
 
thanks Knothead.

wonder if the NRA would have specific stats like that.
For lobbying purposes, I bet they would have.

If the state of Florida can tell me the statistical odds of getting hit by lightning, why can't the po-po tell me the odds of getting "invaded"?
lol
 
The FBI Crime Statistics link posted by Trip20 is the ultimate response to cra2's "perfectly reasonable" question. The question becomes less academic and more real if you check the statistics close to where you live; for example it took about 2 min to query the database from the jurisdiction where I live (King County WA) for 2006. The following stats are from the bedroom community (to remain nameless) just north of where I live :

CRIME SUMMARY

Criminal Homicide 1
Forcible Rape 4
Robbery 2
Aggravated Assault 18
Burglary, Commercial 32
Burglary, Residential 53
Larceny, over $250 83
Larceny, under $250 117
Vehicle Theft 49
Arson 8

There are several golf courses in the vicinity but no statistics on beanings by a golf ball.
 
This thread still looks contentious! I think why you are getting opinion as well as some fact is because the start point of the thread opened the way for such. Rather than simply request factual materials (links) many of the statements are tantimount to "affirmation bias". This site isn't so different from gardening or farming...if you sow corn, you reap corn. If you sow affirmation bias or opionion, such you shall reap,

"I've heard that most of us (suburbanites in mid-class neighborhoods) have better chances of getting killed by a golf ball than a 'home invader.'
Yet, we'll spend COUNTLESS hours and THOUSANDS of dollars on our arsenal of bedside weapons and not $25 on a helmet to wear around outside."

Doc2005
 
Golf balls kill more people than guns do. lol.

A 10-yr old killed by golf ball
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE0D6163BF93BA15752C1A96F948260

16-yr old Girl killed by golf ball
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1519352.htm

Apparently, a golf ball can even kill a friggin cow. lol.
(according to the Golfer's Handbook)
http://www.golftoday.co.uk/noticeboard/messages/index.html

Plus, didn't you know - golf balls cause epilepsy?
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2000/B/200001080.html

From now on - I'm carrying my gun around golf courses.
 
wonder if the NRA would have specific stats like that.
For lobbying purposes, I bet they would have.
Click to expand...

I don't think that they do, but they will often quote that a certain percentage of home break-ins are "hot", (i.e. homeowner present at time of event). I don't recall what the number was but it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 16%, I think, while in lightly armed England it is over 60%. Anyone here want to chime in with the precise numbers?
 
Doc2005,

my VERY POINT in saying silly things (like golf balls rumors) was that I had only "heard" such things, and thus, with facts, we might be able to get beyond heresay and into reality.

I also "heard" over and over how a .223 was the best home defense round because it won't penetrate much walls. The box 'o truth, and others like him, proved that wrong with actual performance data.
 
If I remember correctley a string of Home Invasions was stopped in detroit by two people with AK's. They kept them loaded by the door and seen the criminals pull in their driveway. When they kicked in the door the two people unloaded on them and shot one 3-4 times, then his fellow criminal friends left him for dead. So he snitched on them all.
 
A very simple, 30 second, Google search.

Crimes reported in Multnomah County Oregon
Crime 2000

[ Arrests ] [ Crimes reported ] [ Back to Multnomah County, Oregon ]

Statistics presented are based on data collected by the FBI as part of its Uniform Crime Reporting Program. These data represent offenses reported to and arrests made by State and local law enforcement agencies as reported to the FBI. These data do not include Federal law enforcement activity. Additionally, not all law enforcement agencies consistently report offense and arrest data to the FBI. Users should refer to the Coverage Indicator for the proportion of the population covered by the agencies reporting to the FBI.

[ Caution ] [ Coverage ] [ Definitions of crimes ]

Crime Number (Estimate)
Total 49,148
Murder 22
Rape 446
Robbery 1,580
Aggravated Assault 4,127
Burglary 6,694
Larceny - theft 29,927
Motor vehicle thefts 5,800
Coverage indicator 99%

Data provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data, University of Michigan

Population statistics are based on data provided by the FBI and may differ from similar statistics reported by the Census Bureau. Population statistics generated by the FBI are used to calculate crime rates and to estimate the proportion of the population covered by the UCR program.
Click to expand...

You will note that the data is not broken down to the extent you would desire. Statistically, "home invasions", entry with the knowledge that residents are on the property as opposed to breaking into an home considered to be unoccupied (burglary), are a relatively new phenomenom.

No Golf Deaths reported for Oregon. However, golf courses are installing defibulators (sp?). I suppose this is a bit like owning a gun in case you need it.
 
I want to own a gun just on the fact that IT CAN HAPPEN...most people live their hole lives with out being in a car accident but you still wear your seat belt. It can and when it does I want to be prepared
 
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