Hornady LNL AP powder measure inaccurate

[jmorris]

Anybody here had any trouble with Hornady LNL powder measure????? Mine seems to fluctuate up and down as much as an entire grain (not instantly but it works itself there). Can't seem to go into full production when I have to spot check every 10 rounds and make adjustments.............. Yes, I cleaned and lubricated

My LNL measures were on par with my other progressive measures in accuracy. None favor extruded powders but none would be as much as a grain off with any powder I have ever used.

I have never lubricated any measure though.

 

[jmorris]

An entire grain of powder is a lot. I have presses that can detect a slight difference in case volume even though the charge is the same (to the tenth of a grain).



Operating speed isn't that big of a deal, the powder only has to drop a few inches and Gravity has things on earth fall at 32ft/sec^2.

Even going "fast" with larger charges on a progressive, it has time to fall.



And that's nothing compared to the speed of normal manufacturing equipment, they have to drop the same powder through the same opening too.

 

[Larryswn]

We mean the op lever needs to be brought down at the same steady pace every time, then raised at the same rate. Slow, steady, smooth operation is the key. It is quite common for new press owners to be jerky in their operations. This can lead to varying OAL and other variations. I imagine powder drops could be one of these.

The object is not to see how much ammo you can make in a session. Therefore SPEED is of no concern. The object is to see how smoothly you can operate the press. Consistent shot placement (what we call "accuracy") cannot be achieved without consistent ammo. And consistent ammo comes from consistent press operation. If you want to see correct press speed operation go to a web page called UltimateReloader.Com

Suggestions:
• Make sure your reloading bench is rock solid. Bolt it to the wall if you have to. Your operation cannot be smooth if your bench is flexing with each stroke.
• The ball on the op lever should be at shoulder height to allow your arm to comfortably swing through the entire stroke. Make sure you have the correct height chair/stool.
• If shoulder pain or muscle aches are inhibiting you, then look into an Ergo Handle from Inline Fabrication.

Hope this helps.

Definitely helps, I didnt realize speed had to be consistent. Believe me, I dont care how fast I go I prefer consistent ammo.

 

[TheDomFather]

Interesting thread going on here guys, I use Hornady one shot cleaner and dry lube in my powder measure every time I am done reloading to clean it out, I will tell you powder sticks like hell next time I use it, Once its coated with powder though it drops consistenly to +/- .1 grain, Ive tried using graphite lube same story, Ive tried using rubbing alcohol.. same story, interesting to see that someone actually polished the paint off the inside of there powder drop, wondering if this would be more likely to rust in a humid environment (my press is in the garage as well), So I have just come to the conclusion that I need to clean it out after every use to get the powder out of there. I mostly reload pistol right now and I am using Bullseye powder, but getting ready to start reloading rifle rounds with Varget, H335 and CFE BLK. I have heard of some folks using a used dryer sheet to wipe down the inside and outside of the powder drop as static electricity sometimes make the powder stick as well. Any thoughts on that?

Between this site and youtube I've learned a tremendous amount in the past 3 months. Thanks everyone for the tips and tricks!

 

[Blue68f100]

I've had not cleaned mine in many years. Once you get it good and coated with graphite from the powder it runs smooth and consistent. Now I did put a copper platting on the cylinders to stop any rust. I live in east TX where the humidity normally runs 60% + so rust is a problem. I did end up adding a dehumidifier to my shop/room for that reason, all of my tools were trying to rust. It will pullout 1/2 gal + of water every day.

 

[Kaldor]

Just ordered a balance scale after putting the calibration weight on that digital scale, it's not even reading right! My set up is in the garage so if they're sensitive to temperature then forget it. Thanks for all the help, if you're interested I'll let you know how it goes when I get the balance scale.

That normal for a cheapy electronic scale. Let me guess its a little Hornady branded electronic scale? If so, yes they wander like crazy.

I have a ChargeMaster, and I watch it constantly for wandering. And you are correct that they need to warm up. I load in the garage as well, and in the winter, I dont load below 30 degrees, and I let the scale warm up for 30 minutes prior to use.

 

[Kaldor]

We mean the op lever needs to be brought down at the same steady pace every time, then raised at the same rate. Slow, steady, smooth operation is the key. It is quite common for new press owners to be jerky in their operations. This can lead to varying OAL and other variations. I imagine powder drops could be one of these.

The object is not to see how much ammo you can make in a session. Therefore SPEED is of no concern. The object is to see how smoothly you can operate the press. Consistent shot placement (what we call "accuracy") cannot be achieved without consistent ammo. And consistent ammo comes from consistent press operation. If you want to see correct press speed operation go to a web page called UltimateReloader.Com

Suggestions:
• Make sure your reloading bench is rock solid. Bolt it to the wall if you have to. Your operation cannot be smooth if your bench is flexing with each stroke.
• The ball on the op lever should be at shoulder height to allow your arm to comfortably swing through the entire stroke. Make sure you have the correct height chair/stool.
• If shoulder pain or muscle aches are inhibiting you, then look into an Ergo Handle from Inline Fabrication.

Hope this helps.

Well I run as fast as I possibly can on the progressive, or at least as fast as the crappy Hornady case feeder will allow me. It requires a certain rhythm and speed at each part of the stroke to get it to run right. Deviate from that and the case feeder works for s___. When everything is running good, 600 rounds an hour on that press is easy even setting bullets by hand. What its running for s____, then who knows, and I feel like taking a hammer to it. Ive spent alot of time making mine as reliable as possible. The press itself is great, easily as good as any other 5 station progressive, its the case feeder that is terrible.

The reality of it is though, a rotary measure uses volume as its measure, so it matters not if you approach the top of the stroke fast or slow, it will always dispense the same amount of powder as long as the measure is working correctly. My only advice is dont slam the case into the case activated powder drop.

Good advice on the Inline Fab handle though. I have a bad right shoulder. The stock Hornady handle really messed it it. The Inline Fab handle makes it run with no pain.

 

[RealGun]

When reloading, it is a virtue to be obsessive about detail, but .2 and almost .3 grains is only 1% of your load (27.4). The higher the powder volume the more likely a variance. And yes, you hit on the variable of the scales also. Now you will find cold scales and warm render variances also. I like electronic scales for convenience, but when I need a real sanity check, dead nuts accurate, I like to keep good balance beam scales around.

 

[Kaldor]

Interesting thread going on here guys, I use Hornady one shot cleaner and dry lube in my powder measure every time I am done reloading to clean it out, I will tell you powder sticks like hell next time I use it, Once its coated with powder though it drops consistenly to +/- .1 grain, Ive tried using graphite lube same story, Ive tried using rubbing alcohol.. same story, interesting to see that someone actually polished the paint off the inside of there powder drop, wondering if this would be more likely to rust in a humid environment (my press is in the garage as well), So I have just come to the conclusion that I need to clean it out after every use to get the powder out of there. I mostly reload pistol right now and I am using Bullseye powder, but getting ready to start reloading rifle rounds with Varget, H335 and CFE BLK. I have heard of some folks using a used dryer sheet to wipe down the inside and outside of the powder drop as static electricity sometimes make the powder stick as well. Any thoughts on that?

Between this site and youtube I've learned a tremendous amount in the past 3 months. Thanks everyone for the tips and tricks!

Stop lubing it. Clean it, and put it away dry. Then the powder will stop sticking to it.

Im the one that posted the pic of the polished measure. In Wisconsin its pretty common for us to see 80%+ humidity in the summer. This PM is in the garage. It hast rusted yet. I store it empty, a used drier sheet or 3 inside, with the lid on. No rust yet, and its been almost 3 years.

The drier sheet cuts static a ton. Use it. Ive even sheet guys fold one into a strip and let it dangle into the PM folded over the edge, add powder, and then put the lid on if static is really bad.

Dont even bother with trying to accurately measure Varget in a rotary drop. Just trickle it if you want any accuracy. Sorry, thats just part of using that powder. Varget, H4350, H4198, H4895, etc, are the reason I bought a Chargemaster.

 

[RealGun]

Well I run as fast as I possibly can on the progressive, or at least as fast as the crappy Hornady case feeder will allow me. It requires a certain rhythm and speed at each part of the stroke to get it to run right. Deviate from that and the case feeder works for s___. When everything is running good, 600 rounds an hour on that press is easy even setting bullets by hand. What its running for s____, then who knows, and I feel like taking a hammer to it. Ive spent alot of time making mine as reliable as possible. The press itself is great, easily as good as any other 5 station progressive, its the case feeder that is terrible.

The reality of it is though, a rotary measure uses volume as its measure, so it matters not if you approach the top of the stroke fast or slow, it will always dispense the same amount of powder as long as the measure is working correctly. My only advice is dont slam the case into the case activated powder drop.

Good advice on the Inline Fab handle though. I have a bad right shoulder. The stock Hornady handle really messed it it. The Inline Fab handle makes it run with no pain.

My case feeder was a sore point until I discovered the cast metal part was not seated and secure on the upright. That bit of misalignment made a surprising difference. I have troubles with jams at the top of the tube, so I often run the tube full and turn off the feeder, load that tube full of cases dry, then take a break to restart the feeder. If there must be an interruption, this way it isn't random and cause for cursing. It also creates a break from the infernal racket of the cases in the hopper.

 

[Kaldor]

When reloading, it is a virtue to be obsessive about detail, but .2 and almost .3 grains is only 1% of your load (27.4). The higher the powder volume the more likely a variance. And yes, you hit on the variable of the scales also. Now you will find cold scales and warm render variances also. I like electronic scales for convenience, but when I need a real sanity check, dead nuts accurate, I like to keep good balance beam scales around.

True, and when Im rolling blammo (blaster ammo) at 500-600 rounds an hour I dont care if I see a little variance. But even still, I make this stuff with all ball powders, so it meters perfect every time. When Im shooting expensive bullets, I want to make sure my load is dead on everytime when the bullets are 50 cents a pop otherwise you are just wasting your time and money. And my loading procedures are far from obsessive. Full progressive about 90% of my stuff, and I take every short cut I can that still affords me great accuracy.

 

[Kaldor]

My case feeder was a sore point until I discovered the cast metal part was not seated and secure on the upright. That bit of misalignment made a surprising difference. I have troubles with jams at the top of the tube, so I often run the tube full and turn of the feeder, load that tube full of cases dry, then take a break to restart the feeder. If there must be an interruption, this way it isn't random and cause for cursing.

I push my feed tube all the way up, and then put a zip tie on the tube that rests against the dropper on the bottom. That seems to have solved that issue.

My primary issues were jamming in the case feeder.
Multiple cases stacking on each other in the bowl, causing cases to double feed and jam. I fixed that with a delrin ramp in the case feeder bowl that flips extra cases out of the way.
Pivot block galling, causing it to jam. Replaced that with a delrin block mounted on a stud.
The last one, and this is inherent to the design of the LnL, is jumping the retainer spring slot in the base. I havent taken the time to fix this yet, but I have some ideas. This is the least of my concern though, as all it takes is for me to brush my finger against any case that is tipping as it comes into the shell plate to right it and make it feed.

My press probably has 50000 cycles on it between prepping brass, and actual loading, so its getting a little worn. I do need to call Hornady and order an extra set of pawls as mine are starting to wear.

 

[Larryswn]

That normal for a cheapy electronic scale. Let me guess its a little Hornady branded electronic scale? If so, yes they wander like crazy.

I have a ChargeMaster, and I watch it constantly for wandering. And you are correct that they need to warm up. I load in the garage as well, and in the winter, I dont load below 30 degrees, and I let the scale warm up for 30 minutes prior to use.

Yep, the little 30 dollar Hornady. I noticed I have the opposite problem with it. During the day when the garage is warm it's all over the place. At night when the garage cools down I get 20 measurements in a row that are all the same........... seems I have to recalibrate it before every use if the temp is different in garage. Balance scale coming in the mail tomorrow. I think I'll switch to that. After all, gravity is going to be pretty consistent I would think. Before I went to bed I put the check weight in the scale and it measured measured perfect. Just got home from work and put the check weight in the scale it's about a grain and a half different now. Garage was about 60 degrees when I went to bed it's about 80 degrees now

 

[rsrocket1]

Wow, just disassembled and cleaned. Powder was stuck to EVERYTHING. That dry lube not so dry. Got everything cleaned out with solvent, used graphite this time. Seems much better. I have a really cheap O scale though I think I'm going to get a more expensive one cuz I don't really trust this little dinky scale. I didn't really realize the quality level until I got it in the mail. It even says accurate within point one. For all I know it's throwing 27 every time.. Now throwing 27 - 27.1 Excellent advice thanks!

Oh brother!
I was going to respond to your post at the beginning of the week to ask the obvious "did you clean off all the packing grease with One Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube or brake cleaner?" But I went back and saw your post stating that you "cleaned it". Now you say you didn't follow the instructions and used something else and found powder stuck to everything. The guy in the video says they often get powder measure complaints only to find that they weren't properly cleaned.

Glad you found it out and fixed it.

Now go get a real scale, not a cheap Chinese $10 scale that gets marked up anywhere from $30-$90. I would not trust an electronic scale unless it's around $250-$300 and that is way too much for weighing powder so I don't use an electronic scale for most reloading. I do have a $10 Harbor Freight scale that I use to count bullets or cases because it's at least accurate enough to distinguish between 10 cases and 11.

Even a $25 Lee Safety scale is plenty good for reloading up to 60 grains and is consistent to 0.1g.

 

[Larryswn]

Oh brother!
I was going to respond to your post at the beginning of the week to ask the obvious "did you clean off all the packing grease with One Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube or brake cleaner?" But I went back and saw your post stating that you "cleaned it". Now you say you didn't follow the instructions and used something else and found powder stuck to everything. The guy in the video says they often get powder measure complaints only to find that they weren't properly cleaned.

Glad you found it out and fixed it.

Now go get a real scale, not a cheap Chinese $10 scale that gets marked up anywhere from $30-$90. I would not trust an electronic scale unless it's around $250-$300 and that is way too much for weighing powder so I don't use an electronic scale for most reloading. I do have a $10 Harbor Freight scale that I use to count bullets or cases because it's at least accurate enough to distinguish between 10 cases and 11.

Even a $25 Lee Safety scale is plenty good for reloading up to 60 grains and is consistent to 0.1g.

But I did follow the instructions to the T. I watch the video and paused it step by step. But what I have found in my case is that the Hornady one shot gun cleaner and Lube just isn't so dry. Three weeks later when I took it apart it was still kind of greasy inside. And I sprayed it "liberally" like they said. Second time I cleaned it I use rubbing alcohol and a little toothbrush. Took it apart again today nothing there's no power stick into anything anymore. Thanks for the advice on the scale as well.

Oh brother!
I was going to respond to your post at the beginning of the week to ask the obvious "did you clean off all the packing grease with One Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube or brake cleaner?" But I went back and saw your post stating that you "cleaned it". Now you say you didn't follow the instructions and used something else and found powder stuck to everything. The guy in the video says they often get powder measure complaints only to find that they weren't properly cleaned.

Glad you found it out and fixed it.

Now go get a real scale, not a cheap Chinese $10 scale that gets marked up anywhere from $30-$90. I would not trust an electronic scale unless it's around $250-$300 and that is way too much for weighing powder so I don't use an electronic scale for most reloading. I do have a $10 Harbor Freight scale that I use to count bullets or cases because it's at least accurate enough to distinguish between 10 cases and 11.

Even a $25 Lee Safety scale is plenty good for reloading up to 60 grains and is consistent to 0.1g.

The second time I cleaned it I didn't use the Hornady one shot gun cleaner and dry lube. I used rubbing alcohol and little brushes cleaned everything real good. That was 2 days ago I took it apart again today no Powder stuck anywhere. I followed the directions step by step pausing the video with each step. I sprayed everything" liberally" like they said but for some reason maybe I have a bad batch or something cuz this stuff is greasy. I let it dry for 2 hours and it was still greasy.

 

[Larryswn]

Oh brother!
I was going to respond to your post at the beginning of the week to ask the obvious "did you clean off all the packing grease with One Shot Gun Cleaner and Dry Lube or brake cleaner?" But I went back and saw your post stating that you "cleaned it". Now you say you didn't follow the instructions and used something else and found powder stuck to everything. The guy in the video says they often get powder measure complaints only to find that they weren't properly cleaned.

Glad you found it out and fixed it.

Now go get a real scale, not a cheap Chinese $10 scale that gets marked up anywhere from $30-$90. I would not trust an electronic scale unless it's around $250-$300 and that is way too much for weighing powder so I don't use an electronic scale for most reloading. I do have a $10 Harbor Freight scale that I use to count bullets or cases because it's at least accurate enough to distinguish between 10 cases and 11.

Even a $25 Lee Safety scale is plenty good for reloading up to 60 grains and is consistent to 0.1g.

I used the right stuff I just don't think I got all of the shipping grease off or something. I sprayed "all metal parts liberally" like they said and when I took it apart three weeks later it was still greasy inside. This time I used rubbing alcohol and small brushes. Graphite for Lube. I just made a hundred rounds I checked one out of every ten and it was 27 grains on the money every time. Thank all of you for your help seems the powder measure is finally consistant.

 

[rfwobbly]

Wow, just disassembled and cleaned. Powder was stuck to EVERYTHING. That dry lube not so dry. Got everything cleaned out with solvent, used graphite this time. Seems much better.

Graphite is the bomb, isn't it ! Blackish powders such as W231 are coated in graphite and will lubricate the measure during use. Keep that tube handy because not all powders are helping you like that.

I have a really cheap O scale though I think I'm going to get a more expensive one cuz I don't really trust this little dinky scale. I didn't really realize the quality level until I got it in the mail. It even says accurate within point one. For all I know it's throwing 27 every time..

People don't realize that digital scales have software that "fudge" the answers. If different weights flicker on the screen, but the zero never budges, consider that the zero is wandering as much, but the software is hiding that from you to make you assume it's rock solid.

Now throwing 27 - 27.1 Excellent advice thanks!

Our advice can only be as good as your description. Congrats !!

 

[Reeferman]

I just loaded a 100 rounds of 357 using Unique on my LNL I checked powder every 10 rounds and four of those were either a 1/10 under or over the rest were right on the 5.9 grains I was loading. I never could get Unique to meter that well before I found out about having the baffle holes to the side of measure.

 

[Elkins45]

So it sounds like we really don't know how much powder your measure is throwing. What I would be throwing is your cheap digital scale...throwing it away. Get a decent balance beam scale so you can actually trust your readings.

I'm always curious when people talk about one measure being better than another. Powder measures are just cavities in a piece of metal. Unless the adjustments are slipping they are all more alike than different. The only problem I have ever had with a powder measure is the Lee Auto Drum because fine ball powder wedges between the rotor and the body, jamming it up. And it's accurate until it stops turning.

 

[Larryswn]

So it sounds like we really don't know how much powder your measure is throwing. What I would be throwing is your cheap digital scale...throwing it away. Get a decent balance beam scale so you can actually trust your readings.

I'm always curious when people talk about one measure being better than another. Powder measures are just cavities in a piece of metal. Unless the adjustments are slipping they are all more alike than different. The only problem I have ever had with a powder measure is the Lee Auto Drum because fine ball powder wedges between the rotor and the body, jamming it up. And it's accurate until it stops turning.

Balance beam came in the mail yesterday. I put a 10G weight on there and 154.3 exact. Comparing between the two, balance beam from here on out

 

[Reeferman]

Larry what digital scale do you have?

 

[Larryswn]

Larry what digital scale do you have?

The little $30 Hornady. I'm using a balance beam now. I checked with a 10 gram weight and it's dead on so Im in. Not gonna bother with the digital anymore.

 

[Reeferman]

The little $30 Hornady. I'm using a balance beam now. I checked with a 10 gram weight and it's dead on so Im in. Not gonna bother with the digital anymore.

I guess I missed that in post 63. What beam did you get?