Home/self defense and old man winter

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Weather is irrelevant to your home defense firearm(s) because they are inside your warm house or apartment. It does matter to your CCW, if any, because you will be outside. The handgun will be under or inside a garment near your body, so it will not be exposed directly to the weather. The main concern is how you will operate it with gloved hands, and what kind of gloves to wear. (Tell me and we will both know. ;))
 
If you are worried about over penetration, don't miss when you shoot. If you are not confident you can shoot without missing, practice until you can.....for the shotgun, use a heavier bird shot instead of OO buck.....for your pistol, use a lighter hollow point bullet. Forget the rifle inside the apt....chris3
 
If you are worried about over penetration, don't miss when you shoot.
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If I ever have a 220 Lb knife wielding thug in my apartment in the middle of the night I'll do my best to get him to hold still so I can get a proper stance to shoot him a little bit without missing.
 
Two layers of gloves. A form fitting layer, and a heavier layer. Gloves can be tied to your jacket so they aren't lost if you have to remove them. Also, you could get or make gloves or mittens where the tips of the finger are "convertable" and open - common for hunters to use these.

That said, I think the odds of needing to leave the comfort of the home AND use a long gun for self defense are remote. Even with a hand gun, I think you'd rarely be in a situation where you are outside sooo long that you need gloves and also self defense. I suppose if your car broke down and you had to walk a distance and encountered trouble...

But for most people, going out into public during the cold weather months involves going from home to car and getting out of car to walk into a store...
 
I was thinking more along the line of those big winter storms that can knock out your power and heat for a number of days.

We've had a couple of those here.

But you are correct. The possibility is slim.

I believe I said that in my original post.

I think there is a saying though that goes "Expect the best, prepare for the worst."

Besides. Knowing how to keep a gun going in cold weather is just good to know and its fun to discuss.

I don't like to fall into the trap of not gathering knowledge on something because the chances of using that knowledge is slim.

If I did that then I wouldn't even bother carrying in the first place.

Statistically speaking, the chances of me actually having to use a firearm for defense in its own right is "slim".

So by that logic why bother practicing or studying carrying methods etc. at all?

We do it because its good to know. Knowing how to keep a gun running in the cold is good to know too so why not talk about it?

We don't all live in the desert contrary to what the gun rags say.
 
I do most of my shooting in winter months. While we don't get as severe of winters as you do here in Illinois, old jack frost can bite us in the butt plenty hard from time to time.

I can't run a Glock 21 with thick gloves on. I have to carefully take the time to get my finger squished in to the trigger guard to avoid an ND and it makes me completely uneasy to do it. The only reason I've kept the H&K USP Tactical around is it was blessed with an enormous trigger guard, which allows me use it with thick gloves on. I really hate the muzzle flip on that heavy brick of a gun, it is ungainly and slow in competition shooting, but it's great for cold weather. :)

BTW, if you carry, and wear gloves, you should practice shooting and clearing FTF's in those same exact gloves!!!! Clearing a weapon is not always as straightforward as you'd think with gloves on - takes a bit of practice to be able to avoid "pinching" glove material in the chamber or mag well, which would compound your problem, as now your hand is attached to a non-functioning firearm! :)

Anyway thinner gloves work fine with the Glock but I usually have two layers on when it's in the deep freeze part of the winter - thin insulating gloves on the inside and thick leather gloves on the outside. I simply cannot run the majority of my handguns with that combination.

If you're running a semiauto (AR, M14, etc) use a very, very minimal amounts of oil, or switch to a dry lube (teflon or silicon residue spray lubes). I've had over-oiled guns sludge up and quit running on me before, shooting in the winter months, even normally resilient ones, such as my H&K G3.

More important than a gun, though, is the other type of self defense.. against mother nature. I always keep a small kit in my truck with enough stuff to keep me alive and kicking for a few days - I also pack a bigger kit in my wife's truck, as she typically has one or more kids with her. Logic is, if power is knocked out for an extended period of time and we have to go somewhere, even a fully charged cell phone may not be any help. :)
 
In my 35 years in Alaska, I spent many years in the arctic region and never had a problem with my long guns or handguns. We used to hunt and camp in -30F weather, chills me to the bone just thinking about at my age now, and had to make a few changes to make sure the guns would all go bang and be able to function. One change at that time when there was no low temp oil to be had was to de-grease the guns and lube them with dry graphite. A bit messy but even the auto loaders worked well with that even when cold enough to hang up with cold-thickened oil. Graphite worked with both auto loaders and revolvers in handguns. I always relied on a large frame revolver rather than an auto. I felt the revolver was less likely to have functional problems with cold or damp and with a double action revolver you can shove a heavily gloved finger into the trigger guard without a chance of inadvertent firing. The double action gives enough pressure on the trigger finger so you can feel what you're doing through the gloves. In most SD situations I doubt one would need this kind of precaution because just about any handgun is going to be concealed since it's kind of difficult to strap on a gun over a heavy parka. Any gun carried inside your outer coat isn't going to get all that cold. Inside the house what difference does it make what the weather is outside. The only one I see is that you might go to a more penetrating bullet since an intruder would be wearing heavier clothing. So for winter I carry either my .40 or .45 with heavy weight spitzer bullets. My main HD weapon is an old Mossberg 500 loaded with double ought.
 
Growing up in NY and being stuck in Florida for the holidays, I envy you and your frozen precipitation.
 
Fingerless wool gloves always worked for me. I take a medication now that honestly, I get cold hands and feet in a way I never used to when I was younger.

I found that sports gloves like those worn by football players that allow for fine manipulation worn as a 'wind stopper' with the fingerless gloves over them as insulation works pretty darn well.

When it's REALLY cold, I have fingerless gloves that have mittens that fold over them. It's possible to get your trigger finger out in a hurry.
 
It does not get as cold as your area but the Pocono Mountains in NorthEast PA don't exactly stay warm either. I have always kept a shotgun loaded accompanied by a Glock 9mm. Both have worked in some pretty cold environments. I wear a thin insulated glove so their have been no issues with the controls, trigger guard, or reloading the shotgun.

My go to rifle is an AK-47, same as the wife. Their are not to many worries about over penetration given our area and I have shot it in the cold but it has not been used in as many cold environments as the shotgun and Glock. It has been fine and did not need any special lubricating either, not worried if it was needed to perform like the other two.
I just would need to be stuck in the middle of riots or a Hurricane Katrina situation to go to it, I'm much more comfortable and familiar with my shotgun. Others MMV.
 
The odds of needing more than 6 rounds of buckshot in a HD situation are slim to none. Besides, you wont have gloves or cold weather inside. Shotgun is best option indoors. But the XD is great too.

Outside; assuming you are refering to a SHTF situation, I'd go for the AK. You are confident in it, and it won't fail you. If you are talking about a rare temporary civil breakdown where you need additional firepower but still are worried about over-penetration, Shotgun again. Six shells is quite a bit of shooting. With practice you can reload with gloves.

And if you save your money; do as others suggested. SAIGA 12! :evil:
Honestly it is not hard to convert the gun yourself. That is way cheaper than buying one already converted. If I remember right conversion kits are selling for $150 at mississippi-auto-arms and carolina-shooter-supply. Its worth looking into.
 
Three things:

1. Use projectiles proven to expand and penetrate 12 inches in humans. Expansion will cause more energy transfer to the intended target and destabilize a projectile which overpenetrates. A destabilized/expanded projectile will bleed veloctity very quickly and no longer be able to penetrate common materials as readily.

2. Kneel and aim high center mass(thoracic cavity). Overpenetrating projectiles will likely go over people close behind the threat. By the time they fall to dangerous elevations, they should no longer have dangerous velocity.

3. When choosing cover, choose cover that creates a zone of fire with a safe shooting direction behind your target. Hunters do it, you can too!
 
All valid and great points, Matthew Courtney

1. Use projectiles proven to expand and penetrate 12 inches in humans. Expansion will cause more energy transfer to the intended target and destabilize a projectile which overpenetrates. A destabilized/expanded projectile will bleed veloctity very quickly and no longer be able to penetrate common materials as readily.
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It is on penetration depth that I argue against using 5.56 varmint rounds for HD. The average penetration is only about eight inches or so, and that's in unskinned, bare, boneless ballistics gel. at very short range. The penetration guidelines were developed for a reason. As a general rule, any rifle projectile between 5.45x39 and 30-06 in a non-FMJ/TMJ design will work adequately.

2. Kneel and aim high center mass(thoracic cavity). Overpenetrating projectiles will likely go over people close behind the threat. By the time they fall to dangerous elevations, they should no longer have dangerous velocity.
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The Mythbusters tested being killed by a falling bullet. The answer is that it's an absolute lottery at best as to whether or not it can do any harm. Also, shooting the chest is the easiest place to score hits on vital organs. An additional bonus is that recoil may cause your aim to shift upwards and get a bonus headshot.

3. When choosing cover, choose cover that creates a zone of fire with a safe shooting direction behind your target. Hunters do it, you can too!
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Finding real cover that will hold up to even a bit of gunfire in a suburban home is almost impossible. Unless you've got a security door, a granite countertop, or something like that, then you're just using concealment.
 
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While there is no panecea:

1. Varmit bullets are to be avoided.

2. Bullets which have been expanded and destabilized are highly unlikely to fall with terminal velocity. Kneeling is not a license to miss.

3. Cover and zones of fire at home can be designed and built fairly cheaply. One guy I know had his daughter do some paintings on steel plate, then he put frames around them. Be creative, know, and rehearse your fall back positions and zones of fire at home. Outside of one's home, cover is more common, but familiarity is not. Familiarity can be developed as most of us have rather set territories.
 
Shotgun with Federal FliteControl 00.

Penetration is an issue if you miss, but so is anything but birdshot (which I wouldn't write off, if your apartment is very small). And the FliteControl wad will keep that shot at the size of a hand at 15 yards, so no fliers to worry about.

One guy I know had his daughter do some paintings on steel plate, then he put frames around them.
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My God that's brilliant...
 
A book case full of tightly packed books makes excellent cover in a house.

Modern bullets like Barnes RRLP are very effective for targets that are not behind barriers.

Look here: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BARNES/Barnes_5.56_55gr_RRLP.pdf

I think this would definitely get someones attention without over penetrating. If you miss it has a better chance of breaking up than a conventional bullet.

One other thing that is most often over looked, the skin on the exit side is worth 3-4" of gelatine. This is why bullets are often found under the skin on the exit side.
 
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I use thin leather gloves usually called "shooters gloves" or "driving gloves" under fleece insulating gloves. It is easy to quickly remove the outer glove and the thin leather keeps the fingers warm for a surprisingly long time if your circulation is working properly.

The best thin leather gloves are made of Pittards Leather. I got mine from Cabelas.
 
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