Captains1911
Member
I've put thousands of rounds through my two G19s (Gen3 and Gen4), a G23 Gen3, and a G26 Gen4, and have never experienced the BTF issue.
Honest Opinions from Glock 26 Owners/Former Owners
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AK103K
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I think HexHead may be onto something with his diagnosis. I dont have any Gen 4 Glocks, but I do have a number of Gen 3s, including three 26's.
One thing is for sure, Glocks do like hot ammo, and do perform better with it. Glock even sent a factory letter around back in the late 80's recommending it, due to issues with the then current factory 9mm. They were recommending the new at the time, UZI "black tip" carbine ammo, of all things. That was the only stuff that actually ever started fire forming the brass into the flutes of my MP5!.
My experience has been, that ammo, and especially reloads, may very well be the main cause of the BTF issue. This seems to be even more of an issue with heavily reloaded brass.
As far as reloads, and power issues, I learned early on back in the 80's, that my reloads that worked fine in my P38's, HP's, HK P7M13, and a couple of SMG's, would not cycle reliably in my then new Glocks. I had to move the load up towards the upper end of the load data to get reliable function. My 9mm reloads today, still reflect that too.
Now, onto the brass issue. Right now, Im cycling through about 6000 rounds of 9mm brass, that I shoot and load weekly. I shoot my brass to failure, and about half of that 6000 is starting to get to the point of having issues. The two main indicators are, split necks, erratic extraction/ejection, and increasing BTF issues.
A couple of years back, when all you heard was about Glocks having BTF issues, and it was extractor related, I started to have the problem, and on an increasing level. I tried switching out the extractor, and its related parts, and continued to have the problem.
Since 99.9% of what I shoot, are my reloads, I began to notice more and more split necks, and decided to scrap that lot of brass, and picked up some more, once fired brass to replace it. Lo and behold, when I shot some of that new lot of brass, I didnt get one round of brass to the face. I got to thinking about it, and tried a couple of boxes of WWB I had on hand, and had the same experience, not one round to the face.
Switched back to an older lot of my reloads, and the random BTF started to occur again.
This has continued ever since, and Im more and more convinced, the older and more worn out the brass is, and more chewed up the rims get, from constant extraction, the more the issue occurs. Switch to factory, or newer reloaded brass, and the issue stops.
After kind of coming to that conclusion, I put the old extractor back in the gun, and tried it with the new brass, and factory ammo, and guess what? Yup, no BTF. That same extractor is still in the gun today, and has 25,000 to 30,000 more rounds through it.
I do still get BTF now and then, the occasional stove pipes, even no extraction with a double feed once in a while, when using the older lots of my reloads. Just looking closely at the cases, is usually all it takes to understand why.
On the plus side, it lets you more realistically practice your IAD's on unplanned and random malfunctions.
Now, with factory ammo, I can see if youre using ammo that is not loaded to what Glock considers "spec", power wise, you might well have issues, and issues that other guns dont seem to have with the same ammo. Just like my early 9mm reloads, werent hot enough to cycle my early Glocks.
By no means am I saying that maybe Glock didnt/doesnt have some issues with the Gen 4's, it does seem kind of odd, all of a sudden they did, or seemed to. Its really kind of hard to know, just who was doing what, and what exactly they were doing/shooting too, so there may well be other things going on as well. If you are experiencing problems, a quick, cheap (well, maybe not cheap
) check, would be to try hotter ammo and see what happens.
One thing is for sure, Glocks do like hot ammo, and do perform better with it. Glock even sent a factory letter around back in the late 80's recommending it, due to issues with the then current factory 9mm. They were recommending the new at the time, UZI "black tip" carbine ammo, of all things. That was the only stuff that actually ever started fire forming the brass into the flutes of my MP5!.
My experience has been, that ammo, and especially reloads, may very well be the main cause of the BTF issue. This seems to be even more of an issue with heavily reloaded brass.
As far as reloads, and power issues, I learned early on back in the 80's, that my reloads that worked fine in my P38's, HP's, HK P7M13, and a couple of SMG's, would not cycle reliably in my then new Glocks. I had to move the load up towards the upper end of the load data to get reliable function. My 9mm reloads today, still reflect that too.
Now, onto the brass issue. Right now, Im cycling through about 6000 rounds of 9mm brass, that I shoot and load weekly. I shoot my brass to failure, and about half of that 6000 is starting to get to the point of having issues. The two main indicators are, split necks, erratic extraction/ejection, and increasing BTF issues.
A couple of years back, when all you heard was about Glocks having BTF issues, and it was extractor related, I started to have the problem, and on an increasing level. I tried switching out the extractor, and its related parts, and continued to have the problem.
Since 99.9% of what I shoot, are my reloads, I began to notice more and more split necks, and decided to scrap that lot of brass, and picked up some more, once fired brass to replace it. Lo and behold, when I shot some of that new lot of brass, I didnt get one round of brass to the face. I got to thinking about it, and tried a couple of boxes of WWB I had on hand, and had the same experience, not one round to the face.
Switched back to an older lot of my reloads, and the random BTF started to occur again.
This has continued ever since, and Im more and more convinced, the older and more worn out the brass is, and more chewed up the rims get, from constant extraction, the more the issue occurs. Switch to factory, or newer reloaded brass, and the issue stops.
After kind of coming to that conclusion, I put the old extractor back in the gun, and tried it with the new brass, and factory ammo, and guess what? Yup, no BTF. That same extractor is still in the gun today, and has 25,000 to 30,000 more rounds through it.
I do still get BTF now and then, the occasional stove pipes, even no extraction with a double feed once in a while, when using the older lots of my reloads. Just looking closely at the cases, is usually all it takes to understand why.
On the plus side, it lets you more realistically practice your IAD's on unplanned and random malfunctions.
Now, with factory ammo, I can see if youre using ammo that is not loaded to what Glock considers "spec", power wise, you might well have issues, and issues that other guns dont seem to have with the same ammo. Just like my early 9mm reloads, werent hot enough to cycle my early Glocks.
By no means am I saying that maybe Glock didnt/doesnt have some issues with the Gen 4's, it does seem kind of odd, all of a sudden they did, or seemed to. Its really kind of hard to know, just who was doing what, and what exactly they were doing/shooting too, so there may well be other things going on as well. If you are experiencing problems, a quick, cheap (well, maybe not cheap
) check, would be to try hotter ammo and see what happens.
AK103K
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Yup, thats kind of what I was alluding too. I havent really heard much about anything of late though, so Im assuming if there was an issue, they got it worked out.
Im not a big fan of the Gen 4's, mainly due to the grip strap thing, and RSA changes.
I dont have a problem with the earlier generation grips, and I like to stipple mine, so that rules out the Gen 4's.
Its also nice not to have to have different parts for the same model guns of different generations.
^ I sent a gen4 19 back to glock because it was a single shot model.
They replaced it with a new gun, and it worked okay. Never got BTF with the replacement nor the single shot version, cause it would have actually had to extract for that.
However, have since decided my VP9 will replace all my glocks.
They replaced it with a new gun, and it worked okay. Never got BTF with the replacement nor the single shot version, cause it would have actually had to extract for that.
However, have since decided my VP9 will replace all my glocks.
OP
OP
guyfromohio
Member
Ak- great write-up.
My decision sounds like it is between another Glock for which I will have to purchase different, more expensive, hotter ammo, or don't get another Glock and continue to shoot through my Blazer Aluminum 115g with guns that work with it. I can live with that. My PCR cycles and shoots like a champ. The Glock was a want, not a need by any stretch.
I do want to mention that I'm discussing BTF here. I have NEVER had a single Glock failure of any kind through tens of thousands of rounds shot..... Nearly all cheap 115gr Blazer aluminum (I was able to get it for $8.99/box for a year before Sandy Hook and ended up with around 12,000 rounds..... Down to about 3000 now).
My decision sounds like it is between another Glock for which I will have to purchase different, more expensive, hotter ammo, or don't get another Glock and continue to shoot through my Blazer Aluminum 115g with guns that work with it. I can live with that. My PCR cycles and shoots like a champ. The Glock was a want, not a need by any stretch.
I do want to mention that I'm discussing BTF here. I have NEVER had a single Glock failure of any kind through tens of thousands of rounds shot..... Nearly all cheap 115gr Blazer aluminum (I was able to get it for $8.99/box for a year before Sandy Hook and ended up with around 12,000 rounds..... Down to about 3000 now).
AK103K
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I guess you never know what anything will do, until you try it. The only factory Ive shot through my current Glocks, other than the higher end "premium" type ammo, Federal, Speer, Winchester, which were usually, +P, or +P+, were 124 grain Federal 9mm "NATO", or 115 grain WWB, the later of which, I often hear people claim to be "under powered". I never had any problems with what I have.
F-111 John
Member
I love my G26 Gen 3 that was purchased new two years ago. I have nothing but praise for it, and would make the same purchase all over again. Whenever I carry, it is my go-to gun most of the time. I occasionally will pocket or IWB carry a Smith J-Frame in T-shirt and shorts weather, but here in Michigan I carry the Glock the other 11 1/2 months of the year...
I got an occasional BTF from both my G19 Gen4 and my G26 Gen3 for maybe the first 500 rounds or so, especially with starting loads when I was first working up my practice ammo. Once the springs got broke in a little, and I quit the weak stuff, I can't really recall experiencing it anymore. It was never heavy enough for me to consider it a problem with either though. I don't doubt that there were some real problem guns out there (ie I'm not in denial nor a fanboy). I was kind of a late convert to the Glock system, but the G26 might be the one pistol I would keep if limited to a single autoloader. It is comfortable enough and shoots enough like a big gun for long range sessions or gun games, but it is small enough for carry in all but the most challenging circumstances.
OP
OP
guyfromohio
Member
Unacceptable to have to fix a brand new gun. Not an option.
george burns
Member
Not an issue with my 5 yr old 26. Never has been. Did you try different positioning of your hands , head etc. Or perhaps have a smith bevel the ejection port, experiment with a recoil spring that is a pound or 2 lighter or heavier, try a buffer etc.
Wanderling
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Go tell this to a 1911 shooter
although they call it "modifications".I shot so far 150 rounds from my brand new G26. 100 brass, 50 aluminum. I got probably 2-3 BTFs. All from aluminum which may be related to weaker loads or more spent case friction. I expect this to stop happening after I shoot a couple hundred more rounds.
This is a self defense gun. It is extremely reliable, easy to conceal, as accurate as a full size gun, and I can tolerate an occasional brass - sorry, aluminum - to the forehead. What is unacceptable is the gun that does not fire when you pull the trigger, or is so inaccurate you don't know where the next round is going. The moment I held it in my hands in store, I realized this was the one. Sorry, Shield
exdetsgt
Member
I've got a problem with my G26. It's not the gun, it's the holsters. I've got an OWB Masters brown leather made specifically for a G26 and a paddle Fobus, again made specifically for a G26. Trouble is the G26 sticks in both holsters and only with a herculean effort am I able to get the gun out of either holster. Forget smooth fast draw. It's a new gun, basically, so there's no sticky crud on it. Is there some slick-em-up lube stuff I can put inside the leather holster?
The Fobus has non-adjustable fasteners so I can't do anything with it, and as it's a paddle OWB the belt tightness is irrelevant.
If I loosen up my belt the Masters gets easier to draw but then the holster sags and my trousers are in danger of falling down. And the belt is a sturdy 1 1/2" gun belt made by D.M. Bullard which works well with my 1911 and J-frame holsters.
Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.
The Fobus has non-adjustable fasteners so I can't do anything with it, and as it's a paddle OWB the belt tightness is irrelevant.
If I loosen up my belt the Masters gets easier to draw but then the holster sags and my trousers are in danger of falling down. And the belt is a sturdy 1 1/2" gun belt made by D.M. Bullard which works well with my 1911 and J-frame holsters.
Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread.
OP
OP
guyfromohio
Member
Put the gun in a ziplock or thicker bag and stick it in the holster over night.
exdetsgt
Member
Thanks, I'll try that.
george burns
Member
I threw out the fobus, just to prevent me from using it in a hurry. The gun would not release.
AK103K
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Blade Tech has a "one size fits all" IWB for Glocks (of each family), that is about perfect for the 26. It uses an adjustable tension screw for retention. You can use "pull the dot" straps, or "J" hooks to secure it, and its adjustable for straight drop, or a cant. Its very comfortable, and works very well.
http://shop.blade-tech.com/index.php?cPath=1_13_15#.VGgWTjSorLk
They also have a variety of different type holsters, including OWB. Ive used a number of them over the years, but always preferred the IWB's, as they are the most comfortable/concealable.
http://shop.blade-tech.com/index.php?cPath=1_13_15#.VGgWTjSorLk
They also have a variety of different type holsters, including OWB. Ive used a number of them over the years, but always preferred the IWB's, as they are the most comfortable/concealable.
rskent
Member
Ok took the little G26 to the range the last week. Only had time for 100 rounds. I loaded up the mags alternating between Blaser 115 grain
and Wolf military classic 115 grain. Certainly not the best ammo for sure. Shot two handed, strong and weak handed.
Still no brass to face.
and Wolf military classic 115 grain. Certainly not the best ammo for sure. Shot two handed, strong and weak handed.
Still no brass to face.
rskent
Member
Not saying you did a bad thing by throwing out the Fobus but they are pretty easy to loosen up.
Just remove some material where it grabs your gun. I use one sometimes for my little J frame.
I used a die grinder to remove a little plastic where the gun snaps in.
I think a steak knife would have worked just as well, just slower.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
Yeah...I dunno. I think there may be multiple reasons for BTF with Glocks. I shot some factory - never had BTF. I worked up 9mm hand loads for the two 9mm carry guns I rotate and compromised an SD/Range load (we practice with what we carry all the time/everywhere) so that it was acceptable to my Beretta Px4 SC and my G26. I started with a load that would not reliably cycle the slide of the G26 and worked my way up to a hot hand load that was accurate and completely reliable in both guns and have 2000+ rounds thru the G26 Gen 4.
No BTF for me ever. Not one. I use mixed 9mm brass and have not yet had any brass failures/culled any brass. Some of it is on it's 8th reloading and the primer pockets will probably fail before the brass does....so the brass is plenty used and I shot some yesterday in the G26 to the tune of 100 rounds.
No BTF.
VooDoo
No BTF for me ever. Not one. I use mixed 9mm brass and have not yet had any brass failures/culled any brass. Some of it is on it's 8th reloading and the primer pockets will probably fail before the brass does....so the brass is plenty used and I shot some yesterday in the G26 to the tune of 100 rounds.
No BTF.
VooDoo
Wanderling
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May be an obvious thing, but are you sure you have the right model for G26 ?
Although, with G26 short grip, Fobus would be hard to use.
Although, with G26 short grip, Fobus would be hard to use.
exdetsgt
Member
My Fobus says GL26. Then, on the other side it says Made in Israel.
Mastrogiacomo
Member
Just to throw something else into the mix, if the Glocks don't do it for you, why not consider a CZ or the Shield? It sounds like the OP has gone through a lot of Glock models so if it's not working for him, maybe a different brand will be a better fit.
Laura
Laura
AK103K
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Ive got some that are in the 20+ range, reload wise, and its been the case mouths and rims that were usually the problems. Havent had any primer pocket issues, other than the usual military pockets and thier crimps.
What gets them culled here, are the splits in the case mouths (usually picked up in the expansion or seating stages), and/or when I start to get a lot of failures to cycle properly in a lot.
I do actually like having that occur though, as its good, "unexpected" practice for IAD's, although, I dont need it constantly. One or two per outing isnt a problem though.
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