Zerodefect
member
Might want to look at Colt again. Very reliable. Right up there with standard BCM's.
RRA isn't on that level.
How about some brands of better quality AR 15's?
- Thread starter Rule3
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Might want to look at Colt again. Very reliable. Right up there with standard BCM's.
RRA isn't on that level.
oneounceload
member
So please explain why. Been away from these for many years, considering getting one in lieu of another shotgun so looking for more than just saying "Mine is great"
TIA
Zerodefect
member
My 6920 is 100% reliable. Likely the most reliable firearm I have with serious round counts. All on Federal ammo and Pmags.
It works, and has the basic good parts. BCG is good. M4 feed ramps. Mil buffer tube and H buffer. Carbine gas is a little harsh, but reliable. Short stroking is the least of you worries. Mine has a perfect ejection pattern at 4 oclock
It works, and has the basic good parts. BCG is good. M4 feed ramps. Mil buffer tube and H buffer. Carbine gas is a little harsh, but reliable. Short stroking is the least of you worries. Mine has a perfect ejection pattern at 4 oclock
Bolt material/construction methods
Carrier material
Buffer weight
Receiver extension diameter and material
Barrel material/twist rate/treatment
Established reputation
Figure out which specs you care most about, or don't care about, what twist rate would work best for you, etc.
rogerjames
member
I've posted this before. It looks like a lot of info, but once you start reading it's really quite simple and will help you be an informed consumer. https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html
C-grunt
Member
The 6920 8 the Gold Standard for ARs. I am one of the people who are called a snob when it comes to ARs and I say anyone who thinks the 6920 is a sub standard rifle is a fool. I've never talked with anyone who is truly knowledgeable about the AR15 say the Colt 6920 is a bad weapon .I don't care what the AR snobs think, my Colt LE6920MP-B for $869 is a great gun and a darn good buy:
http://grabagun.com/colt-mfg-co-inc-le6920mpb-car-5-56-16-1-30rd.html
Not to mention my $559 S&W M&P Sport either.
I've found one of the biggest factors that people use to determine quality is fit and finish. As long as the anodizing is all the exact same color and the receivers are so tight you can barely get them apart its great. In fact a lot of top tier companies have a disclaimer that states the anodizing might not match. They dont have to make them perfect because the people who buy bcm and dd spend that much because they use them not because its pretty. Ive yet to see an ar with a couple thousand rounds through look nee. Most people won't shoot theirs enough to notice the difference between brands. It does not make the dpms the same as a bcm just because you couldn't break it.
A rock river with a stainless barrel might shoot .5 moa groups but when it erodes the throat in a couple thousand rounds the barrel is done. So just because its more accurate doesn't make it better quality than a CHF barrel that will last 20,000 rounds. Just because it has a fancy 2 stage trigger that feels better than a mil spec doesn't make it better when it can't reliably ignite hard primers. Quality precision guns are not the same as quality combat guns. Things would be so much easier if people could differentiate between the two.
A rock river with a stainless barrel might shoot .5 moa groups but when it erodes the throat in a couple thousand rounds the barrel is done. So just because its more accurate doesn't make it better quality than a CHF barrel that will last 20,000 rounds. Just because it has a fancy 2 stage trigger that feels better than a mil spec doesn't make it better when it can't reliably ignite hard primers. Quality precision guns are not the same as quality combat guns. Things would be so much easier if people could differentiate between the two.
PowerG
Member
Add to Warp's list the quality control procedures Colt uses on the LE's. Over the years Colt and the government have identified processes that contribute to the reliability of the guns. Mil-spec is more than material standards and dimensional tolerances, it's also an inspection and test plan that is designed to identify parts that could fail before it happens, and this stuff costs money. Each barrel fires a special high pressure round and is then put through Magnetic Particle Inspection to look for material flaws, and that's just one of the tests. The accuracy may not be on a level acceptable to a bench rest shooter, but that's not the intended function of the guns, it's having one that is as reliable as possible, one that will work when it's needed. Weapons that fail in combat can get people killed, and the LE series Colts are made to pretty much the same standards as M4's supplied to the military (barrel length and an extra setting on the safety differentiate them). Other companies do some or all of the testing required, some do it on representative samples, others don't do it at all. Compared to most other brands, for a rifle that may be used in a situation where your life depends on it, at present price levels, the Colts are tremendous bargains IMO. If you have other intended uses, then the Colt may not be the best option.
the OP, Rule3, did not state whether this was meant as a combat rifle, a defense rifle, or a competition rifle. All he said was 'quality'. Until the OP is more clear, all is just speculation as to what will best fit his needs.
Bringing this back from the dead files
I actually did not say as I just was looking for a Quality AR 15 for general range use. I am not into competition, not going into battle, Just shooting at the range and SD at home if I should ever need a rifle over all my handguns.
Now that Colt as File for Chapter 11 (again) are they still on the list?? My RR ARNS LAR 15 Operator is an excellent rifle, my only issue with it is it is a bit heavy. It weighs in at 8lbs with no optics,
I would prefer a lighter one also which I would keep with just open sights, so not sure if a thinner barrel will be as accurate
Bringing this back from the dead files
I actually did not say as I just was looking for a Quality AR 15 for general range use. I am not into competition, not going into battle, Just shooting at the range and SD at home if I should ever need a rifle over all my handguns.
Now that Colt as File for Chapter 11 (again) are they still on the list?? My RR ARNS LAR 15 Operator is an excellent rifle, my only issue with it is it is a bit heavy. It weighs in at 8lbs with no optics,
I would prefer a lighter one also which I would keep with just open sights, so not sure if a thinner barrel will be as accurate
Lord Teapot
Member
happy with my m&p15
if i wanted to get a higher quality gun i'd look into FN or colt.
if i wanted to get a higher quality gun i'd look into FN or colt.
Stephen1956
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
- Messages
- 49
I bought one from a company Republic Firearms out of Ohio it was like $503.00 with shipping it's all mil-spec 1:8 twist all Anderson upper and lower it shoots ok about a inch MOA at 100 yards but at that price you can add other things and it's already lubed when you buy it which was nice. The buffer tube though was commercial but they replaced it with the correct tube so while not expensive decent for the money. My son likes it out shot his $1700 Yankee Hill and M&P-15 just saying never know.
NWcityguy2
Member
I'm surprised no one mentioned JP Precision. Anyway...
These conversations always go downhill. What sets apart most of the brands being mentioned here compared to most of the brands being dismissed is high round count training. But for the most part, it's all talk. Every AR thread out there has people talking about round counts that they themselves aren't even close too. If people were honest with others (and themselves) about their guns actual round count, they would realize that most any AR will do the job (of shooting bullets in the real world).
All the talk of combat zones is, and always will be a distraction when discussing civilian shooting.
These conversations always go downhill. What sets apart most of the brands being mentioned here compared to most of the brands being dismissed is high round count training. But for the most part, it's all talk. Every AR thread out there has people talking about round counts that they themselves aren't even close too. If people were honest with others (and themselves) about their guns actual round count, they would realize that most any AR will do the job (of shooting bullets in the real world).
All the talk of combat zones is, and always will be a distraction when discussing civilian shooting.
The Colt 6920 was a standard for a long time. Some makers exceed that now in some ways, but up until recently, I'd tell anyone who wanted to buy a great AR to buy a Colt and be done with it. Colt also had an edge on some other great brands because you can literally buy one at a Walmart. There are other great makers to be sure, but for a guy with $800 and a Walmart nearby, the Colt was the obvious choice.
My current fear with Colt is their bancruptcy issue. If you can run a business that makes AR-15's into the ground while everyone and his brother wants to buy as many AR-15's as you can make at twice the normal price, then there is something wrong there.
But management aside, I'm worried now that quality will slip once accountants start asking "is this very expensive material really necessary to make this little part?"
When the shakiness from that blows over, I'll consider Colt again. They can make a good rifle.
The question is, will they keep making good rifles?
Well... if I can buy a rifle that will run for much longer with less trouble for the same price as one that won't, I'll buy the better rifle for the same money. Round counts are a way to assess that durability, even if you might never reach them.
My current fear with Colt is their bancruptcy issue. If you can run a business that makes AR-15's into the ground while everyone and his brother wants to buy as many AR-15's as you can make at twice the normal price, then there is something wrong there.
But management aside, I'm worried now that quality will slip once accountants start asking "is this very expensive material really necessary to make this little part?"
When the shakiness from that blows over, I'll consider Colt again. They can make a good rifle.
The question is, will they keep making good rifles?
NWcityguy2 said:
Well... if I can buy a rifle that will run for much longer with less trouble for the same price as one that won't, I'll buy the better rifle for the same money. Round counts are a way to assess that durability, even if you might never reach them.
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NWcityguy2
Member
Once again, you are talking while using the word "if". I've seen plenty of ARs go down while shooting, including Colts.
69Precision
Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2015
- Messages
- 92
+1. I have a rock river lower with a cmmg upper. I like it and it shoots great. I have no need whatsoever for another AR but Colt prices right now are very tempting. Not saying Colts are better, but they will hold their value well, especially if(when) things get silly like they did a few years back.
dogtown tom
Member
I guarantee that what you have is in no way "mil-spec".
Only Colt and FN have the technical data package from the DOD.
NWcityguy2
Member
I've got 6k through my PSA and 8k through my hand built competition rifle. They are lasting a good long time. The PSA was about $200 less than a Colt. My competition rifle ran me about $900, but there really is no comparison between it and a Colt.
But you still don't get it, I'm talking in specifics, you're talking in speculation. Which brings me to what I already said...
But you still don't get it, I'm talking in specifics, you're talking in speculation. Which brings me to what I already said...
TexasPatriot.308
Member
I haven't read thru all the posts, but Wyndham, the original makers of Bushmaster are a helluva gun for the price...same workers brought back by their old boss after seeing his Bushmaster name brand sink along with Remington and the other companies bought by Cerebrus.
This is worth looking at. http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/patrolzero.html
NWcityguy2 said:
No, I do get it.
For the prices PSA rifles sell for and the mostly positive reviews I see, I think they're great. I'd buy one and possibly never know the difference between it and a more expensive rifle. They're in M&P Sport in price range but approaching much more expensive rifles in the components that go into them, and sometimes even exceeding them (in particular, the FN proprietary steel barrels with 2x thick chrome lining). IIRC, FN's contract stipulates a price of under $700 per rifle, so we all know it can be done even on the civilian market for under $1,000 per rifle.
But if a Colt 6920 and a PSA 16" M4 clone were sitting side by side with only $25 difference in price, would you buy the Colt or the PSA? I've seen that at some gun shops where they count on the customer not knowing the difference.
Price doesn't mean everything, but buyers also have to know what they're buying, how much it should cost, and why it costs what it does. Many guys here do. Some newer guys don't.
That's all I got. I'm off to the range with a couple .22's and a new-to-me revolver.
Peace.
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