Hornady LnL AP Primer Seater

[alfsauve]

12 years and 100k reloads you know some things are going to wear.

(6 years ago I emptied the waste can used for spent primers. I did several sample counts then weighed the whole can and estimate 65,000 spent primers. I've back off reloading during the primer shortage for the past two years, but feel comfortable in saying this press is over 100k now.)

Started to experience an occasional high primer with my .38spls. They fired just fine on 2nd strike. Puzzled over this for a while and checked a number of other things, such as the added sensors to run my reloading computer to make sure they weren't interfering. Then there it was, plain as day.

The primer punch is hard steel. And with each primer it pushes against the press's base, which is aluminum. And yes, it has worn a little hole in the base. Not very big or deep but evidently deep enough. If a case has a deep primer pocket, then maybe that one primer in a every couple of 100 wasn't getting fully seated.



But how to "fill" the hole.

Two things dawned on me, eventually (I can be a slow thinker). 1-nothing I could melt and pour in there that wouldn't wear away rather quickly be it epoxy or some soft metal. 2-I need something as hard or harder than the primer punch. 3-And maybe something easily replaceable in the future. 4-I can't count.

But what, I thought, as I was changing out the blade on my box cutter. AH-HA. Why not just glue a piece of the box cutter blade, hard steel, over the divot? It would definitely stand up to the primer punch better than aluminum, it's cheap and easily replaceable. It actually gives me an extra 0.032" above dead bottom.



Loaded up a 100 rounds and fired them with no mis-fires. Then reseated the 1,000 rounds I already had loaded in inventory. Have gone through about 300 of those rounds with no more problem. I'm guessing this press gonna last at least another 6 years and another 50K or so rounds.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I wonder how many my press has loaded, the hex nut on the primer punch assy is hitting my frame and leaving a mark.
I quit keeping track at around 30k which was many years ago.
Mine is 10 years old and I'm haven't been having any problems with missfires, and it's a wonder.
I better put a patch on mine so it doesn't start.

Thanks for the reminder to look, I had forgotten all about watching it.

 

[Blue68f100]

A good check is to measure how far the primer punch is coming through the shell plate, that will tell you if you need to fix it. I drilled a hole and dropped a steel pin the hole. So now I have steel against steel.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

All better now.

Thanks again Alfsauve for the reminder, I new mine was getting close.
Blue68f100, I was still getting .003"- .005" under on the mic but again, it was getting real close. I just cut a piece of utility knife like Alfsauve did, ground the paint off and glued it down with JB weld.
Won't have to worry about it again.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I remember reading about this when I first set up my LNL AP.

My understanding is that the wear is limited by compression of the frame. A more fancy fix is disassemble the primer punch unit and the shorten the primer punch hexnut to increase travel of the punch.

I taped (painters tape was handy) a nickle (again handy) in place and rotate it every now and then a the nickle gets indented. I'm sure it's time for a change...maybe I'll try to box cutter blade this time

 

[alfsauve]

All better now.
....., ground the paint off and glued it down with JB weld. Won't have to worry about it again.

I just used SuperGlue right on the painted surface. Hedging my bet as to how long the box cutter blade will last, so this will just pop off if a change is ever needed.

9MMEPIPHANY: Sounds complicated. I'm a bear of simple wit.

 

[Skgreen]

the hex nut on the primer punch assy is hitting my frame and leaving a mark.

The 'hex-nut mark' certainly seems like it would indicate you're bottomed-out, but I'm thinking mine came from all those times I was attempting to 'seat a primer' when there was no primer in place to be seated.

I J-B welded a fender washer over the 'divit' in the frame 3+ years ago.

It doesn't seem like I've loaded as many rounds as y'all have. I'm still on the original pawls and drive hub, so it's not like I'm using a 4 ft cheater-bar welded onto the handle or that I have arms like Popeye, so heck if I know,,,

If I had to do it all over again, I'd go with the 'drill and fill' method mentioned by Blue previously.

 

[MonkTx]

My LnL has had the same dime under the primer punch for about 8 years now. Poor old Roosevelt's got a huge divot in his socialist forehead. Kinda surprised Hornady hasn't fixed this little issue in all that time.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

The 'hex-nut mark' certainly seems like it would indicate you're bottomed-out, but I'm thinking mine came from all those times I was attempting to 'seat a primer' when there was no primer in place to be seated.

I J-B welded a fender washer over the 'divit' in the frame 3+ years ago.

It doesn't seem like I've loaded as many rounds as y'all have. I'm still on the original pawls and drive hub, so it's not like I'm using a 4 ft cheater-bar welded onto the handle or that I have arms like Popeye, so heck if I know,,,

If I had to do it all over again, I'd go with the 'drill and fill' method mentioned by Blue previously.

I hadn't noticed the line from the hex nut before. It had to be a recent development. This is the first time since I bought the press in 2012 that I had to do anything to it except grind out under the shell plate for the extra spring clearance. It quit eating springs after I did that about 3 years ago.
I've never broken any parts either. It just keep running like a Timex watch.

I used JB Weld because I wanted the divot filled and wanted full support under the blade so the primer punch assy wouldn't flex the blade when being pushed on.
I ground off the paint so I had bare metal for the JB Weld to latch onto. Hopefully I'll never have to mess with it again.

It's really not much of a problem to fix. It took me 20 minutes from start to finish and I'm good for hopefully another 10 years.

 

[Mike44]

I recently made a tech support call to Hornady about an unrelated matter regarding my LNL. While on the call I asked the tech how he felt about using a steel washer to cover the divot made by the primer punch. He said that it was OK, but he would prefer that I used something that could not cause a spark when struck by the primer punch just in case there was a powder buildup in the area. He recommended using a penny. I switched to the penny. The penny is soft so it may not last forever, but it did solve my problems seating 357 mag and 45 acp primers deep enough.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I can't use anything thick, I will loose the timing on the down stroke. The utility knife blade is already messing with my timing and I can't advance my shell plate any more because the pawls will start catching down below. I already tried that once.
I took the punch assy out of the frame and sanded down the dome on the end of the punch that hits the blade. That got me back into a smooth operation and my sled is at home before the punch starts up and it's lined up with the case now. .
If you have to do this be careful, a "little" sanding on this means a lot. A few thousands goes pretty quick.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I remember reading about this when I first set up my LNL AP.

My understanding is that the wear is limited by compression of the frame. A more fancy fix is disassemble the primer punch unit and the shorten the primer punch hexnut to increase travel of the punch.

I taped (painters tape was handy) a nickle (again handy) in place and rotate it every now and then a the nickle gets indented. I'm sure it's time for a change...maybe I'll try to box cutter blade this time

I thought about that, but I'm off work now and don't have access to a lathe. I guess I could have sanded the nut down but didn't think of that.

How do you get something as thick as a nickel to not interfere with the timing on the shell plate?

 

[dannyd]

106,723 rounds on my two LNL's I use a penny on the oldest one. Works fine.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I can't get away with that on mine, the castings must be a little different. Mine must be a little thicker down there.
It's running so good right now I'm not messing with it any further.
I just resized and primed 1300 9mms, worked fine.

 

[9mmepiphany]

How do you get something as thick as a nickel to not interfere with the timing on the shell plate?

I can't use anything thick, I will loose the timing on the down stroke... I can't advance my shell plate any more because the pawls will start catching down below.

I haven't encountered the issue of interference with the pawls...and I've used a quarter as well as a nickle as a stop for the primer ram. The ram does tend to put a pretty good dent in the surface of the coin.

If you are so inclined, you might check the timing of your pawls.

Have you tried the shell plate timing kit from Randall Bragg?
I thought my timing was pretty much on until I tried out his kit. It makes adjustment very easy.

I had a pawl screw that kept backing out, so I was adjusting them a lot...it gets old every 50 rounds when you're trying to load a 1k. I finally broke down and called Hornady and they sent me new screws (and springs)...apparently cleaning the screws tends to reduce their designed-in traction to retain your settings

 

[Reeferman]

I tried using things like dimes and such and had issues with timing. I use a .010” feeler gauge and when it starts to get a dimple I flip it over and when it gets a dimple I just cut the end off and re glue it. Been using the same one for several years and have about half of it left.

 

[SureLok]

Have you tried the shell plate timing kit from Randall Bragg?

What is this timing kit you speak of?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Have you tried the shell plate timing kit from Randall Bragg?

I'll look into this kit but I've been running the press since 2012 and running about 6k a year through it of 9mm alone and really haven't had any timing issues except that I have to keep the left pawl almost maxed out to get the shell plate to complete it's indexing on the down stroke.

I tried using things like dimes and such and had issues with timing. I use a .010” feeler gauge and when it starts to get a dimple I flip it over and when it gets a dimple I just cut the end off and re glue it. Been using the same one for several years and have about half of it left.

Yeah, sounds like mine. The castings aren't machined for a hard stop under the shell plate so the thickness of the castings are varying which will change the final distance the ram can be lowered. Mine apparently doesn't have the clearance that 9mmepipany's does.

Easy fix either way. I sanded mine down so I am getting .003" under flush and the last 1300 I primed yesterday were spot on.

I was cycling 100 at a time at around 25-30 rounds a minute with no problem, just resizing and priming only, the case feeder just ran continuously.
So it's running good.

I'll still look at the timing kit for curiosity sake.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Must be this one.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have to keep the right pawl almost maxed out to get the shell plate to complete it's indexing on the down stroke.

That doesn't sound right

Must be this one.

It is.

I also have his primer feed alignment tool, but didn't find it as useful. My primers were feeding reliably in 9mm...I prefer to prime my .38Spl cases on the Lee ACP to get consistent ignition in my tuned revolvers

 

[dannyd]

Must be this one.

I have and use that setup works great.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

That doesn't sound right

It's the left pawl not the right one. I corrected my post. I can't advance the pawl any more or it catches on something. It won't push the plate far enough by itself, it needs the detent balls to finish the rotation, the detent balls pull the plate right where it needs to be. Doesn't seem to cause a problem but I just don't like that it has no more adjustment. But in 10 years, hasn't needed any more adjustment either.
I have never had problem with the priming system since I've had it. Keep it blown out and it just works.
Now it works a little better as priming depth is a little more consistent than it was.
I've just never been able to time it to get the shell plate to advance far enough without the detent balls assistance. Been like that since day one.
It seems to run fine this way so I don't fret over it.
This timing kit won't help when the shell plate won't advance far enough to push past the shell plates detent balls position . I don't really understand why this kit is even needed if the detent balls are bringing the plate to it's final position and holding it there and the star wheel won't push the plate past that position anyways.
Can you adjust your timing to go to far on the down stroke?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Can you adjust your timing to go to far on the down stroke?

Yup, pretty easily. I can set it to push the shell plate pass the detent balls and beyond alignment with the primer slide

I have my left pawl adjusted to push the shell plate, on the down stroke, to exactly line up with the priming station. If I rotate the adjustment screw, for the left pawl, more counter-clockwise it pushes the shell plate more clock-wise. The right pawl is used to adjust rotation on the upstroke and center the cases in the die openings.

I'm going to assume that your pawls are oriented correctly with the sheer face pushing against the wheel and the inclined face trailing

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Yeah, every thing is in there right, it's run great for 10 years, but I've never got to compare it to someone elses. Despite how good it runs something doesn't sound right about it compared to yours. I'll look at it close tomorrow.

 

[Skgreen]

I can't use anything thick, I will loose the timing on the down stroke

I'm currently using (2) fender washers stacked on top of each other. (Added another one after I wore a decent-sized divot in the first one)
Didn't effect my timing. Must be a lot of lee-way in the manufacturing tolerances?