almo
Member
dang.
Last edited:
Home Security - Window Film
- Thread starter StorkPatrol
- Start date
- Status
seriously man. i love all the information that an open forum can offer about different products and ideas... but be honest with people. if you work for the company at least say so....
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/al-montgomery/7/163/ab9
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/al-montgomery/7/163/ab9
sheepdog
Member
That's dirty...
Al MontgomeryFounder of Shatter Safe Security Window Films
Athens, Georgia Area
"...I called the sales team at Shatter Safe to get the lowdown..." you sure did, didn't you...shame...
...Oh, well....at least he wasn't tryin' to sell vacuum cleaners....
Al MontgomeryFounder of Shatter Safe Security Window Films
Athens, Georgia Area
"...I called the sales team at Shatter Safe to get the lowdown..." you sure did, didn't you...shame...
...Oh, well....at least he wasn't tryin' to sell vacuum cleaners....
Last edited:
Defense Minister
Member
I've been wanting to do the film thing to my windows for some time, but it can get rather expensive, even if you do the job yourself. A window tinting business in town quoted me $275 just for my sliding glass door, and they told me I would have to caulk the edge myself. I checked the Shattersafe website, and their patio door kit was $288, just for the material. What I found in my research when I first looked into it is that it's better to have a professional do the job.
If you do go with a film on your windows, regardless of which brand, you must caulk the edge with a high strength silicone caulk. I'd recommend the Dow 995 Silicone Caulk specifically made for tempered glass. You need something that will hold the glass to the window frame upon impact.
If you do go with a film on your windows, regardless of which brand, you must caulk the edge with a high strength silicone caulk. I'd recommend the Dow 995 Silicone Caulk specifically made for tempered glass. You need something that will hold the glass to the window frame upon impact.
Last edited:
almo
Member
jigs up.
Last edited:
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
almo, you need to consider your answer to this question very, very carefully and you should reply with a yes or a no. Are you affiliated in any way with ShatterSafe.com, ShatterSafe.ca, or any other make, distributor, or retailer of window film?
JMusic
member
"Keep your stick on the ice"! Not sure that ain't a challange Jorg.
Jim
Jim
Last edited:
almo
Member
Nope...
"Keep yer stick on the ice" to me means to always be prepared and ready to take your shot.
Nothing more.
As for who I am... I am coming clean and admitting yes.. I am with Shatter Safe Security Window Films. Pardon me for trying to "pull one over" on you guys and frankly though, it was the first time I tried something like that, and of course failed at the disguise miserably.
I promise not to try and "dupe" this board any longer, and if you can accept the fact that I indeed do have the balls to come clean so to speak.. please accept my apology and I swear to be 100% up front.
Questions, concerns. please contact me directly.
Cheers
Al Montgomery
Founder
Shatter Safe Security Window Films.
PS... ANYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD ASSOCIATED with a window film company. I bet my ex father in -laws Buffalo Bill Hexagon Barrel rifle on it.
"Keep yer stick on the ice" to me means to always be prepared and ready to take your shot.
Nothing more.
As for who I am... I am coming clean and admitting yes.. I am with Shatter Safe Security Window Films. Pardon me for trying to "pull one over" on you guys and frankly though, it was the first time I tried something like that, and of course failed at the disguise miserably.
I promise not to try and "dupe" this board any longer, and if you can accept the fact that I indeed do have the balls to come clean so to speak.. please accept my apology and I swear to be 100% up front.
Questions, concerns. please contact me directly.
Cheers
Al Montgomery
Founder
Shatter Safe Security Window Films.
PS... ANYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD ASSOCIATED with a window film company. I bet my ex father in -laws Buffalo Bill Hexagon Barrel rifle on it.
sheepdog
Member
...nothing like a "caught me red-handed" "confession".....
almo
Member
Hey... I could have just tucked my tail between my legs and skulked away swearing and complaing 
and you would all simply ASSUME that I was caught....
Soooooo... caught red handed or not with my hand in the cookie jar.. was still total speculation and I could have gone around and around trying to dig deeper and deeper and pile on the BS.. but... I did not.
BETCHA.... others don't or won't do the same.
and you would all simply ASSUME that I was caught.... Soooooo... caught red handed or not with my hand in the cookie jar.. was still total speculation and I could have gone around and around trying to dig deeper and deeper and pile on the BS.. but... I did not.
BETCHA.... others don't or won't do the same.
sheepdog
Member
...oh, ALRIGHT...but don't bother cleaning your chimney this year...I told...
JMusic
member
This is JORG's call. As High Road members we support our moderators. I'm not giving almo the sweat off my, well, I'm looking for moderator advise.
Jim
Jim
almo
Member
ok ok.. ok...
So.... tell ya what. If anyone needs advise on security window films for either your business, residence or vehicle I will give that advise honestly and openly either through this forum or through private messages.
If anyone happens to want to utilize our products.. and honestly.. they are very good products and are very highly regarded by many levels of government and a ton of regular folks..... I am willing ( cause I own the company) willing to pay for my transgression to capital expense. I can either offer a discount to Highroad members, or Shatter Safe will make a donation from each order from Highroad members to a registered charity of their choice. ( especially if it is the S.P.C.A.)
Al
So.... tell ya what. If anyone needs advise on security window films for either your business, residence or vehicle I will give that advise honestly and openly either through this forum or through private messages.
If anyone happens to want to utilize our products.. and honestly.. they are very good products and are very highly regarded by many levels of government and a ton of regular folks..... I am willing ( cause I own the company) willing to pay for my transgression to capital expense. I can either offer a discount to Highroad members, or Shatter Safe will make a donation from each order from Highroad members to a registered charity of their choice. ( especially if it is the S.P.C.A.)
Al
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
Alright guys, Al and I hashed this out in PM and he is going to stay and share his expertise while being open about his affiliation. We have folks in various industries who can provide us great insight that post on this forum and those members have shared much with the board over the years. At the same time, we don't want to turn this into a forum pushing wares under the false pretenses. Al made a mistake that many people have done on this and many other forums. Let's move on to the topic at hand.
almo,
Please discuss how tinted window coatings can lead to damaging double-paned glass by absorbing heat into the panes and causing the inert gas seals to break. This will void all warranties by window manufacturers.
Please also discuss whether your untinted version may also cause this to happen.
Do you warranty damage caused to double-pane glass caused by your coating material?
I think that everyone needs to be aware of potential issues and costs.
Please discuss how tinted window coatings can lead to damaging double-paned glass by absorbing heat into the panes and causing the inert gas seals to break. This will void all warranties by window manufacturers.
Please also discuss whether your untinted version may also cause this to happen.
Do you warranty damage caused to double-pane glass caused by your coating material?
I think that everyone needs to be aware of potential issues and costs.
JMusic
member
Al will set this straight but you need to quit thinking about glass now and more about how to contain membranes. Because that is what you have made with the film. Caulking alone will not protect a near large blast. You need to know what your largest danger is and buy product for that.
Jim
Jim
Pieceofmind2100
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2009
- Messages
- 4
really? another? FWIW shatterguard seems to only sell a complete installation service, not just the window film
come on Al, then why do we want you to answer questions?
but seriously. if you apply this film w/out attaching it to the frame... and it seems that all makers recommend an approx 2mm gap between edge of film and frame... what keeps the entire panel of glass from breaking out along that gap?
i assume that all the public demonstrations shown with this stuff have either the Dow caulking or the film placed over the entire pane before being set in a window frame... it seems that each company has their own "proprietary attachment system" along with the film...
hey Al, want to send out some samples? i would love to test your product alongside some of the other brands i have received....
FWIW shatterguard seems to only sell a complete installation service, not just the window filmcome on Al, then why do we want you to answer questions?
but seriously. if you apply this film w/out attaching it to the frame... and it seems that all makers recommend an approx 2mm gap between edge of film and frame... what keeps the entire panel of glass from breaking out along that gap?
i assume that all the public demonstrations shown with this stuff have either the Dow caulking or the film placed over the entire pane before being set in a window frame... it seems that each company has their own "proprietary attachment system" along with the film...
hey Al, want to send out some samples? i would love to test your product alongside some of the other brands i have received....
JMusic
member
CWL Double pane glass has a vacuum between the panes. The hot summer sun can warm the seals to the point of failing.
Jim
Jim
almo
Member
If you ask a question, you have to wait for me to answer the question even if it's a few hours or even a day later. k?
With respect to TSF or (Thermal Seal Failure).. this is a condition that can occur when the gas between the panes of glass heats up to such a temperature that the bottom corner of the glass will crack and thus the window breaks, and is typically called Thermal Seal Failure.
There are a couple of things that can cause this and the most common being dark window film or tinted film placed on the glass especially where the glass is facing the sun most of the day. The dark film is the most common problem when film is applied because it absorbs the heat and CAN lead to failure of the seal. Sometimes it does not break the glass, but simply weaken the seal itself, and this leads to moisture between the panes.
Let's get this part out of the way first...... Using the wrong product MAY lead to thermal seal failure. NO COMPANY will warrant against thermal seal failure including my own company unless you purchase a separate policy of sorts "insuring against this issue".
Shatter Safe has never had an issue with thermal seal failure ever because we generally only sell clear security window films that won't lead to failure or silver reflective films that again won't lead to failure.
Nuff of this.... cause I know most of you will just scan to the end....
The idea of security window film is to do a couple of things.... delay unlawful entry to an area by slowing the perp down, or by holding most of the glass together during seismic events or bomb blast.
On to the stuff about frame locking.... Frame locking is when you apply the film to the glass, and you "lock it in" by using a product called Dow Corning 995. This locks the film to the glass, and the glass to the frame of the structure thereby making it stronger all around the edges so it doesn't just flop in. This is more typical in commercial applications and is what we do for the U.S. Federal Govt projects.
Shatter Safe Security Window Films are utilized on some of America's most important buildings and as well, on my own home.
That's all for now.. I am off work and my Bud is getting warm.
Al
With respect to TSF or (Thermal Seal Failure).. this is a condition that can occur when the gas between the panes of glass heats up to such a temperature that the bottom corner of the glass will crack and thus the window breaks, and is typically called Thermal Seal Failure.
There are a couple of things that can cause this and the most common being dark window film or tinted film placed on the glass especially where the glass is facing the sun most of the day. The dark film is the most common problem when film is applied because it absorbs the heat and CAN lead to failure of the seal. Sometimes it does not break the glass, but simply weaken the seal itself, and this leads to moisture between the panes.
Let's get this part out of the way first...... Using the wrong product MAY lead to thermal seal failure. NO COMPANY will warrant against thermal seal failure including my own company unless you purchase a separate policy of sorts "insuring against this issue".
Shatter Safe has never had an issue with thermal seal failure ever because we generally only sell clear security window films that won't lead to failure or silver reflective films that again won't lead to failure.
Nuff of this.... cause I know most of you will just scan to the end....
The idea of security window film is to do a couple of things.... delay unlawful entry to an area by slowing the perp down, or by holding most of the glass together during seismic events or bomb blast.
On to the stuff about frame locking.... Frame locking is when you apply the film to the glass, and you "lock it in" by using a product called Dow Corning 995. This locks the film to the glass, and the glass to the frame of the structure thereby making it stronger all around the edges so it doesn't just flop in. This is more typical in commercial applications and is what we do for the U.S. Federal Govt projects.
Shatter Safe Security Window Films are utilized on some of America's most important buildings and as well, on my own home.
That's all for now.. I am off work and my Bud is getting warm.
Al
so in your opinion... at least what i gather... window security film is less than useful w/out the Dow product. i would hate to have the window hit and have it all "flop in" in one piece
hell, were that the case i'd rather have a couple glass shards left in there so some sucker could get cut up coming through.
hell, were that the case i'd rather have a couple glass shards left in there so some sucker could get cut up coming through.
I'm actually rather interested in the idea of 'frame locking'. I've avoided reinforcing the weakest areas of my home with security film due to the fact that the entire pane will pretty much just break away from the frame if a determined individual made an attempt. I assumed the only alternative was lamination during construction.
Using a chemical sealant to bond (?) the laminate, glass, and frame is interesting, but does seem... unlikely to be that strong. Also, the strength of the bond would be dependent on the frame material I assume? Does going to this level of installation incur much greater costs?
Using a chemical sealant to bond (?) the laminate, glass, and frame is interesting, but does seem... unlikely to be that strong. Also, the strength of the bond would be dependent on the frame material I assume? Does going to this level of installation incur much greater costs?
i believe the Dow product mentioned is spec'd for hurricane areas and is quite a strong silicone... my feeling is the weak point would be in the attachment to the frame... seems it would have to be clean and completely free of paint, dust, dirt, etc... which is difficult for older houses i would imagine.
plus it comes in white and black, and the spec'd level of overlap is about 1/8'' frame 1/8'' film... Thats a helluva bead of caulk to lay down and have it not look like turd
plus it comes in white and black, and the spec'd level of overlap is about 1/8'' frame 1/8'' film... Thats a helluva bead of caulk to lay down and have it not look like turd
almo
Member
ok.. I don't sell Dow Corning 995, but it is the only daylight application
The window without the film won't simply "flop down". It would have to be peeled back, but at the same time it still has to be smashed repeatedly and that sound alone will detract most burglars.
You asked for it.....
Dow Corning 995 silicone installation techniques
This attaching system is used to anchor the edges of the film and to hold the glass in the window frame. This creates a protective system that helps absorb energy and allow the window frame to still bend and twist. If the glass breaks it will remain adhered to the film and to the frame increasing personal safety. Dow Corning 995 silicone structural adhesive offers high tensile strength of 150 psi and tear strength of 49 ppi. This is the only approved sealant for impact/ hurricane structural glazing standards and meets bomb blast requirements.
The safety film should be applied for a “daylight” installation. The gasket between the frame and the glass needs to be cut back or removed and backer rod installed. This will expose the maximum amount of surface area close to the glass. Also, Dow 995 silicone will not adhere to gasket material. Application should form a triangular joint with a bite of 3/8 to 1/2in. of the film and 3/8 to 1/2in. of the frame. The exposed surface of the sealant should be flat and not concave.
There are two methods to apply the sealant. One is using painters tape and a putty knife or spatula to tool the sealant. This method is more time consuming but offers easy cleanup and better consistency. The other method is to free hand the sealant. This method requires much less set up but usually does not look as finished as the taped and tooled method and can leave gaps between sealant and frame/film. This also has a considerable learning curve to keep the sealant consistent with little cleanup.
Installation using tape method:
The window film and frame should be clean and dry. Use a half inch block to set the distance for the tape. Remember the half inch of adhesive on the frame area does not include the gasket or backer rod.
Once the frame and glass have been taped, the tip of your gun should be cut big enough so you can have material touch the tape on both frame and film, usually about 1 1/8 opening cut at about a 20° to 30° angle. Start in the corner and work around the glass. Hold the gun so the opening touches across from tape to tape. Lean back the gun about 10° to 15°. As you start dispensing material you should have a slight “ball” ahead of your tip, as you continue try to keep a consistent “ball” this will allow the material to flow deeper between the glass and frame reducing air gaps and the amount of tooling that will be required. As you approach a corner ease up on the gun and allow the material to “ooze” to the corner. As you rotate the gun around the corner, place the tip at the corner and slowly start running the material until you see “the ball” and continue around the frame. When you finish lift the gun slightly and back toward your last run to avoid stringing.
Now you may tool the sealant as necessary. Start by forming a 45° line in the corner. Always keep your tool at an angle and close to the sealant to avoid stringing. When completed, remove the tape. Keep the tape at a very narrow angle to the sealant to avoid stringing. Clean any excess sealant with a plastic razor blade or general purpose cleaner.
Installation using free hand method:
The window film and frame should be clean and dry. Use a half inch block to mark the distance to cut the caulking gun tip. Remember the half inch of adhesive on the frame area does not include the gasket or backer rod. The tip of your gun should be cut big enough so you can have material touch ½ inch on both frame and film, usually about 1 1/8 opening cut at about a 20° to 30° angle. Start in the corner and work around the glass. Hold the gun so the opening touches across your marks. Lean back the gun about 10° to 15°. As you start dispensing material you should have a slight “ball” ahead of your tip, as you continue try to keep a consistent “ball” this will allow the material to flow deeper between the glass and frame reducing air gaps and the amount of tooling that will be required. As you approach a corner ease up on the gun and allow the material to “ooze” to the corner and as you rotate the gun around the corner, place the tip at the corner and slowly start running the material until you see “the ball” and continue around the frame. When you finish lift the gun slightly and back toward your last run to avoid stringing. Clean any excess sealant with a plastic razor blade or general purpose cleaner.
Argh... ok ok.. I am tired now.... and my newest bud is now warm.. dammit.:banghead:
The window without the film won't simply "flop down". It would have to be peeled back, but at the same time it still has to be smashed repeatedly and that sound alone will detract most burglars.
You asked for it.....
Dow Corning 995 silicone installation techniques
This attaching system is used to anchor the edges of the film and to hold the glass in the window frame. This creates a protective system that helps absorb energy and allow the window frame to still bend and twist. If the glass breaks it will remain adhered to the film and to the frame increasing personal safety. Dow Corning 995 silicone structural adhesive offers high tensile strength of 150 psi and tear strength of 49 ppi. This is the only approved sealant for impact/ hurricane structural glazing standards and meets bomb blast requirements.
The safety film should be applied for a “daylight” installation. The gasket between the frame and the glass needs to be cut back or removed and backer rod installed. This will expose the maximum amount of surface area close to the glass. Also, Dow 995 silicone will not adhere to gasket material. Application should form a triangular joint with a bite of 3/8 to 1/2in. of the film and 3/8 to 1/2in. of the frame. The exposed surface of the sealant should be flat and not concave.
There are two methods to apply the sealant. One is using painters tape and a putty knife or spatula to tool the sealant. This method is more time consuming but offers easy cleanup and better consistency. The other method is to free hand the sealant. This method requires much less set up but usually does not look as finished as the taped and tooled method and can leave gaps between sealant and frame/film. This also has a considerable learning curve to keep the sealant consistent with little cleanup.
Installation using tape method:
The window film and frame should be clean and dry. Use a half inch block to set the distance for the tape. Remember the half inch of adhesive on the frame area does not include the gasket or backer rod.
Once the frame and glass have been taped, the tip of your gun should be cut big enough so you can have material touch the tape on both frame and film, usually about 1 1/8 opening cut at about a 20° to 30° angle. Start in the corner and work around the glass. Hold the gun so the opening touches across from tape to tape. Lean back the gun about 10° to 15°. As you start dispensing material you should have a slight “ball” ahead of your tip, as you continue try to keep a consistent “ball” this will allow the material to flow deeper between the glass and frame reducing air gaps and the amount of tooling that will be required. As you approach a corner ease up on the gun and allow the material to “ooze” to the corner. As you rotate the gun around the corner, place the tip at the corner and slowly start running the material until you see “the ball” and continue around the frame. When you finish lift the gun slightly and back toward your last run to avoid stringing.
Now you may tool the sealant as necessary. Start by forming a 45° line in the corner. Always keep your tool at an angle and close to the sealant to avoid stringing. When completed, remove the tape. Keep the tape at a very narrow angle to the sealant to avoid stringing. Clean any excess sealant with a plastic razor blade or general purpose cleaner.
Installation using free hand method:
The window film and frame should be clean and dry. Use a half inch block to mark the distance to cut the caulking gun tip. Remember the half inch of adhesive on the frame area does not include the gasket or backer rod. The tip of your gun should be cut big enough so you can have material touch ½ inch on both frame and film, usually about 1 1/8 opening cut at about a 20° to 30° angle. Start in the corner and work around the glass. Hold the gun so the opening touches across your marks. Lean back the gun about 10° to 15°. As you start dispensing material you should have a slight “ball” ahead of your tip, as you continue try to keep a consistent “ball” this will allow the material to flow deeper between the glass and frame reducing air gaps and the amount of tooling that will be required. As you approach a corner ease up on the gun and allow the material to “ooze” to the corner and as you rotate the gun around the corner, place the tip at the corner and slowly start running the material until you see “the ball” and continue around the frame. When you finish lift the gun slightly and back toward your last run to avoid stringing. Clean any excess sealant with a plastic razor blade or general purpose cleaner.
Argh... ok ok.. I am tired now.... and my newest bud is now warm.. dammit.:banghead:
- Status
