Hornady Lock and Load doesn't Lock or Load!

[Spartacus451]

Hornady is willing to have UPS pick up the press so they can evaluate it, then repair or replace it. All you have to do is box it up. I'd say that would satisfy me. YMMV.

I'm not a bank here to lend them money while they get it right. I don't want to have to go without the press indefinitely when I could have a 650 in a week and a guaranteed refund. I have been taken advantage of too many times to allow that to happen anymore.

 

[SDefender]

Personally, I would just send it back to MidwayUsa and get a Dillon 650. My LNL and the many accessory bushings are 100%; never an issue. It could be they have sold so many of these due to the free bullet offer that quality control has slipped.

 

[Luggernut]

I think you should be more patient. The service from Hornady has been great in my experience. I enjoy the machine thoroughly. Is it perfect? No but it makes great cartridges.

 

[Virginian]

You choose not to trust them, which is your right. But, my opinion is, that if you send the press to Hornady, along with whatever bushings you feel may not be right, they will send everything back to you in proper working order in a short time. For all the times you have been screwed by a company, I bet they have been screwed by a customer 50 times as many times, and that's why they will not send you a new press, frame, etc. first.
Impasse.
You may as well start boxing it up for Midway, and I think you are going to eat some shipping charges there.

 

[Idano]

I don't want to have to go without the press indefinitely when I could have a 650 in a week and a guaranteed refund.

Odds are you won't be happy with the 650 either since it is mechanically similar to the AP. IMO Hornady basically copied the 650 and both presses and companies are excellent!

 

[EddieCoyle]

Hey Ariel,

Either the bushings are bad, the inserts are out of spec, or both are in spec but at the extreme edge of their respective tolerance bands. Hornady can replace the inserts - not a do-it-yourself job.

Let me know if you'd like to try some "known good" bushings that I have.

They won't send you a frame. There's a lot on that press that you can't take apart easily. You won't be able to just swap your stuff onto their frame.

I think the fastest way to resolve this is to send the press and bushings back to Hornady. You'll probably have your press back before Midway could even issue you a refund.

Regards,

JF

 

[Spartacus451]

By frame I meant the press sans powder measure and the other parts that come with it. The bottom line for me is that I am not willing to further inconvenience myself on their behalf. Return and exchange periods exist for a reason. When I called up MidwayUSA they were nothing but helpful and they offered to exchange or refund it even though I didn't have the original packaging for some parts. They even offered to refund shipping! I'd exchange it if I didn't think I would end up with a press with the same problem.

The only acceptable response for a NIB press that doesn't work is immediate replacement with a working press that has had the QC and gauging that should have been done the first time. The fact that I need the leverage of a large buyer like MidwayUSA to get taken care of properly says a lot. I have been stuck in the lifetime warranty loop too many times to fall into it again.

Why do we hold the firearms industry to a completely different standard then we do the retail industry?

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

While I agree your press should work and should be fixed, I disagree with your thinking it should be replaced immediately from the manufacturer. If you buy a car and it isn't perfect, the company doesn't give you a new car. Same with the press.

Retailers, for convenience sake, often exchange items that customers aren't satisfied while they're still new and you have that opportunity to do so with MidwayUSA. More than likely they'll send it back to Hornady to be checked out, re manufactured, then repacked to be sold as "like new" by either Hornady or Midway.

That said, the manufacturer's warranty doesn't offer such a service and neither does any other manufacturer's warranty. But since you have the opportunity with the retailer to exchange it, do so.

Finally, being impatient and not allowing the manufacturer to correct the problem isn't allowing them to provide warranty service regardless of manufacture. You can buy another manufacturer's product, but if it has issues, you'll get yourself into another "I want a new one now" situation. Eventually, thee will be no one to get a new one from, as you'll have went through all the manufacturer's.

Bottom line for me is, even though I think you should insist on the correct dimension bushings, I don't think you're allowing the manufacturer to warranty their product.

 

[Master Blaster]

Finally, being impatient and not allowing the manufacturer to correct the problem isn't allowing them to provide warranty service regardless of manufacture. You can buy another manufacturer's product, but if it has issues, you'll get yourself into another "I want a new one now" situation. Eventually, thee will be no one to get a new one from, as you'll have went through all the manufacturer's.

Very Good advice, Dave is speaking from personal experience.

 

[Spartacus451]

My "free" bullets came today, I refused shipment and told UPS to send them back.

They had lost the UPC for the box of dies and sent my order back to me. I resubmitted it with a letter explaining that they had lost the UPC and that they had been stapled together when I sent them in and that the UPC they returned to me was not the same UPC I had submitted, it was on different cardboard stock.

Fast forward to today. They deposited my check for shipping of 1100 bullets but only sent me 100 bullets. I could tell from the size and weight of the box the UPS guy showed me. The remaining UPC that they had not lost was for the press so there should have been 1000 bullets and not 100.

I am glad I returned the press for a refund and got out while the getting was still good. All told I am still out 70 dollars but it a small price to pay to manage future risk.

 

[MinnMooney]

When I was but a nyophite L-N-L user, the same problem cropped up... the Case Activated Powder Drop would turn loose and then the whole unit would rise with the casing so no powder would drop.

DAH! I used the wrench that comes with the L-N-L unit and loaded 500 more shells w/o a problem. I imagine that an extra or oversized O-ring would also work but about 15ft/lbs of torque worked too.

Come on people, let's not create problems where no real problem exists. I see one thread contributer actually is sending his unit back due to the fact that he doesn't want to have to buy a 50cent O-ring. GMAB!

 

[Spartacus451]

I used the wrench that comes with the L-N-L unit and loaded 500 more shells w/o a problem. I imagine that an extra or oversized O-ring would also work but about 15ft/lbs of torque worked too.

My LnL did not come with a wrench. The die bushing does not have a surface on which to apply a wrench so I assume you used the lock ring.

DAH!

I tried that with my own wrench. Didn't do a thing.

Come on people, let's not create problems where no real problem exists.

Yeah and jerking me around on the free bullet deal isn't a problem either. Neither are the hours I have spent sending letters and waiting on the phone.

I see one thread contributer actually is sending his unit back due to the fact that he doesn't want to have to buy a 50cent O-ring. GMAB!

To my knowledge there is no such poster in this thread.

I can only report the facts of the matter. How to read and find meaning in them is up to the reader.

 

[David Wile]

Hey adweisbe,

Don't worry, you are doing the right thing - for you. From your very first post to your last, it is obvious you will never be satisfied with the Hornady machine, no matter what they do to make you happy. I wonder, however, what you will do when you order a Dillon or some other machine, find a problem with it, and then go through the same thing with that manufacturer? Dillon and Hornady produce really good machines, and they usually do a pretty good job of fixing things for the customer. Some customers, however, just refuse to be satisfied.

I have had a Hornady L&L since they first came out about 15 years ago, and I have not had any personal experience with Hornady's warranty service. That is because I have never had any part break on my machine - none. And, no, I have never had any problem with any of the 30+ bushings I own - they all lock in place and stay there until I take them out.

I loaded shells for three decades on single stage presses. When I first bought my L&L, I had a pretty good understanding of reloading and how reloading machines worked. After unpacking the L&L, I read the manual quite a few times before I ever attached it to my bench. Once attached to my bench, I spent a lot of time reading the manual and observing how each process worked as the handle was moved down and up. When I first started to reload some cases, things went pretty smoothly right from the start. I learned about the primer feeder sticking and the problem with getting the last one or two primers to feed. Both problems were obvious, and I was able to smooth out the primer feed process, and I came up with a solution to the last few primers in the tube. The machine is a good machine, but it will not satisfy those who refuse to listen and learn.

There are many folks here who are very happy with their Hornady and their Dillon machines. If one listens to them, they can help one with a new machine.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[jeepmor]

The thicker o-ring is probably the quickest DIY path for a long term fix w/o involving Hornady. I just snug mine with a pair of pliers. I don't muscle it in, but it is tighter than I can get them by hand to make them stay put.

I really like the system and converted my single stage to them and really like their repeatability. I know some of you are fine with just using the lock rings, but my RCBS lock rings still slip more than I like. I can jam nut them into the LNL bushing and they don't move.

Also, I removed the soft brass set screws and replaced with steel ones and a small BB fishing sinker between the die body threads and the set screw tip.

There are set screws with soft plastic faces available that'll do the same thing, I just couldn't find any.

hope this helps.

jeepmor

 

[Phil A]

adweisbe
I am glad I returned the press for a refund and got out while the getting was still good. All told I am still out 70 dollars but it a small price to pay to manage future risk.

I would suggest a replacement press such as a 550 or a turret. There is less to go wrong mechanically along with a lower risk of ranting. - Phil

 

[Shoney]

I did some searches on the posts by adweisbe.

Seems he is an expert, long time Dillon owner.

Is adweisbe perpetrating a hoax here????? Looks that way to me.

 

[pinkymingeo]

There has been a thread about O-ring fixes (which works), and I know from experience that if you tighten with a wrench on the lock ring a nuclear blast won't loosen the LnL bushing. I also know that Hornady has excellent customer service. They did exactly what Dillon would do, working with the customer until it was apparent he couldn't fix the problem, then offering shipping for a factory fix. The bullet mixup should be taken care of easily with a phone call. I don't get it, either.

 

[1911NM]

I am very pleased with my LNL-AP. Might one call Shenanigans?

 

[David Wile]

Hey Shoney,

After reading your post, I also read adweisbe's prior posts. He apparently has the same problems and complaints about Dillon as he has with Hornady. From what he has said in prior posts, he does not sound like much of an expert or long on experience. In one October 2007 post, he stated he was 23 years of age, and in another October post he states:

"I have an SDB. I size and prime on a Lee challenger with the Auto Prime II. This seats them to the bottom of the pocket every single time. You have little to no mechanical advantage when priming on most progressives. I did find that CCI primers were harder to seat to the bottom of the pocket and I now try and use Winchesters. Running already sized cases through the SDB takes far less effort, but the SDB harder to work then the 650.

When I called Dillon they just told me to lean harder. I hurt myself quite badly trying to get the press to seat the primers and it tooks months to heal."

He hurt himself quite badly seating primers on his Dillon press and it took months for him to heal? Get serious!

Is he perpetrating a hoax here? I don't know what he is doing, but it seems clear to me that this young man is not very mechanically minded. He obviously has problems with both Dillon and Hornady progressives, and he makes disparaging comments about customer service from both. Personal maturity may be a problem here.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[rino451]

I will say that that you'll probably still get the 1000 bullets. Mine came two days after the 100 round boxes did.

 

[hornadylnl]

First thing for the bullet deal. If you'd have spent 41 cents more on another stamp and written a second check, you wouldn't have had the problem with the bullets. Whoever opens the envelopes doesn't know to inspect both side of each upc to see if someone might have stapled two upc's together. That will be true of anyone handling rebates, etc.

I have an LNL with around 10k rounds loaded on it. My die bushings lock down really tight. When I tighten the lockring down to the bushing, I have to use a wrench to get the die back out.

Next, I don't know what level of perfection you expect out of such a complex piece of equipment for under $400. Give a machinist a block of steel and tell him to do $400 worth of machining to it. You'd be appalled at how little metal has been cut off of it.

I've had to call Hornady's customer service a couple times. When I bought my press, I bought two used shell plates off of ebay before I knew that Hornady had made some improvements to their newer shellplates. If I had known that, I would have not bought the used ones and bought new ones. They went ahead and warrantied the plates and gave me brand new ones.

I talked to Bob Palmer personally about some adjustment issues and other stuff and he was as courteous as you could ever want from a customer service guy. I got the distinct impression that he is actually a guy that works with and on Hornady equipment, not some guy who sits at a computer with drop down troubleshooting menus and has no idea what reloading is.

I had some case feeder issues and described to him my problem. He sent me all the parts to completely replace my escapement and it has cured my problem. I've always received great customer service and expect to in the future if I ever need it again.

The first rule to buying a blue press is to never admit to a problem with it. Any of us with any experience reloading knows that it isn't true, but the blue guys sure would like us to believe that their presses are absolutely flawless.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm sure he will come on here and complain about over all length inconsistancies due to tool head slop once he gets his 550 or 650.

I'm sure Dillon or Hornady would love to make a press much more reliable than what they do now and have the full capability of doing. Only problem is, is that nobody would buy it because it would cost $1000+. Reloaders are a very minute percentage of the population, thus a very small market. I'm guessing that the number of reloaders who are willing to spend $300+ on a press setup are less than 20% of people who reload. It's a catch 22.

 

[Spartacus451]

I'm sure Dillon or Hornady would love to make a press much more reliable than what they do now and have the full capability of doing. Only problem is, is that nobody would buy it because it would cost $1000+.

Oddly enough my 650 cost around $1050 fully equipped and shipped. I think you may be on to something here.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I just read the last adweisbe post, and I am dumbfounded. I know he may only be 23 years of age, and I may be a really old person, but I don't think I acted like this guy when I was 23 years of age. Come to think of it, thinking back about my two daughters growing up, I can state clearly that this guy's actions make my two daughters seem like they were some kind of rocket scientists when they were 23 years of age. I have four grandchildren from eight to fourteen years of age, and all of them seem to exhibit more maturity than adweisbe. I think some people are just not happy unless they are telling everyone else how unhappy they are.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[hornadylnl]

I was talking about the base price of the press, not case feeders, extra caliber setups, etc. Who would fork out $1000 for a press only, no case feeder, dies, toolheads, powder measures, etc.?