Home/self defense and old man winter

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
2,076
Location
Bemidji, MN
Winter is upon us again up here in Minnesota.

A quick check of my local weather tells me that the outside temp is 32 degrees Fahrenheit.

Sweatshirt weather for some, unlivable for others.

The wind is blowing at a brisk 24 mph causing me to shiver and my mind wander while I relax in my warm apartment. Its weather like this that causes a fellow to think.

My favorite carbine is an AK with a three point sling and a surefire flashlight.

My chosen sidearm is a Springfield XD sub-comp in 9mm.

As far as being cold weather guns I am satisfied with them. My Ak was designed with low temps in mind and I can run my XD with shooting mittens or gloves on.

But then I hear my neighbors apartment door doors slam and I look out my window into the busy street of the city and cringe.

If I was forced to fire that AK here, in this environment, the over penetration would be a huge risk to all these people. My Xd too, though not as much.

I do own a shotgun, (a Mossberg 500) and a 20" barreled AR-15 and sometimes wonder if I shouldn't switch to either of them as my primary "go to" gun.

After all, 0000 buck or a 55 grn soft point aren't nearly the penetrators that a 123grn 7.62x39 FMJ is.

If I stayed indoors either would be fine. But what if, for whatever reason, we had to move the party outside?

The chances of this are minimal but lets entertain the thought and discuss our three top long arm defense platforms. The AR-15, the AKM, and the 12 ga shotgun.

Personally I've found it difficult to run my AR in winter with its small controls and buttons. And with the AR platform being the lubricant hog that it is I that the chances of it seizing in the cold are good. Information on running an AR in a cold environment is scarce as most of the conflicts it has been involved in since its inception have been either jungle or desert climates.

My shotgun's safety and trigger can be run with gloves on but only for six shots and then I need to reload. The gloves that are meant to protect our digits are now the enemy here. They have to come off and risk being lost in order to top off the gun. Or do they?

My AK is good to go. It cares not about the weather but its cartridge is a heavy penetrator and presents a liability. It's certainly reliable and remains my favorite option for winter use. This year I even used it for hunting so I know it is good for taking game if I need to use it for such. But I live in a city where the "game" is stored in the freezer isle of the super market.

Those are my thoughts now lets hear yours. Its a cold night and a good one for banter.

Which platform do you feel is more viable when the snow flies?

Does your location effect your choice?

Do you have any tips, tricks, or yearly changes of habit you make when it gets cold when it comes to defense?

Share them here. Lets learn.
 
The change of season brings a change in wardrobe, which means I can carry my larger sidearms more comfortably. This is also the time of year to appreciate the fact that the perp element are too whiny to get out of their subsidized housing to cause havoc.
 
I have run an M-16 in zero degrees, it runs just fine. An AR is much less likely to go through multiple walls than most other bullets. (Particularly when using bullets specifically designed for that kind of work.)

I have lived in one apartment in the last twelve or so years. This is why. Now, even if I have to rent, I will rent a house, and preferably a brick one.

My primary HD gun is my shotgun loaded with #4 buck, my backup (and my wife's primary) is an M-1 carbine. If I REALLY think there is a war going on outside, I would grab an M-4 or my Tapcoed SKS.
 
It'll be whatever firearm I have on me. Now as for clothing, I'm very well set. I finally have completed a full set of Alpenflage.
 
The next gen

A saiga 12 with a tromix conversion is one of my dream guns!

The saiga .223 is a good idea too but I would have to get one that has been converted and I would have to buy about 20 mags for it too.
 
Box o Truth http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4_2.htm

ANY round that will penetrate a human (you want that for SD right?)
will also do the same to a wall

a very fast 'fragile' as in it comes apart pretty easily round will penetrate less walls, esp. if it breaks one the first on. Only problem is... what keeps it from doing that on human skin. Thinking the ?223 varmint grenade? round, designed to blow up little ground hogs.

Shot gun puts out lighter, slower rounds, and well, just google it, bird is the WORSE choice, it may work, it may not... so you have less penetration made up for by more rounds. Similar with hand guns. So... in the end it's a tradeoff.
 
see massad ayoob videos. nething can penetrate. location, composition of walls do matter. HP penetrate less than FMJ
 
Get your self a .22, my H&R 922 loaded with 9 stinger LR HP`s will sure mess up your day without much fear of over penetration.
 
If I was forced to fire that AK here, in this environment, the over penetration would be a huge risk to all these people. My Xd too, though not as much.
Its a conundrum for all dwellers in "attached" housing, but any firearm suitable for SD is going to penetrate interior walls with ease. Rifle, shotgun, pistol will all penetrate multiple layers of drywall with enough energy left to kill on the other side. :(

The chances of this are minimal but lets entertain the thought and discuss our three top long arm defense platforms. The AR-15, the AKM, and the 12 ga shotgun.
I myself find it hard to envision an SD scenario where a civilian could legally justify shooting an attacker outside the range of a pistol or shotgun so I have no problem dismissing a rifle from my SD line up (I personally own a AR, but I don't really include it in my SD/HD planning).

I find for HD, my first choice is a revolver in .357 or .45ACP loaded with JHPs, paired with a 18" shotgun with an extended mag tube full of #4 buckshot (shooting glasses and ear protection are also kept in the same place, if I have time to don them). Knowing that all these will penetrate the interior walls around me, I try to pre-envision "safe" fire lanes in my residence that are least likely to endanger my neighbors. For SD outside the home, I like a high-cap 9mm or .45ACP autopistol.

If I lived in a rural area (like you, I live in an urban area in "attached" housing) I might include my AR in my HD plans (living in the southeast US, a simple pair of thin "tactical" gloves would usually provide the warmth needed on the average winter night, while still allowing adequate dexterity for working the AR's controls). Not so much for the range, but just for the tactical flexibility.
 
Youth single shot 20 ga shotgun is what I have out here on the farm.

Yeah, I got snow the other day ( boy did I!) and sorta hope it clears some before the next bout due later on this week.

The single shot shotgun was just a staple growing up, doing home, property and hunting duties. Simple to manipulate, safely, in all sorts of weather. My youth model is only 36 inches in total length, with its fixed modified choked barrel and factory recoil pad. Being nearly six foot tall, I can both conceal it behind my leg in answering the door, and tote it around the farm house easily.

I prefer slugs, so that is what is in the Koplin butt cuff. I think in the drawer in the den are some #6 for pests and I have to look to see if the #3 buck are in a drawer in the garage for ...dunno, just because I guess.

Folks don't know where I keep it, and trusted folks that do come over, and I have it out, can see what condition it is in, with the action open and a shell chambered. Easy to remove shell, double check to handle, and easy for them to work if need be.

Just me, and how raised mind you, but a youth single shot is something everyone should have and yeah, they put up with old man winter and his nasty weather pretty darn well. Proven.

Steve
 
You can remove the trigger guard on your AR if you need more room for your gloves. I think I remember reading somewhere that the reason that the trigger guard is pinned in place is just for this specific reason.

Lubricants are available that won't freeze up.
 
I bought the new magpul trigger guard and that works well with gloves on. The charging handle, mag release, and bolt catch are my issues.

A tac latch would solve the charging handle issue I think.
 
Farb.

Many of us live and shoot in cold climates. Discussing ways to keep our sidearms, rifles and shotguns from freezing is certainly appropriate for this time of year.

I don't mind telling you that I don't appreciate the attitude you've brought to this discussion. If you feel my posts are silly and irrelevant then feel free to ignore them in the future.
 
No way, I'm in Bemidji too! Good to see others from this area on here.

Winter EDC is the same as summer EDC for me, Ruger P95. Around the property I've usually got a SxS 12ga. Out of your choices, in your situation, the Mossberg would be my choice. Its possible to reload a pump with winter gloves on with enough practice and the right gloves (no fuzzy mittens :p).
 
I'd grab the shotgun.

My shotgun's safety and trigger can be run with gloves on but only for six shots and then I need to reload. The gloves that are meant to protect our digits are now the enemy here. They have to come off and risk being lost in order to top off the gun. Or do they?

If the fight isn't over before I fired 6 rounds of buckshot it was already lost before it started.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top